VOGONS


First post, by teh_Foxx0rz

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I have a curiosity in playing (the DOS version of the original) Castle Wolfenstein. My current retro PCs extend back to a Slot 1 system I can put a Pentium II 233 downclocked to 133MHz in, but unsurprisingly, while the game runs on it, it's graphically corrupted and runs way too fast. I didn't expect it to play something so old of course, but I was curious. 😜 (Although it does run Rogue just fine so that's nifty)

I'm interested in getting an older system anyway, for games such as Wing Commander (which to my understanding the above system would also be too fast for, and works best somewhere around 25-33MHz), so, while I know this is often a tall order for PCs, I figure I'd look into a system with the most versatility, to kill two birds with one stone. I know that from the original Pentium and earlier processors were a lot more flexible with their speeds, too.

So, is there a processor which could cover that whole time period at all? I've seen PhilsComputerLab cover how Pentiums and such can be given very fine granular control over their speed, but I get the impression that original Pentiums can't go quite slow enough. I've seen less information on 486es, though I'm aware that the original Intel 8088 of the IBM PC held quite the influence over compatibility considerations in the '80s and was the reason Turbo buttons came about (even if they stopped being about that eventually). Or, would I have to go back even further for Castle Wolfenstein and other early-DOS-specific games? Is it even possible to have a system that can extend to work with both?

I'm not necessarily looking for a simple answer to this too; I'm not immediately looking to buy anything, I'm mostly just curious, and want to inform a potential future build I might make!

Reply 1 of 6, by Meatball

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Take a look at the Cyrix MediaGX. I have one and it is pretty darn slow... it's a system only someone on Vogons could love...

PhilsComputerLab did a video review and found you can get this down to a 386 DX/40 and performs around a Pentium 166MMX at the top end. Probably around 200MMX with an overclock and register settings update. You can still buy both the board and CPU on eBay.
https://youtu.be/H60UIo5ApEA

You can also review these threads for more tips and configuration:
Cyrix MediaGX build
Re: Register settings for various CPUs

Reply 2 of 6, by cyclone3d

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Wing Commander 1 DOS version runs ok up to a out a 386 DX-33. 40Mhz is too fast.

This is on real hardware I owned back when that was my main machine.

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Reply 3 of 6, by TehGuy

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If this is anything to go by, a Via C3 Ezra/Ezra-T would be rather versatile and is something I could attest to myself, at least as far as benchmarks are concerned. Certainly makes some of the earlier Ulitmas play a lot nicer once dialed in.

Win98+DOS: C3 Ezra-T 1.0AGHz / P3-S 1.26GHz, 128MB RAM, AWE64 + Orpheus + Audigy 2 ZS, Ti 4200, 128GB SD card
Win XP SP3: C2Q 9650, 4GB RAM, X-Fi Titanium, GTX 750
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Reply 4 of 6, by AlexZ

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Use DOS box (x) for speed sensitive games. Another alternative for a more realistic emulation would be pcem / 86box. The latter supports good selection of hardware. A software solution is free, takes less space and may also be more stable due to age of components. If you find it inadequate for some reason only then consider getting period correct hardware.

I have a PIII rig and the following virtual machines on 86box: Tandy 1000 SL/2 (8086), Hyundai Super-286TR (286), AMI 386DX clone, Chaintech 433SC (486DX), ASUS VL/I-486SV2G (486DX2 66), Asus PVI-486SP3C (486DX4 100). Should I need different CPU speed I just reconfigure the emulator.

PIII can't be emulated due to insufficient host CPU speed and that is why I got it.

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Reply 5 of 6, by teh_Foxx0rz

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AlexZ wrote on 2022-06-18, 11:58:

If you find it inadequate for some reason only then consider getting period correct hardware.

Emulation's the "easy", boring route, hence me asking here in a hardware topic!

Everyone else:

Unfortunately, it seems like from what I'm looking at here that the MediaGX and Ezra can't go slow enough.
I wasn't sure what Castle Wolfenstein specifically required when writing the original post though I knew it was early, but this thread here affirms that yes, it is bound to the original 8088 speed of 4.77MHz.

So, ideally, it would be great if I could build a system which could, with multiplier/FSB adjustments, turbo, SetMul, or otherwise, be set to run at speeds from 4.77MHz, all the way up to at least 33MHz (for Wing Commander), and then as high as possible beyond that. If they can't reach Wing Commander, then my interest is still primarily in what the most advanced (latest/fastest) system which could be set to natively run Castle Wolfenstein accurately, rather than a system to run Wing Commander. Wing Commander systems are pretty well covered.

However! As I mentioned, I do of course realise that this could be a tall order. I'm mostly just curious, owing to how backwards compatible the x86 platform is, and how much of a sway the 8088/8086 kept over the PC-compatible market through the '80s, making this seem like a potentially plausible aim.

Perhaps I didn't phrase the original post clear enough. Hopefully, this lays out what my aims are here better.

Thanks for the responses all the same. The MediaGX and Ezra do still seem like very interesting chips for other purposes that I hadn't known much about before.

Reply 6 of 6, by Shponglefan

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If you use a utility like MoSlo, you can effectively slow down any system to play processor dependent DOS games. This isn't emulation since you'd still be using native DOS; it's just using a memory resident program to slow down the processing of the CPU.

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