VOGONS


Reply 40 of 54, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++

Regarding the chances of cracking the die of a sA CPU. I heard many people actually having this happen to them but I never had this happen while mounting or unmounting a HS, not even once.
At some point I managed to get so handy with how to distribute my weight and how to move the flatbed screwdriver that I kinda did it semi-automatically.

What I have had happen several times is adding a HSF and forgetting to apply TIM which in a single case ended up burning the CPU (a Palomino) basically instantly.

It's often a matter of not getting impatient, not while lacking concentration and not trying to do this while tired/dim lighting condition/in a hurry. And use the right tools and to know what you are doing.

For anyone who would want to practice this (for whatever reason), perhaps better to practice using a (discardable) s370 Celeron (Coppermine core with no ISH) 😜

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 41 of 54, by Sphere478

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t
Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-16, 09:53:
Regarding the chances of cracking the die of a sA CPU. I heard many people actually having this happen to them but I never had t […]
Show full quote

Regarding the chances of cracking the die of a sA CPU. I heard many people actually having this happen to them but I never had this happen while mounting or unmounting a HS, not even once.
At some point I managed to get so handy with how to distribute my weight and how to move the flatbed screwdriver that I kinda did it semi-automatically.

What I have had happen several times is adding a HSF and forgetting to apply TIM which in a single case ended up burning the CPU (a Palomino) basically instantly.

It's often a matter of not getting impatient, not while lacking concentration and not trying to do this while tired/dim lighting condition/in a hurry. And use the right tools and to know what you are doing.

For anyone who would want to practice this (for whatever reason), perhaps better to practice using a (discardable) s370 Celeron (Coppermine core with no ISH) 😜

We could be installing a IHS 🤔

Sphere's PCB projects.
-
Sphere’s socket 5/7 cpu collection.
-
SUCCESSFUL K6-2+ to K6-3+ Full Cache Enable Mod
-
Tyan S1564S to S1564D single to dual processor conversion (also s1563 and s1562)

Reply 42 of 54, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Sphere478 wrote on 2022-03-16, 11:10:
Tetrium wrote on 2022-03-16, 09:53:
Regarding the chances of cracking the die of a sA CPU. I heard many people actually having this happen to them but I never had t […]
Show full quote

Regarding the chances of cracking the die of a sA CPU. I heard many people actually having this happen to them but I never had this happen while mounting or unmounting a HS, not even once.
At some point I managed to get so handy with how to distribute my weight and how to move the flatbed screwdriver that I kinda did it semi-automatically.

What I have had happen several times is adding a HSF and forgetting to apply TIM which in a single case ended up burning the CPU (a Palomino) basically instantly.

It's often a matter of not getting impatient, not while lacking concentration and not trying to do this while tired/dim lighting condition/in a hurry. And use the right tools and to know what you are doing.

For anyone who would want to practice this (for whatever reason), perhaps better to practice using a (discardable) s370 Celeron (Coppermine core with no ISH) 😜

We could be installing a IHS 🤔

Personally I could live without adding IHSs to sA CPUs, but if someone else (wink wink? 😜) would decide to make a project out of this, I'd be definitely watching it with keen interest 😀

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 44 of 54, by bofh.fromhell

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member
Grem Five wrote on 2022-03-16, 12:00:

Adding an ihs would just hinder cooling performance for the sake of protecting the die from an operation that should not need to be performed very seldom.

Dunno if that's entirely correct.
Possibly for higher end coolers, but for the cheapo included aluminium ones I think an IHS may actually improve things.
Crappy TIM's notwithstanding obviously =)
Also consider that for the next generation they (AMD) did move to IHS's, and Intel was already using them from the P4 and on.
And Intel didn't really have a CPU die cracking problem with the P3 generation.

As with most of these things I suspect its a matter of catering to the OEM market.
A sturdy CPU and cooling mounting means that systems can be shipped safer.
And the P4 style mounting was leaps and bounds better then the "hook to the flimsy plastic socket" we all know and hate.

Anyways, just my €0.02

Reply 45 of 54, by Kahenraz

User metadata
Rank l33t
Rank
l33t

I actually really like the hook and lever idea of the early sockets. There are some plastic mounts that attach to the motherboard that only need one large metal clip to hold the heatsink down. I've found theses to be the easiest coolers to attach and remove.

Reply 46 of 54, by Cuttoon

User metadata
Rank Oldbie
Rank
Oldbie
TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-16, 08:08:

I really really dont want to fry a super rare unlockable XP3200+ but yes .. they should have put a damn IHS on these chips .. was AMD trying to save a few pennies by not using a IHS . .or were they trying to be a Pentium III. Ill be honest here, It scare the heck out of me to even change the cooler on that CPU, the chances of cracking or chipping the die makes me want to just leave it be with that 7000RPM noise maker, but .. I know that as soon as I find a better alternative ill step back into the shark tank.

I wonder if you can fit a IHS to these chips ....hmmm perhaps a Pentium III Tually IHS might work.

One can remove the IHS of a K6-2. Apparently some people do it to achieve better OC results, eliminating one extra layer of material beween semiconductor and helium cryogenics.
I did it for the same reason I cut open that puppy: Boredom.
Anyway, turn's out a stripped K6-2 looks quite a bit like an athlon. Whether that means one could apply it to one, there's only one way to find out and I'm not going it.

Seriously, that scare about damaging the die is very natural and probably the reason why it never happened to me, despite mounting some rather heavy coolers in narrow cases.
The usual tweak was one of those copper spacers.

TrashPanda wrote on 2022-03-16, 08:08:

was AMD trying to save a few pennies by not using a IHS

Well, they were made in Dresden, so I won't put it beyond them.
Sorry, German-German inside joke there. I won't go into the details, but Sir Arthur Harris did have a point!

I like jumpers.

Reply 47 of 54, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
bofh.fromhell wrote on 2022-03-16, 13:25:
Dunno if that's entirely correct. Possibly for higher end coolers, but for the cheapo included aluminium ones I think an IHS may […]
Show full quote
Grem Five wrote on 2022-03-16, 12:00:

Adding an ihs would just hinder cooling performance for the sake of protecting the die from an operation that should not need to be performed very seldom.

Dunno if that's entirely correct.
Possibly for higher end coolers, but for the cheapo included aluminium ones I think an IHS may actually improve things.
Crappy TIM's notwithstanding obviously =)
Also consider that for the next generation they (AMD) did move to IHS's, and Intel was already using them from the P4 and on.
And Intel didn't really have a CPU die cracking problem with the P3 generation.

As with most of these things I suspect its a matter of catering to the OEM market.
A sturdy CPU and cooling mounting means that systems can be shipped safer.
And the P4 style mounting was leaps and bounds better then the "hook to the flimsy plastic socket" we all know and hate.

Anyways, just my €0.02

It's indeed a matter of catering to the OEM market, the s478 heatsinks with the 4 (somewhat crummy) pushpins was easier to install than the clamp which basically needed to be put into place with a screwdriver.
The P4 mounting system did have 1 significant improvement, much larger and heavier cooling solutions could be safely mounted and was a clear step-up from the clamp-with-help-of-screwdriver system we've come to love and know and get used to starting with Socket 3/5/7 and later.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 48 of 54, by Tetrium

User metadata
Rank l33t++
Rank
l33t++
Kahenraz wrote on 2022-03-16, 13:39:

I actually really like the hook and lever idea of the early sockets. There are some plastic mounts that attach to the motherboard that only need one large metal clip to hold the heatsink down. I've found theses to be the easiest coolers to attach and remove.

It was simple, relatively cheap, rather flexible and effective.
But for me, by the time Athlon and Athlon XP entered the fray, the limits of this cooling solution were clearly nearing its limitations. I can't imagine this cooling solution being able to cool a CPU of 120W or more.
The cooling solution we got with A64 was clearly superior to the sA and (to a lesser extend) s478s775 one (s478s775 was somewhat fragile due to the 4 flimsy plastic pushpins).

EDIT: I was drunk -_-, s478 is the one with the 2 levers, the 4 pushpins are the LGA775 ones -_-
How did I get these mixed up anyway xD
Anyway, fixed 😜

Last edited by Tetrium on 2022-03-16, 15:51. Edited 2 times in total.

Whats missing in your collections?
My retro rigs (old topic)
Interesting Vogons threads (links to Vogonswiki)
Report spammers here!

Reply 50 of 54, by Hoping

User metadata
Rank Member
Rank
Member

The best ones I have are the CoolJag JVC352A, a lot of very thin fins, compact, it usually never touches any nearby capacitor. Great for the 3200+, And the Gigabyte PCU21-VG, also compact, heat pipe design and LEDs for the people that like then;). Used it for years on the 3200+.
A few simple guidelines for Socket 462 heatsinks are, if they are small they will either not cool well or make a lot of noise, if they are large with 80x80mm fans they will work very well and be fairly quiet but they will frequently knock on the capacitors which are usually very close to the socket. The dissipation surface is obviously the most important thing and at the time heatpipes were rare so for a heatsink to be compact and work well it has to have very thin and abundant fins.
Copper-based or copper-core heatsinks greatly improved performance.
Lastly, most socket 462 all-copper heatsinks did not perform as well as expected for their high price and were also too heavy to hang from a socket, heatsinks that could be screwed onto the board holes were rare. and not all Socket 462 boards had the holes for them. A good example of a bad all-copper heatsink with a hole mounting mechanism is the Zalman CNPS 5100-Cu. A friend bought one for a Palomino 2000+ a regretted it a lot the next day, but it looked so cool.....
And as other members said, it is interesting to prioritize heatsinks with three attachment points, although in my case I have never had problems with any heatsink with only one point.
If you don't want to spend a lot of money look for the big aluminum heatsinks with the 80x80mm fans but again keep in mind that they may touch the capacitors or be impossible to mount because of the capacitors.

Reply 51 of 54, by piatd

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Grem Five wrote on 2022-03-14, 22:44:
For Zalman he would want the 7000B or older (only older one I think is the 7000A) as those come with the alum bracket that screw […]
Show full quote

For Zalman he would want the 7000B or older (only older one I think is the 7000A) as those come with the alum bracket that screw into the motherboard if its NOS like the one I have. Most of the ones I have seen second hand that are not still in package are almost always missing those alum brackets. The other ones will work with those alum brackets I think but they just didnt come packaged with them.

I have a 2nd one I use on my Asus A7M266 with a Athlon 1200 and later Athlon XP 2000+

RKhFs00h.jpg

The brackets in the right side of the picture below are the ones I'm talking about.

cnps7000bcu_bracket.jpg

I have seen 7000 (no letter) but only seen those with pentium 4 bracket.

Be careful when buying the Zalman flower coolers online for Socket 462/A, for two reasons:

  1. Grem Five is correct. Zalman made this confusing by releasing the CNPS7000-AlCu (without a letter designation, this does not support 462, yet strangely includes "nipples" for Socket 754), CNPS7000A-AlCu ("A" version definitely supports 462), and CNPS7000B-AlCu ("B" version definitely supports 462). Anything "C" or later will not work for Socket 462.
  2. Several years ago, deceitful sellers advertised "new" Zalman flower coolers in the original packaging, but they were used and missing the original retention clip and/or 462 bracket supports. Unless a clear picture of both the retention clip/fan support housing and the bracket supports for Socket 462 is provided, do not buy it. I had to purchase three of these before I finally received the correct one as advertised.

Reply 54 of 54, by Bohemond1099

User metadata
Rank Newbie
Rank
Newbie
Con 2 botones wrote on 2022-03-16, 15:54:

I use Thermaltake´s Volcano 10 (A1671 ) for a 3200+, with success.

Not noisy and quite small.

Ok thanks.