Quite a few nice boards there. Personally, I would not let the following escape: Asus P3B-F, Asus P2B, MSI MS-6163 Ver 2, Aopen AX6BC, Asus TXP4-X.
But that's just me.... 😁

bloodem wrote on 2022-11-09, 19:15:

Quite a few nice boards there. Personally, I would not let the following escape: Asus P3B-F, Asus P2B, MSI MS-6163 Ver 2, Aopen AX6BC, Asus TXP4-X.
But that's just me.... 😁

Thanks! Big ASUS fan. But I can't pick them all. I guess the TXP4 has the TX chipset which I've heard is solid.

Yes P3B-F or TXP4 but for me it would be the Gigabyte GA-586ATV, is a good board for AT and it can do K6-2 up to 400 from one source so would probably be my choice IF I could only choose one Soc7 😀

Horun wrote on 2022-11-10, 06:15:

Yes P3B-F or TXP4 but for me it would be the Gigabyte GA-586ATV, is a good board for AT and it can do K6-2 up to 400 from one source so would probably be my choice IF I could only choose one Soc7 😀

Thanks! Maybe you just persuaded me to go for an AT system 😀

You mention that you already have a P2-233 machine, and your goal is to just play DOS games. All of the Socket 7 boards in this lot are late and pretty fast, the difference between them and your Pentium 2 machine just isn't big enough. You'll have a new build that will overlap your current system in 90% of cases and will require software tweaks for a lot of those 10% extra games.

Windows 95 doesn't really have a lot of issues with DOS games. Pentium 2 machines are also perfectly compatible. There are speed sensitive games, but to play those without tweaks, you'll need something much slower than a late Pentium MMX/AMD K6 — like a 386/486 or sometimes even an XT.

Of course, if you just want another build, go for it, there are a lot of nice boards in this lot. But that's a different story 😀

jheronimus wrote on 2022-11-10, 08:26:

You mention that you already have a P2-233 machine, and your goal is to just play DOS games. All of the Socket 7 boards in this lot are late and pretty fast, the difference between them and your Pentium 2 machine just isn't big enough. You'll have a new build that will overlap your current system in 90% of cases and will require software tweaks for a lot of those 10% extra games.

Windows 95 doesn't really have a lot of issues with DOS games. Pentium 2 machines are also perfectly compatible. There are speed sensitive games, but to play those without tweaks, you'll need something much slower than a late Pentium MMX/AMD K6 — like a 386/486 or sometimes even an XT.

Of course, if you just want another build, go for it, there are a lot of nice boards in this lot. But that's a different story 😀

That's an excellent point, and I'm aware that we're talking very incremental differences here between most Socket 7 systems and early PII systems. This is more of a collector's bug purchase than anything rational (It's a sickness).

Simmerhead wrote on 2022-11-10, 11:51:

That's an excellent point, and I'm aware that we're talking very incremental differences here between most Socket 7 systems and early PII systems. This is more of a collector's bug purchase than anything rational (It's a sickness).

Got you, nothing wrong with that 😀

If I had to choose between those, I'd probably pick the Asus TXP4-X and ask the seller to swap the chip for Pentium MMX 166 — probably the most compatible when it comes to DOS (fastest sub-200 MHz Socket 7 chip, has MMX registers for setmul). ATX certainly takes the cake when it comes to making comfortable, clean builds. Quite a bit bigger than baby AT though. Note that most other ATX boards in this lot have early single row ATX I/O, they require a special shield. Can be found or made/3D printed, but it seems redundant, since otherwise those boards have the same chipset and features.

If going AT is okay, my second choice would probably be the Abit AB-PX5. One of a few Socket 7 boards with CPU Soft Menu (jumperless CPU setup through BIOS). Could be fun to toy around and select different CPU speeds at boot time. I think only Abit and QDI did those.

Third choice would be the MSI 430FX one — the earliest out of the bunch. It's more of a symbolic thing though — it's a late board with pipeline-burst cache, so it's somewhat similar in performance to later 430VX/TX boards (unlike early Socket 5 430FX boards with 486-style async cache in DIP chips). Also it has a Dallas clock chip, and if it's not socketed, could be a pain to replace.

jheronimus wrote on 2022-11-10, 08:26:

You mention that you already have a P2-233 machine, and your goal is to just play DOS games. All of the Socket 7 boards in this lot are late and pretty fast, the difference between them and your Pentium 2 machine just isn't big enough. You'll have a new build that will overlap your current system in 90% of cases and will require software tweaks for a lot of those 10% extra games.

Windows 95 doesn't really have a lot of issues with DOS games. Pentium 2 machines are also perfectly compatible. There are speed sensitive games, but to play those without tweaks, you'll need something much slower than a late Pentium MMX/AMD K6 — like a 386/486 or sometimes even an XT.

This is not accurate at all.

The Pentium 2 is a VERY inflexible CPU. It can either be fast or WAY too slow when you disable the L1 cache.

The Pentium MMX, on the other hand, has a big advantage in this regard: less sensitive to the L1 cache being disabled (because it still benefits from the external motherboard cache - which can also be toggled as needed), and, even more importantly: the test registers, which allow you to disable branch prediction, L1 data cache, L1 instruction cache, etc.
By mixing all of these options together + changing the motherboard FSB speed, you can effectively hit all speed points: slow 386, fast 386, slow 486, fast 486, slow pentium, fast pentium and almost anything in between. Even better, with the help of the test registers, you don't even have to worry about games such as Ultima VII that re-enable the L1 cache, you can just disable the data cache and instruction cache (although I do believe that there is a patch for Ultima VII now, which prevents it from doing it - but if you want to play the vanilla version, you can do it on a Pentium MMX, while on the Pentium 2 you can only do it via software throttling which is far from being ideal).

So, no, the Pentium 2 doesn't even come CLOSE to the Pentium MMX when it comes to DOS gaming.

bloodem wrote on 2022-11-10, 13:33:

This is not accurate at all. […]
Show full quote

This is not accurate at all.

The Pentium 2 is a VERY inflexible CPU. It can either be fast or WAY too slow when you disable the L1 cache.

<...>

So, no, the Pentium 2 doesn't even come CLOSE to the Pentium MMX when it comes to DOS gaming.

The OP originally mentioned "minimal amount of hassle" though. Without tweaks and setmul both chips will have issues with largely the same games and PMMX would simply be a slower processor.

jheronimus wrote on 2022-11-10, 13:54:

The OP originally mentioned "minimal amount of hassle" though. Without tweaks and setmul both chips will have issues with largely the same games and PMMX would simply be a slower processor.

I mean, for all intents and purposes, setmul is all you'll ever need for 99% of cases. Hardly a hassle, IMO. 😀

In windows 9x central tweaking unit is nice for lowering multis and messing with cache.

Looks like there may? be a sis ss7 board there? Grab that one, prob a fun one to play with, I don’t know much about it though.

The rest look like 430tx? If so,
256mb max, sometimes up to 83mhz fsb
Only 64mb cachable unless k6-3, k6-2+, k6-3+ then full 256mb is good to go.

Watch out for ones that say socket 7 but only have one regulator. Didn’t look too close, in a rush here, just skimmed.

I would try to find a Super 7 board with faster FSB, AGP and options for K6+ chips....but that's just me.
Pretty much always my answer 😀

Thanks all. Great info.

The "cache hack" on the PII-233 hasn't worked out so good for me. It becomes too slow, so if an earlier Pentium MMX is better for that, it would certainly be a better DOS gaming platform. I'm a huge fan of Test Drive III, which is very speed sensitive.

Simmerhead wrote on 2022-11-10, 16:30:

Thanks all. Great info.

The "cache hack" on the PII-233 hasn't worked out so good for me. It becomes too slow, so if an earlier Pentium MMX is better for that, it would certainly be a better DOS gaming platform. I'm a huge fan of Test Drive III, which is very speed sensitive.

This should be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8s0H5_-SRU
Truthfully, a Pentium MMX is ideal for DOS gaming (except for late era DOS games like Duke Nukem 3D, where the faster the CPU, the better).

This thread has inspired me to revisit my SS7 ALi V board, setting up a small mATX build with K6-3+ and a Voodoo 3 😀 Definitely not hassle-free, but kinda fun. Playing the "let's pick a working combination of drivers and tweaks" right now.

Also threw 98lite into the mix. Super Socket 7 definitely feels like the kind of the system people would tweak the hell out of, right up there with Mendocino Celerons.

Thanks again all for all your help!

I ended up ordering four of the boards in the ad, three "Socket 7" and one "Slot 1". Got a few additional items as well, among them a Chieftec case and a bunch of old ASUS AGP GeForce cards (RIVA TNT M64, Geforce 2 MX, Geforce 4 MX 440, Geforce 4 Ti 4200, FX 5700 LE + FX 6700GT).

My motherboard picks:

ASUS TX4P-W (Socket 7). Nice solid chipset and a K6 CPU (which I haven't used before).

ASUS SP97-XV (Socket 7). Interesting SiS chipset, and a rare (in my neck of the woods) Pentium 75MHz CPU. Will make a great DOS PC if the chipset isn't misbehaving. Nice to have something close to a 486 with all the benefits of the ATX standard. My Pentium 100 AT system is currently without a PSU, and I will retire it.

Aopen AX5T (Socket 7). Comes with a Pentium 200 MMX, which CPU might end up being my daily driver. I only have room for one permanent Socket 7 system.

ASUS P3B-F (Socket 1). Comes with a 450MHz CPU that will make a nice Windows 95/98 machine and bridge the gap between the Socket 7 system and my Socket 370 systems. Will replace my current P2B with Pentium II 233 CPU.

jheronimus wrote on 2022-11-12, 16:01:

This thread has inspired me to revisit my SS7 ALi V board, setting up a small mATX build with K6-3+ and a Voodoo 3 😀 Definitely not hassle-free, but kinda fun. Playing the "let's pick a working combination of drivers and tweaks" right now.

Also threw 98lite into the mix. Super Socket 7 definitely feels like the kind of the system people would tweak the hell out of, right up there with Mendocino Celerons.

Sounds fun! Please share a few photos!