VOGONS


First post, by buckeye

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Starting a new XP build and wanting to install on a 512GB sata ssd also new. Googling this is driving me mad since
there doesn't appear to be a general consensus on how to get this done.

Phil's videos involve using easy2boot with a thumb drive which seems like a lot of prep work involved.

One method offered was hook the drive up to a win10 system and align it properly and prepare it in
other ways I'm not familiar with using the command line. Once done you hook it up to the XP system
and away you go.

Still others insist that modern ssd's will work "out of the box" which would be ideal for me but sounds too
good to be true. Can anyone shed some light on this please?

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Geforce2 GTS 64MB SB Audigy 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 1 of 19, by TrashPanda

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Modern SSDs have their own garbage collection, provisioning and wear levelling so will work ok with OS that doesn’t have Trim. To be honest the SSD will very likely out last the system it’s in due to how efficient they are with modern controllers.

As for the rest iirc the alignment thing really only benefits QLC drives and has less benefits for the others. If you really feel you need to go ahead and do it but the drive will work fine out of box.

Oh noes, the cap let the shmooo out 😁

Reply 2 of 19, by ptr1ck

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I usually align with GParted if I am going to worry about it.

For XP, there's the File Based Write Filter which may help with less writing to the drive but that may exclusive to embedded versions.

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Reply 3 of 19, by stef80

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There are few good tweaks for SSDs on XP:
1. partition it on Win7/Win10, or Linux (small live distro like Slax or SystemRescueCD) to avoid missalignement

2. sensible registry tweaks:
* turn of autodefrag
*turn of writing of last acces time
* turn of prefetcher

Or in a form of reg file:

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Dfrg\BootOptimizeFunction]
"Enable"="N"

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\OptimalLayout]
"EnableAutoLayout"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\FileSystem]
"NtfsDisableLastAccessUpdate"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management\PrefetchParameters]
"EnablePrefetcher"=dword:00000000

3. uderprovision for about 10-20%, dont partition it 100% (optional)

4. Run trim from live linux distro from time to time (optional)
Example using SystemRescueCD (linux based):
4.1) check if trim is available:

hdparm -I /dev/sda | grep TRIM

This should return:

*    Data Set Management TRIM supported

4.2) list all of partitions:

fdisk -l

4.3) mount first (ntfs) partition/file system to /mnt:

mount -t ntfs-3g /dev/sda1 /mnt

4.4) run fstrim

fstrim -v /mnt

4.5) unmount partition:

umount /mnt

4.6) repeat steps 4.3-4.5 for all other ntfs partitions (/dev/sda2, /dev/sda3 ....)

Last edited by stef80 on 2022-08-19, 16:47. Edited 9 times in total.

Reply 4 of 19, by effy

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For my XP rig with an SSD I used "WinSetupFromUSB" to create the usb thumbdrive.

I also used nLite to slipstream some extra drivers (like SATA controller) into the iso.

This was the only way I could get XP to install correctly. Trying to do it right from the install CD had all kinds of problems even when loading the appropriate SATA driver during setup. (Not being able to hit F8 to accept the EULA being a big one).

Reply 5 of 19, by stef80

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nForce3 or Intel ICH5 (comes with i865/i875) do not need any extra (SATA) drivers during install.
Some VIA southbridges do not support SATA III, which affects SSDs mostly (mechanical drives usually have jumper for SATA150 mode).
And you don't need to have AHCI to be able to run trim, that's just true for Win7 (and newer). Garbage collection works without trim but is more efficient with trim. But then again, retro rig is not something you use for every day computing and SSDs are quite large compared to disk sizes of 20y ago, so wear may not be significant.

Reply 6 of 19, by Jo22

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+1

You guys have some really good ideas, kudos! 🙂👍

Hm. What could I add? Hm. Ah, yes.:
Back in the XP days I also used the Windows 7 DVD sometimes to create an NTFS partition for XP.

Because, the Windows 7 Setup was not starting a new partition at Sector 63, like XP setup used to do.

It rather began partitions past 2MB, which was OK with 4K sector alignment.

Alternatively, I used GParted to fix alignment. I think it was part of Parted Magic live distro.

Good luck guys! 🙂🤞
Jo22

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In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 7 of 19, by stef80

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SSDs don't have sectors but 4k or larger "pages" (groupings of cells) , and during GC operation blocks of multiple pages get "zapped" ... so alignement matters since it's not "per cell" or "per page" operation.

Reply 8 of 19, by Jo22

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Alright, I see. The colloquial talk of 4k "sectors" likely originated from the new HDDs that were introduced in late 2000s/early 2010s.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format

They also had the same alignment "issue" that caused lower performance due to read-modify-write.

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

//My video channel//

Reply 9 of 19, by Shponglefan

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I used AOEMI Partition Assistant Pro for partition alignment for my Windows XP build. Worked like a charm.

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Reply 10 of 19, by buckeye

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Jo22 wrote on 2022-08-19, 16:53:
+1 […]
Show full quote

+1

You guys have some really good ideas, kudos! 🙂👍

Hm. What could I add? Hm. Ah, yes.:
Back in the XP days I also used the Windows 7 DVD sometimes to create an NTFS partition for XP.

Because, the Windows 7 Setup was not starting a new partition at Sector 63, like XP setup used to do.

It rather began partitions past 2MB, which was OK with 4K sector alignment.

Alternatively, I used GParted to fix alignment. I think it was part of Parted Magic live distro.

Good luck guys! 🙂🤞
Jo22

Glad you mentioned that, I do have a win7 dvd so that's an option. Thank you for all for the help!

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Geforce2 GTS 64MB SB Audigy 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 11 of 19, by Yoghoo

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I am using Macrium Reflect to backup the SSD's from multiple retro pc's and laptops. When restoring an image you can align and trim the SSD at the same time. Perfect way to check my backup/restore procedure and trim at the same time.

Reply 12 of 19, by LieboOSBA

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buckeye wrote on 2022-08-19, 14:20:

Phil's videos involve using easy2boot with a thumb drive which seems like a lot of prep work involved.

Older versions of Rufus can create bootable XP install USB drives. You may have to prepare the ISO with the textmode drivers for the SATA/AHCI controller if you are not using an older IDE-only board though.

Reply 13 of 19, by buckeye

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Ok I'm really out in the "weeds" now. I slip streamed the F6 AHCI/Raid drivers to the XP install cd with Nlite but I'm pretty
sure I chose the wrong sata controller in the menu (ICH9M-E/M) see attached. Tracking down the correct one for the Intel
DP35DP mobo was iffy as the manual didn't help. Googling led me to ICH9R/DO/DH, can anyone back me up on this?

What's this have to do with the SSD install? Everything if I don't get this step right. Why did Intel make a board w/o
a floppy drive connection yet provide the sata drivers on a floppy disk? Shoulda picked another board, stay tuned.

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Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Geforce2 GTS 64MB SB Audigy 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 14 of 19, by javispedro1

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I am not familiar with nLite but can't you just pick _all_ "controllers"? They all refer to the same binary so it's not going to use any more space on your image.

Still this is not related to SSDs, it is all about SATA controller. It would be the same for a rotating disk plugged in to a SATA port. If you still run into problems, you could also try simply switch the SATA controller to legacy mode/PATA. The SSD would still work.

I would not worry at all about doing anything special for an SSD, other than maybe turning off automatic defragmentation. Unless you plan to write tens of terabytes to it anyway. Used plenty of SSDs in all kinds of operating systems that never supported trim; trim is much never than SSDs.

Reply 15 of 19, by konc

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buckeye wrote on 2022-08-31, 18:20:

Googling led me to ICH9R/DO/DH, can anyone back me up on this?

Yep, for the 82801IR you need to select ICH9R, so the "ICH9R/DO/DH" entry seems correct.

Reply 16 of 19, by buckeye

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javispedro1 wrote on 2022-09-01, 09:59:

I am not familiar with nLite but can't you just pick _all_ "controllers"? They all refer to the same binary so it's not going to use any more space on your image.

That's correct, I just rushed through it the first time. Nlite is a pretty slick program!

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Geforce2 GTS 64MB SB Audigy 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 17 of 19, by buckeye

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Success!!! But not without some severe headaches. Apparently I used the wrong sata/ahci drivers on the slipstreamed install as it kept blue screening.
Luckily I was able to find the floppy disc that came with the mobo and with a usb floppy drive it all went without a hitch!

The improvement on the boot time with the ssd floored me, I expected it to be fast but not THAT fast. Now onto the "beloved" XP activation adventure!

Many thanks to all who chimed in!

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Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Geforce2 GTS 64MB SB Audigy 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W

Reply 19 of 19, by buckeye

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ptr1ck wrote on 2022-09-19, 23:02:

Yep that's exactly how I did it! Thanks anyhow!

Intel D865GL Pentium 4 2.4ghz. 512MB DDR 400 Geforce2 GTS 64MB SB Audigy 500W 98SE
Intel SE440BX P3 450 256MB 40GB Voodoo 3000 16MB SB 32pnp 350W 98SE
MSI x570 Gaming Pro Carbon Ryzen 3700x 32GB DDR4 Zotac RTX 3070 8GB WD Black 1TB 850W