VOGONS


Reply 101 of 239, by greasemonkey90s

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So p3 and athlon @ 850mhz max whether slot or socket

Motherboard chipsets dont matter? For both platforms?

If it doesnt i see that t-bird being a bigger beast outside a 751/kx133/kt133

Reply 102 of 239, by Necrodude

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greasemonkey90s wrote on 2022-04-13, 08:40:

So p3 and athlon @ 850mhz max whether slot or socket

Motherboard chipsets dont matter? For both platforms?

If it doesnt i see that t-bird being a bigger beast outside a 751/kx133/kt133

Yes. You are correct.

Reply 104 of 239, by Meatball

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Necrodude wrote on 2022-04-13, 19:51:

There has been a slight rule change. The frequency limit on pentium III:s has been raised to 900mhz.

The reason is that the Athlons are faster.

Putting overclocking FSB overclocking aside for the moment, since the only Pentium III@900MHz is 100MHz FSB, which can be beaten up (but not soundly thrashed like an 850 would be) by a Pentium 733/133, do you think it would be a good idea to make the Pentium III limit 933MHz? Or is it more about contestants having to rely on their tweaking skills of slower PIII's to get to this limit?

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Reply 105 of 239, by Necrodude

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Yeah. Since the Pentium III cpus are slower then the Athlons I wanted to give the pentium III owners more overclocking headroom.

I wan to give the pentium owners a fairer chanse to win the contest.

Reply 106 of 239, by Meatball

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Necrodude wrote on 2022-04-13, 21:48:

Yeah. Since the Pentium III cpus are slower then the Athlons I wanted to give the pentium III owners more overclocking headroom.

I wan to give the pentium owners a fairer chanse to win the contest.

Thanks for your continued clarifications and fast response on this topic/contest!

***->WINNER, 1ST PLACE<-***
2022 #QUAKE3totheMAX -560.5fps-
Brain Drain Retro LAN https://discord.com/channels/799008837918261328
Windows ME
NForce2 A7N8X-E DLX
Athlon 848/154MHz
DDR@411MHz (2-3-3-3)
GeForce 256 DDR@144/344MHz
ESS Maestr0-1

Reply 107 of 239, by BitWrangler

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So now the question is, what DDR socket A motherboard runs best at 170 (x5) and has stable AGP overclock so the GF DDR hangs in there.... or is that the trick, Voodoos known for high AGP survival so OPPainter/DDTung tuned settings on AMD761 good, GF DDR needs a 5/2 divider, so KT333/400 etc

Edit: Orrrrr.... maybe running on KT400 with FSB at 166 pushed to 170 with RAM at 400 pushed to 425 works extra more goodly bettererer

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 109 of 239, by Necrodude

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BitWrangler wrote on 2022-04-14, 01:53:

Edit: Orrrrr.... maybe running on KT400 with FSB at 166 pushed to 170 with RAM at 400 pushed to 425 works extra more goodly bettererer

200 bus x 4 multiplier would be pretty cool as well 😀

Reply 110 of 239, by pa1983

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Necrodude wrote on 2022-04-14, 09:00:
BitWrangler wrote on 2022-04-14, 01:53:

Edit: Orrrrr.... maybe running on KT400 with FSB at 166 pushed to 170 with RAM at 400 pushed to 425 works extra more goodly bettererer

200 bus x 4 multiplier would be pretty cool as well 😀

No Athlon or duron with lower then 5x exists as fare as I know. have read the data sheets, 5x multiplier is the lowest for the platform that I can tell.
There are other things to consider to with overclocking Athlons on lat Athlon XP era boards.

Also 5x never worked on my Thunderbird 1400 but I think 5.5x did, that might be CPU dependent but some boards also has problems with some multipliers if the CPU is unlocked and it set manually.
My ASrock NF2 board wont do the 9x multiplier, just refuses to post, 8.5 nad 9.5 works and thats with a factory unlocked 2500+.
Its not always a walk in the park with Older Athlons on modern Socket A boards.
Most budget to midrange Socket A boards simply do not have the Logic required to change the multiplier on an unlocked Thunderbird or Spitfire.
Its because Thunderbirds/spitfire CPU's they use two sets of 4 pins for 8 total, they kind of work like two keys, both needs to be set.
Athlon XP so Palomino and later used 5 pins only, no "double check" so the 5 pins reduces complexity (AMD states in datasheets that this is to make it easier for motherboard manufacturers to implement) but it also gives a higher span of multipliers required for higher clocked low FSB cpu's.

All my Athlon XP era (333+ FSB) Asrock and ASUS bord that are low to mid range cant change the multiplier on Thunderbird but XP works that are unlocked. I have factory unlocked models of Athlon and Athlon XP and also manually unlocked Athlon 850's CPU's with soldered L1 bridges.

I use an older ECS sis based 266FSB DDR board for my 850's, with some aggressive NB cooling I can push that to 293Mhz FSB stable in memtest86+ but no more the NB is heat sensitive so CPU is water cooled and NB has a oversized heatsink and fan.

The only other board I have that can handle both Unlocked Athlons, Athlon 4, and Athlon XP is my DFI Lanparty NF2 board.

So yea 200Mhz FSB or 400Mhz Effectiv can only be had at 5x multiplier and 1Ghz so that is outside of the rules.
Best case scenario would be 170Mhz or 340Mhz effective, very fast, more realistic tough would be 154Mhz for 308Mhz effective buss.
But you still need to have a proper board, or you would have to mod your board to manually set the multipliers by implementing the old ways of doing it on Thunderbird/Spitfire.

DDR on the Athlons are faster due to Athlons stock 200Mhz FSB but the performance gains are not proportional, i would say its 10% more performance with DDR VS SDR at the same clock (not effective DDR clock)

With the right board for a Pentium 3 system one can do 166Mhz ram and FSB, maybe even more, I got up there with a tualatin but I have a P3 800 that will do 166Mhz FSB stock voltage. Problem is my board cant do that on ram so have to run 3:4. But I have the CPU and ram for it tough the CPU wont qualify.

There are 6ns SDRAM out there, I seen multiple stick but one has to check what chips are on the sticks. Best I seen is 166Mhz @ Cas2 when I overclocked a 1Ghz Tualatin to 166/166 FSB/RAM at Cas2 and that was fast even compared to Athlons.

So at 163Mhz FSB and RAM with a good stick and board a P3 is not slow.

One would need a P3 CPU with a 133Mhz FSB, 800 or 733Mhz to be able to run say 150-163Mhz bus, proper stepping , proper proper board etc.

But yea the Athlons that can be unlocked with the right board is potent and probably easier to find. But a P3 with the right board ram and CPU can go high on bus and ram to.

Both have there challenges if one wants maximum memory performance on the lower clocked Processors.

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Reply 113 of 239, by sacri

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doogie wrote on 2022-04-11, 20:29:

I think it's a super fun idea. I wish there were more of these types of competitions here on the board to be honest. My stance is, we can grumble about the rules, or play the game and see what we can get out of the hardware we have. It ain't really about the prizes, it's about how far you can push things. And it's an opportunity to learn something.

I agree.

Reply 114 of 239, by Necrodude

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DosFreak wrote on 2022-04-10, 22:12:
Last build I tested with ioQuake3 on 98 and ME was ioquake3-1.35_SVN1286-2.1.x86 (3-27-2008) https://github.com/ioquake/ioq3/com […]
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doogie wrote on 2022-04-10, 20:43:

This is awesome!!! Time to learn some stuff - to clarify, if I compile or use code from the ioQuake3 project - that’s all good, right, as long as I maintain server protocol compatibility with vanilla 1.32?

Last build I tested with ioQuake3 on 98 and ME was ioquake3-1.35_SVN1286-2.1.x86 (3-27-2008)
https://github.com/ioquake/ioq3/commit/f82ea6 … d7f8a21f3b9966a
Also here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20190705202401/ht … rg/files/angst/

Haven't tried the newer ioquake3 versions with kernelex yet.
Spearmint 1.03 does work with kernelex

It may be a much better idea to use the Quake3e code to get it working on 9x since "quake3-1.32e-20200415" (possibly newer builds work but I haven't tested) works fine on Windows 2000.
https://github.com/ec-/Quake3e

I have tried this version on a couple of computers. I got issues with the soundplayback. It stutters.
Have anyone experienced similar things? If so? Did you solve it? And in that case - how?

Reply 115 of 239, by DosFreak

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What OS?
Which port are you using?
What hardware and sound cards?
Is it stutter or a delay?
Does the regular Q3 have the issue?
Have you tried different sound card drivers, lowering sound acceleration, adjusting the port sound settings and configuration?

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Reply 116 of 239, by Necrodude

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DosFreak wrote on 2022-04-23, 11:42:
What OS? Which port are you using? What hardware and sound cards? Is it stutter or a delay? Does the regular Q3 have the issue? […]
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What OS?
Which port are you using?
What hardware and sound cards?
Is it stutter or a delay?
Does the regular Q3 have the issue?
Have you tried different sound card drivers, lowering sound acceleration, adjusting the port sound settings and configuration?

I used the ioquake3-1.35_SVN1286-2.1.x86.exe

The specs of the first computer I used is
Amd k6-3+ @616mhz.
Geforce 256 SDR
Soundblaster AWE64

The specs of the second computer I used is
Intel Pentium III socket 370 866mhz
3dfx Voodoo3 3000
Soundblaster live WDM something driver

I havent really tried anything yet except removing my config files so that the game reverts back to normal settings. It didnt help at all.
I would describe the problem like stuttering and delays.

Reply 117 of 239, by Necrodude

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Necrodude wrote on 2022-04-23, 19:30:
DosFreak wrote on 2022-04-23, 11:42:
What OS? Which port are you using? What hardware and sound cards? Is it stutter or a delay? Does the regular Q3 have the issue? […]
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What OS?
Which port are you using?
What hardware and sound cards?
Is it stutter or a delay?
Does the regular Q3 have the issue?
Have you tried different sound card drivers, lowering sound acceleration, adjusting the port sound settings and configuration?

The OS is windows 98

Reply 118 of 239, by bloodem

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greasemonkey90s wrote on 2022-04-13, 08:40:

If it doesnt i see that t-bird being a bigger beast outside a 751/kx133/kt133

This might have been discussed earlier (TL;DR), but the Thunderbird was launched in 2000... wasn't this competition supposed to rely on 1999 parts? (although, it clearly doesn't or it does so selectively 😁 ).
If Thunderbird is disregarded (as I believe it should), then DDR motherboards are also out of the equation. 😀

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Reply 119 of 239, by stef80

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Just ordered cheap TBird 900 locally. Will try pencil-mod to unlock it for 8.5 multi (850MHz).
Board is ECS K7S6A+ (Sis 745), about equivalent to VIA KT266 performance wise. I used it before for AMD Geode project.
GPU is Asus V6800 Deluxe. And 'Wayback machine' spitted out TBird DLLs. We'll soon see what comes out of it. 😉.