gmaverick2k wrote on 2023-10-16, 20:56:

fosterwj03 wrote on 2022-02-05, 15:18:

My ultimate Win98 build has a Core i5-3750, Intel B75 motherboard, Radeon x800 XL, Via SATA card, Via USB 1.1/2.0 card, Realtek NIC, and Sound Blaster Live! Value. Rock stable, and plays games quite well. It has no DOS sound compatibility, but I have other systems for DOS.

I prefer the x800 XL to my GeForce 6800. The Radeon is much faster in Win98. The GeForce drivers also have all sorts of stability issues.

Do you have a guide for this. Hitting a wall trying this with b75m, x800xt, I5-2400, 1gb ddr3, SSD -_-

I don't really have a guide per se. Retro rockets take a lot of trial and error to get just right. Shoot, I recently spent a week trying to figure out why an Audigy 2ZS wouldn't work right on my B75 motherboard when a Sound Blaster Live! worked just fine. In the end, I gave up and decided to use an Audigy 1 with Windows Me/98SE and the Sound Blaster Live! with Windows 98FE. Oddly, the Audigy 1 VXD drivers caused all sorts of problems with Windows 9x on this platform while the WDM divers worked perfectly.

Anyway, here's a general order I perform on a fresh install:

1) Key BIOS settings:
- CPU Cores: Auto
- Memory Timings: XMP
- Primary Video: PCIE
- Drive controller: AHCI
- USB 2.0: Enabled
- USB 3.0: Smart Auto
- Onboard LAN: Disabled
- Onboard Audio: Disabled
- Serial Port(s): Disabled
- Parallel Port: Disabled

2) Partition and format the SSD. I recommend a primary FAT32 partition no larger than 64GB (you can make larger partitions, but I've had problems installing to larger ones). I create two FAT32 partitions (with an extended partition with a single logical drive) on the SSD. I put all of the installation disks, drivers, software, and media I use on the second partition using a second computer.

3) Boot the target computer using a Windows 98 boot CD. If the primary partition needs a format for a clean install, I run the "FORMAT C: /Q" command. Keep the CD in the drive.

4) Change the command prompt to the drive and folder of the Windows 98 installation files. Run the "SETUP /P i" command (you can use other switches as well) to prevent Windows 98 from installing the ACPI drivers that likely cause boot failures. Run through the first round of installation until the first reboot.

5) Optional for greater than 1.5GB of RAM. Boot again from the CD. Change the command prompt to the C:\Windows\Command directory and run "EDIT C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM.INI". In the editor, move the cursor to the [386Enh] section. Add the line "MaxPhysPage=30000". Save the file and exit the editor. This will allow Windows 98 to boot with more than 1.5GB of RAM. Alternately, you can run Rloew's 4GB RAM patch at this point, but I do that later. Reboot without the CD in the drive.

6) Complete the Windows 98 installation. You should eventually get to the Windows desktop. I check the Device Manager first thing to see what hardware the installation program found.

7) Run the "Add/Remove Hardware" wizard, and manually install Rloew's AHCI driver from the "Hard Drive Controllers" section of the wizard. If your board has 6 SATA ports, use the 6-port driver. Otherwise use the 4-port driver.

8 ) If you had the "PCI Bus" listed in the Device Manager, skip to the next step. If you didn't, restart the "Add/Remove Hardware" wizard. Manually install the PCI Bus driver from the "System Devices" section. Complete the wizard, and Windows will begin detecting PCI devices. Feel free to install any devices for which you have drivers except sound and graphics.

9) Open the Device Manager, and "Update Drivers" for any remaining devices except the sound card and Graphics card. Keep in mind that some devices (like the SMBus and Intel Management Engine in my case) may not have drivers. The computer will function properly without them.

10) Run the NUSB 3.3 package for Windows 98FE or the NUSB 3.6 package for Windows 98SE. If NUSB doesn't start the hardware wizard, go back into Device Manager to manually install the drivers for "Standard Enhanced USB Controller" for all of the listed USB devices. In my case, the USB 3.0 ports are listed twice and only one of the entries works with the USB 2.0 drivers. Also, the NUSB drivers require USB 1.0 drivers even though the computer may not have any USB 1.0 controllers. I install "Standard USB Controller" drivers to the USB 3.0 ports just to force USB 1.0 drivers to install on the hard drive.

11) Install DirectX 9.0b (required for the ATI X800 series).

12) Run the sound card installation program. I like the base programs for my Sound Blasters, so I run the main install program for both drivers and apps. I let the program handle both.

13) Install IE 5.5 or IE 6.0 SP1. The ATI control panel uses IE elements, so it works best to have an updated copy of IE installed.

14) Install the Catalyst Drivers and Control Panel 6.2 package. If Windows doesn't detect the graphics card after the next reboot, change the resolution and color depth in the Display Properties and allow the computer to reboot. If that doesn't work, you might need to boot into Safe Mode and remove all of the graphics entries in Device Manger. Reboot again in this case and let the hardware wizard detect the X800.

15) Exit Windows to the DOS prompt. Install Rloew's 4GB RAM Patch if desired. After installing that, I change the line in SYSTEM.INI to "MaxPhysPage=70000" to use 1.7GB of RAM for stability.

15) Complete any additional software installations and personalize Windows.

That's my basic procedure. I mess with my hardware a lot, so I end up troubleshooting quite a bit. I still execute these steps in roughly the same order. Good luck.

Edit: I should also note that my B75 motherboard won't boot Windows 9x with any connected USB devices (including the keyboard and mouse) after I install the NUSB package. I haven't figured out why yet. I make sure to unplug them before boot or after a reboot, and then I plug USB devices back in once I get to the Windows desktop. Weird!

fosterwj03 wrote on 2023-10-17, 01:06:

I don't really have a guide per se. Retro rockets take a lot of trial and error to get just right. Shoot, I recently spent a w […]
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gmaverick2k wrote on 2023-10-16, 20:56:

fosterwj03 wrote on 2022-02-05, 15:18:

My ultimate Win98 build has a Core i5-3750, Intel B75 motherboard, Radeon x800 XL, Via SATA card, Via USB 1.1/2.0 card, Realtek NIC, and Sound Blaster Live! Value. Rock stable, and plays games quite well. It has no DOS sound compatibility, but I have other systems for DOS.

I prefer the x800 XL to my GeForce 6800. The Radeon is much faster in Win98. The GeForce drivers also have all sorts of stability issues.

Do you have a guide for this. Hitting a wall trying this with b75m, x800xt, I5-2400, 1gb ddr3, SSD -_-

I don't really have a guide per se. Retro rockets take a lot of trial and error to get just right. Shoot, I recently spent a week trying to figure out why an Audigy 2ZS wouldn't work right on my B75 motherboard when a Sound Blaster Live! worked just fine. In the end, I gave up and decided to use an Audigy 1 with Windows Me/98SE and the Sound Blaster Live! with Windows 98FE. Oddly, the Audigy 1 VXD drivers caused all sorts of problems with Windows 9x on this platform while the WDM divers worked perfectly.

Anyway, here's a general order I perform on a fresh install:

1) Key BIOS settings:
- CPU Cores: Auto
- Memory Timings: XMP
- Primary Video: PCIE
- Drive controller: AHCI
- USB 2.0: Enabled
- USB 3.0: Smart Auto
- Onboard LAN: Disabled
- Onboard Audio: Disabled
- Serial Port(s): Disabled
- Parallel Port: Disabled

2) Partition and format the SSD. I recommend a primary FAT32 partition no larger than 64GB (you can make larger partitions, but I've had problems installing to larger ones). I create two FAT32 partitions (with an extended partition with a single logical drive) on the SSD. I put all of the installation disks, drivers, software, and media I use on the second partition using a second computer.

3) Boot the target computer using a Windows 98 boot CD. If the primary partition needs a format for a clean install, I run the "FORMAT C: /Q" command. Keep the CD in the drive.

4) Change the command prompt to the drive and folder of the Windows 98 installation files. Run the "SETUP /P i" command (you can use other switches as well) to prevent Windows 98 from installing the ACPI drivers that likely cause boot failures. Run through the first round of installation until the first reboot.

5) Optional for greater than 1.5GB of RAM. Boot again from the CD. Change the command prompt to the C:\Windows\Command directory and run "EDIT C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM.INI". In the editor, move the cursor to the [386Enh] section. Add the line "MaxPhysPage=30000". Save the file and exit the editor. This will allow Windows 98 to boot with more than 1.5GB of RAM. Alternately, you can run Rloew's 4GB RAM patch at this point, but I do that later. Reboot without the CD in the drive.

6) Complete the Windows 98 installation. You should eventually get to the Windows desktop. I check the Device Manager first thing to see what hardware the installation program found.

7) Run the "Add/Remove Hardware" wizard, and manually install Rloew's AHCI driver from the "Hard Drive Controllers" section of the wizard. If your board has 6 SATA ports, use the 6-port driver. Otherwise use the 4-port driver.

8 ) If you had the "PCI Bus" listed in the Device Manager, skip to the next step. If you didn't, restart the "Add/Remove Hardware" wizard. Manually install the PCI Bus driver from the "System Devices" section. Complete the wizard, and Windows will begin detecting PCI devices. Feel free to install any devices for which you have drivers except sound and graphics.

9) Open the Device Manager, and "Update Drivers" for any remaining devices except the sound card and Graphics card. Keep in mind that some devices (like the SMBus and Intel Management Engine in my case) may not have drivers. The computer will function properly without them.

10) Run the NUSB 3.3 package for Windows 98FE or the NUSB 3.6 package for Windows 98SE. If NUSB doesn't start the hardware wizard, go back into Device Manager to manually install the drivers for "Standard Enhanced USB Controller" for all of the listed USB devices. In my case, the USB 3.0 ports are listed twice and only one of the entries works with the USB 2.0 drivers. Also, the NUSB drivers require USB 1.0 drivers even though the computer may not have any USB 1.0 controllers. I install "Standard USB Controller" drivers to the USB 3.0 ports just to force USB 1.0 drivers to install on the hard drive.

11) Install DirectX 9.0b (required for the ATI X800 series).

12) Run the sound card installation program. I like the base programs for my Sound Blasters, so I run the main install program for both drivers and apps. I let the program handle both.

13) Install IE 5.5 or IE 6.0 SP1. The ATI control panel uses IE elements, so it works best to have an updated copy of IE installed.

14) Install the Catalyst Drivers and Control Panel 6.2 package. If Windows doesn't detect the graphics card after the next reboot, change the resolution and color depth in the Display Properties and allow the computer to reboot. If that doesn't work, you might need to boot into Safe Mode and remove all of the graphics entries in Device Manger. Reboot again in this case and let the hardware wizard detect the X800.

15) Exit Windows to the DOS prompt. Install Rloew's 4GB RAM Patch if desired. After installing that, I change the line in SYSTEM.INI to "MaxPhysPage=70000" to use 1.7GB of RAM for stability.

15) Complete any additional software installations and personalize Windows.

That's my basic procedure. I mess with my hardware a lot, so I end up troubleshooting quite a bit. I still execute these steps in roughly the same order. Good luck.

Edit: I should also note that my B75 motherboard won't boot Windows 9x with any connected USB devices (including the keyboard and mouse) after I install the NUSB package. I haven't figured out why yet. I make sure to unplug them before boot or after a reboot, and then I plug USB devices back in once I get to the Windows desktop. Weird!

Thank you for this write-up, appreciate it. I've bruteforced using SSD with image of time computers backup editing files on the fly in win10 and transferring rloews sata and mem patches. I nuked the current devices by by deleting hkey local machine enumerator. Only issue is graphics card not detected. Looks like I'm forced to do clean install.

By “Ultimate 98 computer” I mean a good gaming computer for playing Win98 era games.
I want to use a Voodoo-3-3000 AGP card because thats what I have.
Or I can use a Nvidia card.

What DirectX version should I use ?
SP3 ?

Should I use a Motherboard with Intel Chipset or AMD or VIA ?

Which CPU do I need for Very Good acceptable game play performance ?

I am NOT familiar with all the games of this Era so I am not sure about what hardware to select ?

I want Very good game compatibility too.

and.... done. Used Time computers image I have (64gb image of sd card using windiskimager onto 120gb ssd so it shrinks it to 64gb) - transplanted win98 😁
only have 1 pci slot on this motherboard (GA-B75M-D3P), so now onto the ballache that is the sound card.
Was getting low transfer speeds so had to hunt for loew's AHCI for hard disk files, now fast speed
for install, really, really, really important to add PCI bus then click no each time for restart untill all new hardware deteceted is found. Last time i didn't do that and win98 wouldn't allow this process to restart detecting hardware automatically even after removing PCI Bus.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2023-10-17, 11:53:

By “Ultimate 98 computer” I mean a good gaming computer for playing Win98 era games. I want to use a Voodoo-3-3000 AGP card beca […]
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By “Ultimate 98 computer” I mean a good gaming computer for playing Win98 era games.
I want to use a Voodoo-3-3000 AGP card because thats what I have.
Or I can use a Nvidia card.

What DirectX version should I use ?
SP3 ?

Should I use a Motherboard with Intel Chipset or AMD or VIA ?

Which CPU do I need for Very Good acceptable game play performance ?

I am NOT familiar with all the games of this Era so I am not sure about what hardware to select ?

I want Very good game compatibility too.

slot 1 440bx + pentium iii + isa soundcard 1868f

Installed sounblaster live! sb0220 and tried to install Joseph_Joestar's 5 step audigy 2zs drivers but kept hard locking, tried the vortex 2 installed nocpidetect 2048 from philscomputerlabs, which works. connected sc-55, no hanging note issue with midi. tested doom and duke3d from pcgamer july 2000 iso, both work. duke3d had issues with svga 800x600, glitchy display but when reverting back to 340x200 (?) it corrected the issue.
so in summary, fast, midi works, late dos games worth playing no issues, done. Also, far less headache than socket 939 nforce3. now need to extend hard drive to 120gb using partition drive, if i can be bothered to use full space.

edit: just used dxdiag sound check and yes there is the midi note hang...

gmaverick2k wrote on 2023-10-17, 13:41:

Installed sounblaster live! sb0220 and tried to install Joseph_Joestar's 5 step audigy 2zs drivers but kept hard locking

It's possible that VxD drivers can't function on newer Intel chipsets.

The latest hardware that I was able to get those running on was a LGA775 motherboard which uses the P35 chipset. Full system specs can be found here.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-10-17, 13:52:

It's possible that VxD drivers can't function on newer Intel chipsets. The latest hardware that I was able to get those runnin […]
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gmaverick2k wrote on 2023-10-17, 13:41:

Installed sounblaster live! sb0220 and tried to install Joseph_Joestar's 5 step audigy 2zs drivers but kept hard locking

It's possible that VxD drivers can't function on newer Intel chipsets.

The latest hardware that I was able to get those running on was a LGA775 motherboard which uses the P35 chipset. Full system specs can be found here.

yes, i used same motherboard as philscomputerlab and from memory it worked on that, asus p5kpl-am se. i read online that soundblaster live would work. tried both vxd and wdm both hard locks on this B75M

now to box this up in a windowed case, plop it next to my z440, connect aux to z623 and dvi>hdmi to my big display
edit: 3dmark 2001 benchmark score and Arctic Cooling ATI Silencer 4 pic ;D

out of range on benq 3210r and 1600x1200 not a proper option. bin/cue copy of daggerfall gimps out, black screen on reboot. looks like its fixed to 2007fp monitor for this build as its compatible with that display 😒
increased partition to full 120gb using hiren boot cd 15 partition magic, and transferred 60gb of bin/cues using usb3 caddy. also is being powered by ax1200i for lulz

gmaverick2k wrote on 2023-10-17, 14:02:

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-10-17, 13:52:

It's possible that VxD drivers can't function on newer Intel chipsets. The latest hardware that I was able to get those runnin […]
Show full quote

gmaverick2k wrote on 2023-10-17, 13:41:

Installed sounblaster live! sb0220 and tried to install Joseph_Joestar's 5 step audigy 2zs drivers but kept hard locking

It's possible that VxD drivers can't function on newer Intel chipsets.

The latest hardware that I was able to get those running on was a LGA775 motherboard which uses the P35 chipset. Full system specs can be found here.

yes, i used same motherboard as philscomputerlab and from memory it worked on that, asus p5kpl-am se. i read online that soundblaster live would work. tried both vxd and wdm both hard locks on this B75M

I'd say it depends on the driver and the hardware. I used the original VXD drivers from the Live! 5.1 Installation CD, and they seem to work perfectly with my Live! 5.1 except for Sound Blaster 16 Emulation. EAX and Soundfonts load properly on my B75 board when I use the Sound Blaster Live.

My Audigy 1 and Audigy 2ZS do not work properly with the VXD drivers. The original VXD drivers for the Audigy 1 from the installation CD don't initialize the card. The VXD drivers for the 2ZS do initilize both the Audigy 1 and 2ZS for stereo sound, but EAX and Sound Blaster applications are non-functional.

The Serpent Rider wrote on 2022-02-05, 17:52:

led178 wrote:

If ultimate then like this

Ah yes, another uninspiring "lets make generic LGA775 PCIe build, just like Phil did 100 times already", from Kaspersky antivirus blog (!?) of all places. Just like this cookie cutter thread.

Yeah he did but that doesnt mean somebody else cant do it again for themselves.
Thats one of the problems with youtubers like Phil. Just because he has done it to death on his channel it doesnt mean somebody cant build a system for themselves.

By “Ultimate Win98 computer” I mean with Win98 Era hardware.

Thats one of the problems with youtubers like Phil.

I critique the "Ultimate" labeling, not the desire to build such setup.

Everyone has a different opinion of what constitutes an 'Ultimate' build.

It could range from an ultimate period-correct build to an ultimate high-end component build to some sort of esoteric pushing-components-beyond-all-reasonable-intended-usage build.

I wouldn't get too hung up on such labels. 😉

Ahh well there we are in agreement, at least in part.
There have been a few builds that are able to take the title.
Ive seen a few builds on here of high performing Win98 PCs that have high benchmark scores because they use the latest hardware but the term can be used to mean different things.

I mean can a Core2Duo really be an Ultimate 98 PC when it clearly cant use all the hardware it has?

You could say unless its on a Core i9-14900K it aint as good as it can get.

I mean Philscomputerlab seems to put Glide over all else for an ultimate 98 build.

To me an ultimate build focusing on performance also needs to include broad compatibility. A super fast build that can't actually play everything (esp. for anything speed sensitive) isn't really an 'ultimate' build in my view.

Plus there gets to be a point where any performance headroom is wasted if things like games are already running fully maxed out.

But to each their own. If it makes someone happy to build something they enjoy, more power to them.

For me everything has to work properly.
If it has SATA then it has to be able to use it. If it has wireless LAN then it has to work... And be what Microsoft made.
As fast as you can get and everything works... Including the CPU. Which discounts anything with multiple cores or multiple sockets.

Windows 98 only supports single core CPU.
So NO Dual Core CPU or Multicore CPU.

Yeah, multi core just means youre not even trying to make it support all of the hardware. In which case anything that uses 775 based core processors is a joke.