VOGONS


First post, by rasz_pl

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https://theretroweb.com/motherboards/s/amstrad-pc1512

I sort of fell in love with this computer after reading/watching Nostalgia Nerd Amstrad PC1512 Retrospective https://www.nostalgianerd.com/amstrad-pc1512/ Doubly so after and ctrl-alt-rees "Amstrad PC1512 Liberation" series
https://ctrl-alt-rees.com/2018-09-10-amstrad- … wer-supply.html
https://ctrl-alt-rees.com/2018-09-25-amstrad- … er-circuit.html
https://ctrl-alt-rees.com/2018-10-16-amstrad- … -prototype.html
and looking at the service manual https://ctrl-alt-rees.com/downloads/amstrad/A … vice_Manual.pdf

What a clever little clone.

  • bespoke Asics. MEJ Electronics (renamed 3Soft in 1992) designed both CPC and PC range for Amstrad. At least for CPC they used LSI, but quickly switched to SGS. SGS Microelettronica became STMicroelectronics in 1987. PC1512 Asics are clearly labelled "JAPAN" so who fabbed them? Casio? Sanyo? MEJ/3Soft itself was bought by Mentor Graphics in 1996, this tells us they were on top of their EDA game.
  • expandability at such low price point
  • cost optimization tricks like supply shared with monitor
  • digital joystick with dual fire buttons plugged into keyboard with elaborate hardware level remapping to keyboard scan codes
  • raw quadrature encoder mouse (like Amiga) with decoder build into memory controller Asic and mouse keys rerouted back to Keyboard controller 😮

All of that to bring the cost down to £449/$799 with monitor in 1986. For comparison noname XT clones in PC Mag from that period cost ~$700-800 without monitor, and somewhat comparable Tandy 1000 EX (less ram) was $1000. Afaik this was even cheaper than Atari 520ST with mono monitor in UK at the time.

I was surprised to not find overclocking mentioned anywhere on the internet. PC1512 uses 24MHz clock gen for main CPU clock, while graphics Asic has separate 28.63636MHz (2x good old 14.31818MHz) https://www.manualslib.com/manual/859355/Amst … ?page=30#manual and the next page. It would be trivial to just route clock from 28MHz generator to both inputs for free 1.5MHz gain. Not to mention trying 30 and 36MHz crystals.

Has anyone tried OC on PC1512? Did asics/ram have sufficient safety margins, or did it ship clocked as fast as it could? Sadly I dont have one to play with 🙁

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 1 of 8, by BitWrangler

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They were willing little machines. A V30 of course was a nice bump. The ones I had kinda spoiled me, in that genuine XTs and low end ATs felt like watching paint dry after the Amstrads. I got mine at junk prices at start of 90s when "Hmm seems this PC thing ain't going away...." to play with, but had to leave them behind in a long distance move unfortunately.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 2 of 8, by astonsmith

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I used to have a PC1512, years ago. It was a nifty machine, not without its flaws, but on the whole good. It already felt quite fast compared to an 8088.
PCem can emulate the machine. I modified the source to make the CPU clock faster, but the system test that occurs when you switch on ("Please wait..." screen) fails with a graphics error. I'm not sure if it's just the mods I made, or if that would happen on the real hardware with a mod.

Reply 3 of 8, by keropi

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I also have a 1512 with a V30 cpu but it feels to me slower than a classic V20/CGA system I have... sure you get the nice amstrad videomodes sometimes but to my understanding the way they implemented the graphics really slowed things down... sometimes I wish I had the 1640 with the proper paradise EGA chip 🤣

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 4 of 8, by rasz_pl

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keropi wrote on 2023-03-09, 11:38:

I also have a 1512 with a V30 cpu but it feels to me slower than a classic V20/CGA system I have... sure you get the nice amstrad videomodes sometimes but to my understanding the way they implemented the graphics really slowed things down... sometimes I wish I had the 1640 with the proper paradise EGA chip 🤣

This is weird. Looking at schematic they use proper separate video ram https://www.ardent-tool.com/datasheets/NEC_uPD41264.pdf on its own bus https://www.manualslib.com/manual/859355/Amst … ?page=31#manual
No funny PCjr reusing main ram for video business here. Do you remember the details? does it have especially slow write speed to video ram?

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 5 of 8, by keropi

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rasz_pl wrote on 2023-03-09, 16:31:

This is weird. Looking at schematic they use proper separate video ram https://www.ardent-tool.com/datasheets/NEC_uPD41264.pdf on its own bus https://www.manualslib.com/manual/859355/Amst … ?page=31#manual
No funny PCjr reusing main ram for video business here. Do you remember the details? does it have especially slow write speed to video ram?

check this thread: https://forum.vcfed.org/index.php?threads/how … and-1640.75387/
it does feel to me slower than my 10mhz hyundai xt but maybe it's placebo/marginal - so take it with a grain of salt 😉

Last edited by keropi on 2023-03-09, 18:29. Edited 2 times in total.

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 6 of 8, by rasz_pl

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keropi wrote on 2023-03-09, 18:25:

thank you
meanwhile I setup few auction side notifications and will hunt for cheap broken/non complete one to tinker with
If someone has broken one in central EU, or would like some mods done (ctrl-alt-rees described supply/CGA output) hit me up.

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction

Reply 7 of 8, by keropi

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yeah it is a nice system to keep an eye out for - especially with the color monitor
but it certainly does not feel like a 8086 system to me , which is a shame but then again at this competitive price some things are to be expected
and let's not forget it's an Amstrad system after all 🤣

🎵 🎧 PCMIDI MPU , OrpheusII , Action Rewind , Megacard and 🎶GoldLib soundcard website

Reply 8 of 8, by rasz_pl

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ah there it is https://www.seasip.info/AmstradXT/1512tech/section1.html "on-board 8 bit I/O and memory peripheral bus with a 4 MHz clock". Yep, BUS ASIC divides 24MHz clock into 8MHz for CPU and 4MHz for ISA bus. Doesnt appear to have any configuration pins for controlling waitstates, unless some are hidden behind multiple ground/supply pins or one of the "Do Not Use" reserved IO ports. Btw curiously POST port 80h is also "Do Not Use".
There is still hope if it can be pushed up to 12MHz CPU clock 😀 that would move ISA to 6MHz.

Open Source AT&T Globalyst/NCR/FIC 486-GAC-2 proprietary Cache Module reproduction