You can't do this with Windows 10. But you can do it with Linux+Samba.

A better way is to use FTP. If you want something easy, get FileZilla.

For FTP in DOS on the command line, use MTCP.

Put all your files in a single ZIP and transfer it, then use PKUNZIP or 7-Zip to extract.

keenmaster486 wrote on 2022-12-22, 22:26:

You can't do this with Windows 10. But you can do it with Linux+Samba. […]
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You can't do this with Windows 10. But you can do it with Linux+Samba.

A better way is to use FTP. If you want something easy, get FileZilla.

For FTP in DOS on the command line, use MTCP.

Put all your files in a single ZIP and transfer it, then use PKUNZIP or 7-Zip to extract.

so i' cant navigate the folder on my Laptop win10 using Win3.11 on my 486 retro machine?

It is possible with Windows 10 and 11 if the older SMBv1 protocol is enabled in "Turn Windows features on or off" and having the NDIS driver installed on the older computer, but I strongly recommend against that.

As keenmaster486 stated, use FTP to transfer files between an old and a modern computer. You would need to get the packet driver for the 3C509 NIC loaded prior configuring and using mTCP.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 22:54:

It is possible with Windows 10 and 11 if the older SMBv1 protocol is enabled in "Turn Windows features on or off" and having the NDIS driver installed on the older computer, but I strongly recommend against that.

As keenmaster486 stated, use FTP to transfer files between an old and a modern computer. You would need to get the packet driver for the 3C509 NIC loaded prior configuring and using mTCP.

why "strongly recommend against that"? All computer are off the internet NET connection during the process.

AlessandroB wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:01:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 22:54:

It is possible with Windows 10 and 11 if the older SMBv1 protocol is enabled in "Turn Windows features on or off" and having the NDIS driver installed on the older computer, but I strongly recommend against that.

As keenmaster486 stated, use FTP to transfer files between an old and a modern computer. You would need to get the packet driver for the 3C509 NIC loaded prior configuring and using mTCP.

why "strongly recommend against that"? All computer are off the internet NET connection during the process.

SMBv1 will be enabled at all times which is something you don't want, no matter if you disable the connection to the internet during the process. Toggling the feature requires restarting the computer.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:11:

AlessandroB wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:01:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 22:54:

It is possible with Windows 10 and 11 if the older SMBv1 protocol is enabled in "Turn Windows features on or off" and having the NDIS driver installed on the older computer, but I strongly recommend against that.

As keenmaster486 stated, use FTP to transfer files between an old and a modern computer. You would need to get the packet driver for the 3C509 NIC loaded prior configuring and using mTCP.

why "strongly recommend against that"? All computer are off the internet NET connection during the process.

SMBv1 will be enabled at all times which is something you don't want, no matter if you disable the connection to the internet during the process. Toggling the feature requires restarting the computer.

What if instead I put a small NAS on the network with SMB V1 sharing? I could not access it from win10 with the most modern samba activated?

AlessandroB wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:15:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:11:

AlessandroB wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:01:

why "strongly recommend against that"? All computer are off the internet NET connection during the process.

SMBv1 will be enabled at all times which is something you don't want, no matter if you disable the connection to the internet during the process. Toggling the feature requires restarting the computer.

What if instead I put a small NAS on the network with SMB V1 sharing? I could not access it from win10 with the most modern samba activated?

If the NAS also supports later versions of SMB protocol, it can be accessed from Windows 10. Just make sure that it doesn't have any access to the internet.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:22:

AlessandroB wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:15:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:11:

SMBv1 will be enabled at all times which is something you don't want, no matter if you disable the connection to the internet during the process. Toggling the feature requires restarting the computer.

What if instead I put a small NAS on the network with SMB V1 sharing? I could not access it from win10 with the most modern samba activated?

If the NAS also supports later versions of SMB protocol, it can be accessed from Windows 10. Just make sure that it doesn't have any access to the internet.

Freenas has support for smb1, it is not secure to activate it?

AlessandroB wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:15:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:11:

AlessandroB wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:01:

why "strongly recommend against that"? All computer are off the internet NET connection during the process.

SMBv1 will be enabled at all times which is something you don't want, no matter if you disable the connection to the internet during the process. Toggling the feature requires restarting the computer.

What if instead I put a small NAS on the network with SMB V1 sharing? I could not access it from win10 with the most modern samba activated?

This may work for a time. I can connect to my NAS from Windows 10, and a a lot of older operating systems can connect to the NAS fine.

But SMBv1 has, by modern standards, abysmal security which has been exploited by ransomware attacks in the past. For this reason Microsoft strongly encourages anyone shipping SMB implementations to disable and/or remove SMBv1 support. SMBv1 is disabled by default in Windows today and Microsoft has committed to removing it entirely in the future. It's also disabled by default in Samba with the Samba people having removed some bits of it recently.

So SMB isn't really an option long-term - what works today will most likely break in the next few years unless you keep it out-of-date. For this and other reasons I largely gave up on trying to use SMB with vintage machines - if you want network drives there are alternatives that don't involve running insecure SMB configurations but if you don't have any linux knowledge they might be a bit difficult.

davidrg wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:36:

This may work for a time. I can connect to my NAS from Windows 10, and a a lot of older operating systems can connect to the NAS […]
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AlessandroB wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:15:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2022-12-22, 23:11:

SMBv1 will be enabled at all times which is something you don't want, no matter if you disable the connection to the internet during the process. Toggling the feature requires restarting the computer.

What if instead I put a small NAS on the network with SMB V1 sharing? I could not access it from win10 with the most modern samba activated?

This may work for a time. I can connect to my NAS from Windows 10, and a a lot of older operating systems can connect to the NAS fine.

But SMBv1 has, by modern standards, abysmal security which has been exploited by ransomware attacks in the past. For this reason Microsoft strongly encourages anyone shipping SMB implementations to disable and/or remove SMBv1 support. SMBv1 is disabled by default in Windows today and Microsoft has committed to removing it entirely in the future. It's also disabled by default in Samba with the Samba people having removed some bits of it recently.

So SMB isn't really an option long-term - what works today will most likely break in the next few years unless you keep it out-of-date. For this and other reasons I largely gave up on trying to use SMB with vintage machines - if you want network drives there are alternatives that don't involve running insecure SMB configurations but if you don't have any linux knowledge they might be a bit difficult.

No, my linux knowledge are close to ZERO. Interesting your future scenario about smb1... so better to swap Compact flash.

The IDE/atapi versione of ZIP drive, can be used in dos and remove the disk when computer is on to add more file and put in the computer again? Or each time i insert a zip disk i must reboot the computer? In parallel versione i remember i can remove the disk with pc ON.

Or using something like FTP. Network drives are awfully convenient though - run software straight from the network, or install it straight from the network. Everything always available without having to shuffle CF cards/Zip disks/floppies/CDs.

But all the non-SMB network drive options require Linux, or virtualising old operating systems. And of those two options, only Linux has a modern SMB implementation allowing you to share one folder via both modern SMB and some vintage protocol.

They can pry SMBv1 from my cold dead hands 🤣. Out of the box compatibility from Windows 3.11 and upwards. It works fine today and I will use it until I absolutely cannot! Love being able to run apps remotely, write effortlessly and mount ISO without copying.

For the record I use samba on a raspberry pi,but I think on easy mode one can just get one of those XP netbooks from the mid 2000s, share a folder and voila instant network server.

Yeah, being there out-of-the-box on Windows for Workgroups 3.1 and newer is a pretty big advantage.

I played around with Mars NWE several months back on a Raspberry Pi a bit and found it worked pretty well. The client software for DOS uses much less conventional memory, and under Windows it works about as well as SMB. Much easier to get working with OS/2 than the native OS/2 networking stuff too. It is harder to setup than Samba but I guess once you've got it up and running there probably isn't any reason to mess with it outside of linux kernel upgrades (it relies on an out-of-tree kernel module). And I guess as a bonus it doesn't run over TCP/IP so its completely invisible to anything newer than Server 2003 making it a bit less of a security hazard than antique SMB.

So my plan in the new year is to set up both Mars NWE and Samba on a Pi with both sharing the same folders so I can access everything from everywhere without issues.

davidrg wrote on 2022-12-23, 03:00:

I played around with Mars NWE several months back on a Raspberry Pi a bit and found it worked pretty well. The client software for DOS uses much

Supposedly Netware RPL in conjunction with IPX and Netware File services should allow you to make Win95/98 true diskless boot machines running fully from a "netware" volume (aka, your configured NWE share) with full filesharing services after boot (you don't lost shares during boot like with the builtin TCPIP stack, an special VxD allows the "swapping" from 16bit mode TSR driver to 32bit VxD IPX stack seamlessy). I don't know why someone would ever like to do that, given such mode doesn't play very well with WDM NT executive core (NTKERN.vxd), but is always good to know the alternative exist and can be done.

hyoenmadan wrote on 2022-12-23, 03:23:

davidrg wrote on 2022-12-23, 03:00:

I played around with Mars NWE several months back on a Raspberry Pi a bit and found it worked pretty well. The client software for DOS uses much

Supposedly Netware RPL in conjunction with IPX and Netware File services should allow you to make Win95/98 true diskless boot machines running fully from a "netware" volume (aka, your configured NWE share) with full filesharing services after boot (you don't lost shares during boot like with the builtin TCPIP stack, an special VxD allows the "swapping" from 16bit mode TSR driver to 32bit VxD IPX stack seamlessy). I don't know why someone would ever like to do that, given such mode doesn't play very well with WDM NT executive core (NTKERN.vxd), but is always good to know the alternative exist and can be done.

Yep - I've not tried booting from Mars NWE, but I have a virtualised NetWare 4.11 instance I've successfully booted DOS, Windows 95 and OS/2 Warp 3 from. For Windows 95 it has to be the original retail release (or maybe the first OSR - network booting was supposedly removed in OSR2) and at least for the first boot you've got to use an ISA NIC. Network booted Windows 95 is pretty weird - you login half way through the boot splash and then the login script runs when you get to the GUI, there is no log-off option, and shutdown just reboots the machine (same as the reboot option).

Windows 95 here is just confused - there is no floppy drive. Its disabled in the BIOS and none is plugged in, but windows insists there must be one.

Windows 4, 5 shouldn't be allowed to see the internet anymore, imho. They're full of security holes.

And SMB1 aka CIFS.. It's very chatty and can't use modern encryption.
It's somewhat aking to early AFP (AppleTalk) in this regard.

One could set an invalid gateway and dns on the network configuration of the system running the FTP/SMBv1 and essentially block internet access.

if the share is used only for retro computing transfers (ie non sensitive stuff), and those transfers stay within your NAT, i don't see how this is a security concern.

No need for stuff like that imho.
As long as you don't do inbound nat on your router and give your retro machine a direct inbound link from the internet, there is no way one could exploit these old protocols from there. Bir the golden way is putting all retro stuff in a separate network/ vlan. This net can potentially reach the internet, but the router does nat and no internal service is exposed by default!

Just be careful with things like shadow networks.

PCs with two network stacks could overcome certain barriers.

That's important to keep in mind with everything having both IPv4/IPv6 activated, simultaneously.

https://www.networkcomputing.com/networking/s … pv6-side-effect