Main issue is low profile video cards and SFF *rarely* have AGP. Most are PCIe and cut off is 915 chipset for win98se.

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-02-01, 00:45:

Main issue is low profile video cards and SFF *rarely* have AGP. Most are PCIe and cut off is 915 chipset for win98se.

Cheers,

Plenty of gf4mx and fx5200 in low profile agp. Good cards tho...

Imho these HP Elites are neither small enough, nor compatible enough to worth shooting for as a compact W98 PC on the side of an XP PC. It greatly overlaps with early XP and leaves early W9x and mid-to-late DOS lacking. The limitation of low-profile cards are also bad even more so when it comes to sound cards rather than graphics cards. No hardware accelerated positional audio or even decent FM synthesis with these.

A compact W98 PC can be done much better if custom built based on Pentium II or Pentium III.

I've a pair of Compaq D510's which had official Win98 support from HP although looks like they have since removed it's page entirely from the website.
Not that it matters, onboard intel graphics, nice and 845G chipset all use easy to find generic drivers. Don't remember the onboard Soundmax audio drivers been hard to find either.

I haven't bothered upgrading from onboard video which is enough for RTS's (their main usage) but you do have a low profile AGP slot.
You also get 2 normal size PCI slots. Onboard audio isn't anything special but does allow digital playback thought the internal speaker.

Not my video but shows you what to expect.
https://youtu.be/yTbCeEuGo5o

I actually think it makes a better Win98 PC, then XP where it starts to lack power pretty quick.
But any P4 for Win98 is overkill which means you have power in reserve that may hide the average onboard video (up to a point)
or even if you cant find a good AGP low profile card something like a PCI voodoo or TNT card is going to suck alot less in 98 then XP.

OK so update and a request for some help here...

So I've decided to try to find an HP \ Compaq Evo D510 Small Form Factor (D51\D51C\D51S) - they seem to be unicorns under $100 for some reason.

Anyway I'm trying to see what the differences are between the D51, D51C and D51S are..... maybe processor\RAM\video combination?

Google is not being my friend here.

I'm not sure either and used to maintain about 40 of these, and didn't notice any difference. (excluding configurable options like CPU, RAM, etc) You could be right as remember Broadcom NIC was an option on the download page but I only ever saw intel nics onboard.

For reference I've got 2 D51S PC's part numbers are interesting as showed how they started life, both now are "maxed out" with 3.06Ghz CPU and 2GB RAM
D51S/P2.4/40/K/256C UK
D51S/P2.5/20/K128C UK

But this page for a D51C lists the same intel graphics and nic.
https://itstillworks.com/compaq-evo-d51c-tech … ions-18455.html

If $100 included shipping it may be worth it. The cases are solid metal so kinda heavy which might be bumping up the cost.

Other option I'm familiar with is the Dell's of this era.
https://youtu.be/wnRCjN936R4

Build quality wasn't up to the same standard to Compaq/HP (which also started slipping after the D510's)
but the lighter plastic casing may help with shipping costs. I should also say Dell seems to suffer from bad capacitors a lot worse then HP round this era.

Thanks Chinny,

I'll continue to look around and eventually snag one.

The whole small form factor idea has worked well for the WinXP solution and my 98SE tower is just HUGE.
Time to take up less real estate....

OK,

System is up and running and all Win98 drivers are in except for the USB 2.o.... I got the 2.0 running using the common nusb33e driver.
(Still shows an issue in Device Manager but works like a charm...)

Ordered a Radeon 9200 SE half height card and should have it here in a few days.

I'm not expecting performance like my "ultimate" 98 rig, but I can already tell it is going to be much easier in the workspace.

I don't remember having the usb device manager thing on mine but then I don't really use USB so maybe I did?
Assuming you installed the latest chipset driver?
I checked my drivers folder on my server on the off chance but only have XP drivers installed, I can tell you sp24210.exe is XP's USB drivers but thats not much help.
Any drivers I do have will be on a partition on the PC's themselves...which are other side of the world so not much use I'm afraid!

As you say it's not really important but kind of annoying all the same

chinny22 wrote on 2023-02-22, 11:25:

I don't remember having the usb device manager thing on mine but then I don't really use USB so maybe I did? Assuming you instal […]
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I don't remember having the usb device manager thing on mine but then I don't really use USB so maybe I did?
Assuming you installed the latest chipset driver?
I checked my drivers folder on my server on the off chance but only have XP drivers installed, I can tell you sp24210.exe is XP's USB drivers but thats not much help.
Any drivers I do have will be on a partition on the PC's themselves...which are other side of the world so not much use I'm afraid!

As you say it's not really important but kind of annoying all the same

Yea,
Not quite sure why it is generating the issue in Device Manager..... but all of the USB ports work like a charm with the generic driver. (USB thumb drives and everything else)
Maybe it's looking for a specific 2.0 driver but I bet there never was one for this particular unit as from what I can tell they were either all XP or Win 2000.
Found some old literature on the model and it states that Windows 98\ME was "supported", but that was it.

Once I get all the hardware where I want it I may get froggy and do a deep dive to fix it.

Right now it is all pulled apart as I'm doing a deep clean and getting ready to swap a P4 2.8 in it.
I also said what the heck and pulled the trigger on a half height Radeon 9550.

I've got to hand it to old Compaq, they did a damn fine job of designing the SFF case regarding ease of maintenance.
The only gripe I have is the "paper" air guide going from the fan to the cpu cooler. Really, they couldn't spring 5 more cents from Taiwan\China for a plastic shield at least?

Anyone out there with a 3D printer and extra time on their hands? 🤣

Anyway, once I get done with everything I'll post a pic of it in its new home.

OK so new update\issue:

The Radeon 9550 is not playing well at all with the unit.

When installed it will power on and then nothing..... no post beep.... no beep codes.... no video.

I know it isn't the motherboard because the old GeForce2 MX works just fine.

The Radeon card shows as a "universal 1.5v AGP 3.0" card and is obviously keyed correctly.

The motherboard has an AGP 1.5v 2.0 slot, and the card "should" be backward compatible.

I'm wondering if the anemic power supply is just refusing to cooperate here.

Any opinions?

UPDATE:

Resolved the Radeon 9550 issue.

For some reason it HATED the DMS-59 to VGA adapter I used.

What would make it not even boot is weird to me.

I put on a DMS-59 to dual VGA splitter and it came right up.... interesting.

Everything up and running except for the CPU upgrade.

I've tried a few games on it and it is flawless as a Win98 gamer, so two thumbs up if anyone wants to try it!

Here's a pic of it right above the XP Small Form Factor PC.... (Both HP\Compaq units)

tomcattech wrote on 2023-02-25, 04:05:

I've got to hand it to old Compaq, they did a damn fine job of designing the SFF case regarding ease of maintenance.
The only gripe I have is the "paper" air guide going from the fan to the cpu cooler. Really, they couldn't spring 5 more cents from Taiwan\China for a plastic shield at least?

Servicing a fleet of these only complaint I had was the notch thingy that stops the flip up shelf the drives screw onto from falling back down would sometime need a something like a knife blade screwdriver to help it unlock but honestly they were a dream to work on. unlike Dell's and even Compaq's own Presario range where sometimes you had to remove HDD's just to add a stick of RAM.

They do stack nice, shame you can't use generic PSU's which will be what kills mine off one day I suspect but you can't have everything.
Your 2 PC's still takes up less then my XP rig. Now all you need a DOS based SFF right 😉 Sadly HP/Compaq wont be much help here. Think all the SFF's dropped ISA. You do have the DeskPro 2000 or 4000 LPX PC's... I'll help you spend you money 😜

UPDATE:

The 2.8 CPU upgrade went off without a hitch.

I replaced the CD read only drive with an HP CD-RW unit that I had laying around
(Keeping the HP\Compaq theme going)

I added a small expansion slot fan to get the air moving

System runs great and I may try to get my hands on a Voodoo3 AGP for an old school Glide solution.

We will see what the prices do on the Bay over the next few months....