edit: Maybe something phil does is different than how you are doing it. Did you download DOS Benchmark Pack ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o1LB4GMpZOU

Not sure, my experience was more like yours but I had a PCCHIPS motherboard and a sis chipset, what brand board and yes bios settings should be reviewed

Yes I am using the DOSBENCH pack

Unfortunately it's a prebuilt. Board is manufactured by Intel but that's all I know. Bios has next to no options in it unfortunately. Went through and everything looked OK, no settings obviously incorrect.

I think I will go get an old 200MMX machine out of storage with a newer 430 chipset to test it out with this 200 non-mmx for comparison.

Are there any software tweaks I should be running? My DOS knowledge is pretty limited. The DOSBENCH suite has fastvid but I think those are only for newer chipsets.

I did look at univbe, made no differenct at all on the Mach64 card, and Voodoo3 and TNT2 are unsupported.

Can you post a picture of your board ? P-200 versus P-200MMX is only maybe a 5-10% improvement in DOS games iirc as per your chart above.
Try running cachechk and post the results (is in Phils pack)....

Hey picture you provided used 320x240 instead of 640x480 res you were runing . So your results might be ok . As for Duke there is no 3d acceleration and theoreticaly should be same results with each card.

mb, not gb 🤣

do you mean two 32s or two 64s?

To comment more on this though, can you drop the ultimate retro link to your mobo if you can? 😀

are you running from dos native or windows dos, or rebooting to dos from windows? which windows if so?

there is another thread here recently where they had bad performance on the cache. it is unresolved ATM but an idea I had was it might be stuck in write through policy. long shot.

does anyone know if there is a program that lets you play with or see what is going on with wt/wb through software?

prebuild with no tweaking bios options can easily run 20-30% slower than intended

I have some progress. Interestingly, after a couple of hours of research I learned that there is an MR Bios hack available for my board variant. Lo and behold, after installation I am now getting 45fps in Quake with the TNT2, and about 40fps with the Mach 64. I went through all the options and memory was set to 'aggressive' by default! Duke3d showing also correct performance.

So it would seem the original bios gimps the performance and everyone here suspecting ram and cache settings was correct.

In the process of reading what little Intel documentation still exists for the Advanced/Monaco board, I also discovered that the board was set to feed the CPU 3.6V intseat of 3.3 volts, which would explain why the thing ran so hot that it needed socket 370 heatsink/fan. Hopefully with this I can go back to using the original low-profile heatsink. The otiginal processor was a Pentium 133, so maybe it was an early enough example that it needed 3.6V?

I will re-flash the original bios just for testing as I would like to find out if I can get the original working correctly.

Horun wrote on 2022-09-24, 01:44:

Can you post a picture of your board ?

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/ast-ad … -612-221475-f01 which is a custom variant of https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/intel- … anced-ma-monaco

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-24, 05:58:

do you mean two 32s or two 64s? […]
Show full quote

do you mean two 32s or two 64s?

To comment more on this though, can you drop the ultimate retro link to your mobo if you can? 😀

are you running from dos native or windows dos, or rebooting to dos from windows? which windows if so?

there is another thread here recently where they had bad performance on the cache. it is unresolved ATM but an idea I had was it might be stuck in write through policy. long shot.

does anyone know if there is a program that lets you play with or see what is going on with wt/wb through software?

Two 32s to make 64. I was thinking also there was a ram caching issue with the board, so I put in two 4mb EDO sticks that I knew work well, and same result.

Not sure what that website is. Google return links I posted above.

I tried both native dos (f8, command prompt only) and also exiting windows, no difference. I use Windows 95 osr 2.1

Can you link the other thread?

does anyone know if there is a program that lets you play with or see what is going on with wt/wb through software?

Would like to know this as well! I'm going to need to look into a way to enable hidden bios features also. I think it's Phoenix bios though so no idea if tools exist to do it. I may just stick with the hacked MrBios because it also has large disk support but I would really like to learn how to fix the original dud bios. I have an NEC Ready MMX machine with the next newer version of this board and same locked bios, but it performs exactly as expected so this is something AST must have messed up.

Does anyone have a default intel bios for the Monaco board? AST part number ends in BU0Q, while inte's ends in BU0D

Looking at Mach64 documentation http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/home/item … 2-ati-mach64-ct
2MB models allow for faster refresh rate in some modes suggesting adding more ram widens memory bus by x2 and speeds up ram transfer speeds.
For example 2MB models allow for 1024x768 90Hz at 8 bit while 1MB top out at 75Hz. Same with 640x480 90Hz at 24bit versus 75Hz.
quick search on vogons confirms this theory Graphics memory upgrade - DRAM interchange (mach64 CT)
sadly
>No performance increase in dos games though, which is a bummer

rasz_pl wrote on 2022-09-24, 19:18:

Looking at Mach64 documentation http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/home/item … 2-ati-mach64-ct 2MB models allow for faster refr […]
Show full quote

Looking at Mach64 documentation http://www.vgamuseum.info/index.php/home/item … 2-ati-mach64-ct
2MB models allow for faster refresh rate in some modes suggesting adding more ram widens memory bus by x2 and speeds up ram transfer speeds.
For example 2MB models allow for 1024x768 90Hz at 8 bit while 1MB top out at 75Hz. Same with 640x480 90Hz at 24bit versus 75Hz.
quick search on vogons confirms this theory Graphics memory upgrade - DRAM interchange (mach64 CT)
sadly
>No performance increase in dos games though, which is a bummer

Yes that was my thread! Zero difference between 1mb and 2mb. However, now that the machine is performing the way it should (no ram/cache bottleneck) I will be investigating what removing 1mb of vram does to the performance!

Honestly the mach64 now is "good enough" that I might avoid using the TNT2 altogether. There are only two PCI slots so if I want to add a Voodoo card, that means no fast ethernet and/or no USB. I dunno yet.

I have two other socket 7 machines that are better than this one in every measurable way but since this is the same machine I had as a kid and it has a real onboard OPL3 chip I can't let it go. One day I will make a thread to show off the other machines.

Seems like a mr bios might be far superior to the oem one

Re: Diy modding support for k6+And 120gb hard drives into bios roms be worth asking jan about oem bios if it is award. He doesn’t do much with other brands it seems though

Usb2.0 add in cards usually slows systems down Use a usb 1.1 card not a 2.0 try both and benchmark if you have both

Re: Board has L2 Cache Slots but no Option in Bios and Jumpers not there

Would be interesting to know what settings exactly changed with new bios.

I’ll share this post in the other thread.

Do you have the cpu power module?
Re: IBM Personal Computer 365 / M/T: 6589-17U / Voltage Regulator Module (VRM)

AST-AUTISMO wrote on 2022-09-24, 18:03:

https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/ast-ad … -612-221475-f01 which is a custom variant of https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/intel- … anced-ma-monaco

You probably have all the Advanced MA other docs but attached them (found them scattered in my archives, some from Viglen, elhvb, rcollins.org and Intel?).
The .hlp file will open under Win9x or XP 32bit or Win7 with Winhlp32 stub...there is a Tech Prod Summary but no Tech Prod spec...
Not the same as having the AST docs but maybe they can provide some info though most are late 1995/early 1996

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-24, 19:50:

Re: Diy modding support for k6+And 120gb hard drives into bios roms be worth asking jan about oem bios if it is award. He doesn’t do much with other brands it seems though

I will try to identify the bios. Award seems to have a tool to enable and modify defaults.

Usb2.0 add in cards usually slows systems down Use a usb 1.1 card not a 2.0 try both and benchmark if you have both
Re: Board has L2 Cache Slots but no Option in Bios and Jumpers not there

Thanks, good to know. I have read there are combined ethernet/usb PCI cards out there but haven't been able to find one. I might just end up with a USB/ISA card, since I only really care about it to transfer the occasional driver/game.

Do you have the cpu power module?
Re: IBM Personal Computer 365 / M/T: 6589-17U / Voltage Regulator Module (VRM)

No, in my VRM slot is just a plain jumper board with no components on it. Why would I need this VRM? I don't imagine one will enable split rail required by MMX would it? Besides it looks like a resistor needs to be added between a couple pins o the socket too for MMX.

Horun wrote on 2022-09-24, 21:53:

You probably have all the Advanced MA other docs but attached them (found them scattered in my archives, some from Viglen, elhvb, rcollins.org and Intel?).
The .hlp file will open under Win9x or XP 32bit or Win7 with Winhlp32 stub...there is a Tech Prod Summary but no Tech Prod spec...
Not the same as having the AST docs but maybe they can provide some info though most are late 1995/early 1996

THANK YOU! In fact I had the jumper/spec page but none of this other documentation! Thanks so much for posting!

That socket/slot whatever you want to call it is for split rail indeed. Should you decide you want that.

Usb isa cards aren’t really usb per se. more storage emulators. Idk all their limitations.

There are some multi cards out there, avoid via ones they can be buggy. I have a really cool via one kinda to collect that was known for basically being a cool paperweight 🤣 has sata pata usb if I recall it’s lineup, possibly firewire also. Wpuld have to look at it again, been a few months.

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-25, 11:51:

That socket/slot whatever you want to call it is for split rail indeed. Should you decide you want that.

This is something I am very interested in as I'd like to run an MMX chip for its L1 cache improvements. Can you point me to some more information? What kind of module is needed and are any other modifications required to achieve split rail for MMX?

AST-AUTISMO wrote on 2022-09-25, 17:03:

Sphere478 wrote on 2022-09-25, 11:51:

That socket/slot whatever you want to call it is for split rail indeed. Should you decide you want that.

This is something I am very interested in as I'd like to run an MMX chip for its L1 cache improvements. Can you point me to some more information? What kind of module is needed and are any other modifications required to achieve split rail for MMX?

Re: IBM Personal Computer 365 / M/T: 6589-17U / Voltage Regulator Module (VRM)

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J0NLGfocviU

I NEED ADVICE. I AM LOOKING FOR ANY MOTHERBOARD [ROM FOR PCEM] THAT HAS A PENTIUM 200 AND A GAMEPORT. PLEASE WRITE TO ME ON MY TELEGRAM [MWMILLENNIUM]

AST-AUTISMO wrote on 2022-09-24, 18:03:

In the process of reading what little Intel documentation still exists for the Advanced/Monaco board, I also discovered that the board was set to feed the CPU 3.6V intseat of 3.3 volts, which would explain why the thing ran so hot that it needed socket 370 heatsink/fan. Hopefully with this I can go back to using the original low-profile heatsink. The otiginal processor was a Pentium 133, so maybe it was an early enough example that it needed 3.6V?

Pentium processors have a marking whether they require "extended voltage" (i.e. 3.5V nominal, also known as "VRE"), or can run at "standard voltage" (i.e. 3.3V nominal). As I heard the story, most P200 non-MMX were rated at extended voltage, so a 3.6V makes a lot of sense for a 200MHz pentium. Most 133MHz pentiums were specified for standard voltage, though.

At the bottom side on your processor, there should be a three-letter code after the S-Spec number. The S-Spec number is something like "SY045". If that three-letter code starts with a "V", that processor is not specified to run stable at 3.3V. At CPU-world, I found multiple photos of Pentium 200 processors reading "VSU". Each letter is either "S" to mean "standard", or a special letter to indicate a specification deviation. The first letter is the "V"oltage letter. The final letter is the "U"niprocessor letter (so a processor labelled "U" instead of "S" is not specified to work in dual-pentium mainboards). I don't remember what the central letter is for.

beachboy1122 wrote on 2023-08-11, 17:36:

I NEED ADVICE. I AM LOOKING FOR ANY MOTHERBOARD [ROM FOR PCEM] THAT HAS A PENTIUM 200 AND A GAMEPORT. PLEASE WRITE TO ME ON MY TELEGRAM [MWMILLENNIUM]

IM NOT FAMILIAR WITH ANY PENTIUM 200 MOTHERBAORDS WITH BUILD-IN GAMEPORTS