ThinkpadIL wrote on 2022-04-24, 05:53:

rasz_pl wrote on 2022-04-23, 22:42:

https://hackaday.com/2020/09/24/in-praise-of- … for-what-it-is/

50 year old design, good enough for what you are planning to do. No need for more expensive meters, as paying extra buys more precision, accuracy, repeatability and protection. First three arent that important when plan is sanity checking low voltage supply voltages. You can manage fine with 1-3% accuracy instead of 0.03% of >$150 meters. Protections are only important when working on high voltage/amperage stuff, and even then 830 is fine for most things plugged into wall socket (CAT I/CAT II). TLDR dont measure car battery short circuit current or voltage of CRT flyback and you will be fine.

Interesting design, but I'd rather choose a more widespread model with some decent quality, accuracy and protection.

Well, the digital multimeter is nice, but the most versatile instrument was the CRT-based oscilloscope.
You could analyze about anything with just a scope. Caps, characteristics of electronics parts etc.
Everyone. I repeat, everyone, should have access to at least a modest oscilloscope.
Nowadays digital models even have a simple multimeter and a frequency counter built-in.

The second most important instrument (for RF folks) maybe was the grid dip meter..

Edit: Please don't get me wrong, I'm not going to recommend anyone spending hundreds of dollars/euros/etc for a new oscilloscope.
But if you can get one in a working condition, maybe second hand, for below hundred dollars/euros, it's worth it.
At least for those of you with a real interest in electronics.
For basic tasks, an 80 year old model will work as fine as a recent one.
Also, analogue models (normal, storage scope models) or hybrid models wirh real CRTs still have their place.
Because, the analogue types do display signals with no lag in real time.
Akin to CRT TVs are best for retro game consoles.

Edit: The MHz range is important, also. But not as critical, as someone might think.
A 1MHz or 10MHz model doesn't suddenly stop displaying signals of higher frequency.
They simply increasingly loose accuracy if used beyond their specifications.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-04-24, 05:46:

Hi! If free time is no problem, I really recommend spending some time with electronics construction kits. They usually explain t […]
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Hi! If free time is no problem, I really recommend spending some time with electronics construction kits.
They usually explain the use of ohm meters/volt meters or nowadays multimeters in their manuals and how things like transistors, caps do work.

Also useful are books about building radios.
The radio tinkerer hobby started it all, depending on how we see it.
Back in the early 20th century, kids to oldtimers started building crystal radios etc.
The things learned do not only consist of DC electronics but also high frequency.

That's one stumbling stone even Intel engineers failed at.
At one point, the myth says, they had electrical issues with their PCB design, but for a while didn't realize what's wrong.
It turned out they drew traces on PCB in a way that wasn't appropriate in the application (90°, caused reflection?).
If they had had any education in radio technology, the issue never had happened in first place perhaps.

My main occupation is too far away from electronics field and retro-computers hobby for me is something between "on-shelf-museum" and "trip to unknown galaxy of electronics and programming". In other words my intention is to limit my hobby with strict limits, i.e.:

--- All the hardware, software and literature have to occupy a very limited space in my home and must not go out of the closet. That's why I collect only laptops and have only one tower desktop.
--- Purchases has a strictly limited budget.
--- Fun with a hardware (teardown, testing, repairing, building) is limited to minimum set of test equipment and tools and to minimum knowledge in electronics.
--- Fun with a software (setting up a system, tuning, programming etc) is limited to specific task without in-depth studying of programming or other professional skills.

That's why I'm interested in acquiring a minimum set of test equipment and tools. My desire is to be able to take all the stuff (hardware, measuring equipment, tools etc) from a shelf, play with it on my desk and when I'm done, to put everything back on a shelf, leaving a desk clean and shiny.

Ah I understand. So it's essentially about an miniature lab in a shoe box/suit case.
Well, that's certainly possible.

As a start, I recommend PC repair kits with a multimeter then.
They contain most mechanical tools needed and can be stored on a shelf or under the bed etc.

They look like this, for example (just an example really; don't own this one):
https://m.alibaba.com/product/60831121429/12- … ter-Repair.html

Maybe some POST diagnostics card for parallel port, too.
Laptops usually sent the POST code via LPT port.

For real soldering works, a temperature controlled soldering iron or station (better) is recommended.

Otherwise, right now I can't think of something else that wasn't mentioned before.
These LCR, ESR meters are handy, too. Same goes for an optional pocket oscilloscope.
They have LCD screens and are very lightweight. For measuring DC and a few hundred KHz they may do okay.

Jo22 wrote on 2022-04-24, 11:13:

Ah I understand. So it's essentially about an miniature lab in a shoe box/suit case. Well, that's certainly possible. […]
Show full quote

Ah I understand. So it's essentially about an miniature lab in a shoe box/suit case.
Well, that's certainly possible.

As a start, I recommend PC repair kits with a multimeter then.
They contain most mechanical tools needed and can be stored on a shelf or under the bed etc.

They look like this, for example (just an example really; don't own this one):
https://m.alibaba.com/product/60831121429/12- … ter-Repair.html

Maybe some POST diagnostics card for parallel port, too.
Laptops usually sent the POST code via LPT port.

For real soldering works, a temperature controlled soldering iron or station (better) is recommended.

Otherwise, right now I can't think of something else that wasn't mentioned before.
These LCR, ESR meters are handy, too. Same goes for an optional pocket oscilloscope.
They have LCD screens and are very lightweight. For measuring DC and a few hundred KHz they may do okay.

Computer Repair Tool Kit is really a good idea. But there is no way I'm going to allow a soldering iron to enter my home. 🙂

I didn't really buy any expensive tools to get into the retro computer hobby... My most expensive tools I already had from my other hobby, rebuilding old cars. The only money I've spent other than buying cheap components and cables has been on setting up my work area. I don't have a bench powersupply though, and I think that would be next on the list.

My setup is:

- A fluke 117 multimeter ($200) It does capacitance and diode mode in addition to the typical volts/resistance/continuity. The only thing I changed was getting probes with sharper tips, and alligator clips that snap on to the probes.

- Picoscope 2204a ($165) Easy to use but definitely entry-level. Originally purchased for working on car electronics where sample speed does not need to be high. For 8-bit and even 16-bit it is fast enough, but can't really keep up with the speeds of 32 bit computers if you're trying to look at the quality of TTL waveforms.

- Soldering stuff is all entry-level Weller stuff. Maybe a desoldering gun is in my near future... That will wait until I have need for it.