VOGONS


First post, by Pickle

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I recently been attempting to upgrade my socket 7 machine from a pentium 200 mmx to a k6-2 500. Problem was that i was having lockups during the win98 bootup.
Tried messing with FSB, Multiplier, removing cards, memory, etc. Caps still look good.
I finally worked my way to pulling the supply and switching to a 300 w supply my socket a athlon uses. I have everything back in the system and it seems pretty stable with it. I probably should have figured this out sooner since i was trying to use a pitiful supply from a compaq celeron (amperage is pretty low).

So i needed another supply and i know of the issue with these older machines needing more power on the 3.3/5 rails. So i picked up a new EVGA W1 500 w supply. Had the highest amps and watt's for those rails. Its 3.3 @ 24 A / 5V @ 20 A at a max of 120 W. I still had a some lockups with the EVGA and the cabling would be hitting my 5.25 floppy drive.
I would prefer leaving the 300 w supply withe the athlon, but i think it more stable in the socket 7. Its rated for 30 A on one of the lines (maybe 5 V).

Other odd thing and its happening with all the supplies the socket 7 cpu vcore is off by 0.1 V. So currently im set for 2.1 V, and reporting 2.2 V. I actually thought this might have been the problem all along, but the lockups still happened.

Putting the EVGA in the socket A today and it worked ok, but the bios monitor showed the -5 line at -6 V. I dont know that I should really care about it. Im aware that this really is only needed for older isa sound cards. I dont think PCI cards would need it.
Im wondering if i should just forget about it and turn the -5 V monitor off?
Edit: I recalled one pin isnt populated and if im reading the pinout right the -5 V pin isnt even present. So the monitor must just be maxing out.

I understand the best solution would another older supply, but it was more convenient to try the EVGA supply.

Edit2: I seem to have spoken too soon, the machine locked up on me with with 300 W supply. I dont get what went wrong. Seems like the obvious choice is the cpu since that was the change.
But i would have thought it would improved lowering the fsb/clk. I also dont get any problems if it does boot.
I wonder if something like the caps on the motherboard might be an issue. I suppose i might have to put the pentium back in and see what happens.

Socket 7:
Asus P5 99VM with 98 mb
Voodoo 3
Awe 64
1.2 mb floppy 5.25
PCI NIC / DVD drive / CF adapter

Socket A:
Asus A7V 133 with Athlon 1.2 ghz / 512 mb
ATI 9600
Audigy 2 ZS and Aureal Vortex 2
PCI NIC / DVD drive / CF adapter

Reply 2 of 6, by Horun

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If you are using the Hardware Monitor in the BIOS do not trust those values. Best to use a good Digital Voltmeter to check.
If all are withing 5% you are good to go (yes I know the -12v and -5v can be +/- 10% but for practical purposes stated 5%).
So +5 should be 0.25v +/-, +12v should be 0.6v +/-, 3.3 should be 0.165v +/-. Those are the critical ones on ATX...

For reference Socket A and the lower Athlons need near 30A on 5v so you need something that gives 150watts or better on 5v...the higher end one need near 40A.
Neither PSU you have can give that AFAIK see this: New PSU on a AMD Athlon build?

Hate posting a reply and then have to edit it because it made no sense 😁 First computer was an IBM 3270 workstation with CGA monitor. Stuff: https://archive.org/details/@horun

Reply 3 of 6, by Pickle

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yeah im aware that the bios isnt the best. I did already use my multimeter on the 5 V and 12 V. I know i can check vcore off the socket, but im not sure if id catch anything wrong since the problem occurs during boot. I didnt measure any of the atx lines, but i probably should.
the 300 watt supply was rated for 30 A on the 5 V rail, so maybe i should keep it with the athlon. I didnt think it would be that high and 20 A would have been enough. This is the original supply that i had with that PC since 1998 and its been pretty stable. If i move it back then no worries about the -5 V line missing.
But if i move the EVGA back to the socket 7, i dont think the awe 64 needed -5 V. I could check for the isa pin to be sure.

Reply 4 of 6, by bZbZbZ

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My (likely incomplete) understanding is that many modern power supplies derive the 3.3V and 5V rails from the 12V. The result is that when 12V is insufficiently loaded (i.e. in a retro PC that doesn't use 12V much), the 5V output is inconsistent and/or inadequate. Also, "inadequate" might not just mean too high or too low... it could also mean "excessive variation over time" or "excessive variation in response to changes in load".

Perhaps the K6-2 doesn't just draw more power, it might also be more sensitive to any/all of the above criteria. Put this together and it's possible that a 500W modern power supply that claims 20A on the 5V rail isn't delivering the right quality of 5V power for the K6-2 given the lack of 12V load.

My own experience is that a Pentium III 700 MHz (Slot 1, Intel 440BX) refused to boot with a modern Corsair power supply (label claimed 5V @ 20A) but it runs fine with generic 250W unit from back in the day. I'm currently using a 350W old school Enermax EG365P-VE in that system. It was disappointing because I've seen YouTube videos of others (eg Phil, VictorBart) running retro computers using similar modern power supplies but it didn't work out for me. I don't have fancy equipment like an oscilloscope, so sometimes it's just trial and error I guess.

Reply 6 of 6, by Pickle

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so i have the enermax connected. First i opened it up checked caps and cleaned it out with the blower. Everything looked fine.

https://imgur.com/a/q2e8CNI

boy this thing is loaded with cables, atx, at, molex, sata....Barely fit in the case 😀
so i also hooked up some ide drives and measured the rails and looked good. Hooked it up to the socket 7 pc and at first it seemed good. I also measured some points in the cpu regulation and saw about 2.25 v.

Tried it a little later and win98 boot lockups occured. I later had a longer session and it ran rock solid. Im not sure what triggers the lockup.

The only other idea i have left is mabye its the PS2 mouse. If i set through the driver init the last is mouse.drv. I also have had it boot to windows but say it couldnt detect the mouse.
I am running on a KVM, so maybe ill try a different input set for the cables.

I do like this supply though and really thinking to get another for the athlon tbird.