predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 09:34:

That's solid advice. I am going to read many different threads on vogons to find as many options as possible. […]
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That's solid advice. I am going to read many different threads on vogons to find as many options as possible.

Yes it is not suprising at all the opinons and experiences are different. I still have fair show of my old german pc gaming mags I used to read back then. In order to refresh my memory and narrow down options for my buid I start re reading them and while the pentium where the top dogs in the recommendations I also found it funny that the amd stuff especially the K6 was also quite high the recommendations.

I totally forgot that. I though the intel Pentiums where the king. I personally only had Intel CPU back then and was always happy with them.

In fact I was only using until last year when I got my new modern gaming pc with Ryzen cpu. But hat's beyond the point. Just a funny anecdote

I absolutely can't recommend K6 CPUs - I never had a single system die in the 90's except for two AMD systems (as in either motherboard or CPU) that my brother and his girlfriend bought (a few years apart). AMD to me has often gone for speed over stability & longevity knowing they would be more for consumer PCs and as such I don't have a single AMD in any of my retro systems. AMD CPUs also required cooling before Intel CPUs to give you an idea ... . But again, others may have different opinions but I've rarely heard of an Intel CPU downright breaking.

Just one note of warning: if you find a good motherboard that you like, it's a good idea to have it recapped. I'm going to get my boards recapped soon so they last a lot longer and more stable. Leaking caps may not stop your system from running but may or will cause instability and other strange unpredictable issues.

bloodem wrote on 2023-03-24, 09:42:

If you want a "do-it-all" PC or "time machine" as they're sometimes called, my first choice will always be an Athlon XP "Thoroug […]
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predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 07:29:

which would be a double card system witha vodoo 2 and a more later peroid more powerful gpu as second card.

I need to do some more research to find out with more powerful gpu would a good partner for the V2.

If you want a "do-it-all" PC or "time machine" as they're sometimes called, my first choice will always be an Athlon XP "Thoroughbred" CPU on a sturdy KT600 board (like the Asus A7V600-X).

Pair that CPU with a GeForce 4 Ti 4200, a Voodoo 2 and a Sound Blaster Live 5.1 and you've got yourself a PC that can play almost anything. The CPU can also be underclocked down to 500 MHz (with the possibilty of disabling the L1/L2 caches), so... sky's the limit. If you also want excellent DOS compatibility, you have the option of adding a second sound card like a Yamaha YMF724/744 (an excellent PCI card that is actually more compatible than many ISA cards, particularly when used on certain platforms like this one), and you can use Setmul + Throttle for even more granular speed tuning (for speed sensitive DOS games). This will allow you to play most titles released between 1981 and 2002.

I have a few such PCs, and they are by far my "go-to" platforms for fast, fuss-free retro gaming (even though I do love period correct PCs, but for different reasons).

I was more thinking about a period-appropriate vodoo machine but the time machine concept also sounds quite intruiging. i will put this option on my research list as well.

@Red_Avatar Intel cpus are the thing I am most familiar with so I will rather stick to intel for my retro build as well. Have not even considered the early AMD stuff before reading about it.

But that's just my preference. I do not want to say at the old AMD stuff is bad in general. As you already there will some positive opinions about the AMD cpu as well.

red_avatar wrote on 2023-03-24, 09:49:

I absolutely can't recommend K6 CPUs - I never had a single system die in the 90's except for two AMD systems (as in either motherboard or CPU) that my brother and his girlfriend bought (a few years apart). AMD to me has often gone for speed over stability & longevity knowing they would be more for consumer PCs and as such I don't have a single AMD in any of my retro systems. AMD CPUs also required cooling before Intel CPUs to give you an idea ... . But again, others may have different opinions but I've rarely heard of an Intel CPU downright breaking.

Just one note of warning: if you find a good motherboard that you like, it's a good idea to have it recapped. I'm going to get my boards recapped soon so they last a lot longer and more stable. Leaking caps may not stop your system from running but may or will cause instability and other strange unpredictable issues.

Having worked in this business between 2005 and 2014, I can tell you that, in general, damaged CPUs was an extremely rare event and probably still is (not just with Intel, but also with AMD). I think I've only seen ~ 5 dead CPUs in all of those years (a few were AMD and a few were Intel).

Having said that, I do agree that an AMD K6 platform is most certainly not for everyone (unless you knowingly go with it for very specific reasons). The CPUs are fine, the motherboards/chipsets are the main concern.
I for one love this platform, partly because my second PC came with an AMD K6-2 and I have very fond memories with it, and partly because debugging/fixing its weird quirks is part of the fun. And it can be very satisfying: if you do everything right, it can be a very good and stable platform (and a solid time machine PC, as well).

The Athlon XP/KT600 combo, on the other hand, is as solid as it gets and no tinkering/debugging is required. Everything just works (just like with most Pentium 3 / 440BX platforms).

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 09:59:

I was more thinking about a period-appropriate vodoo machine but the time machine concept also sounds quite intruiging. i will put this option on my research list as well.

That's also perfectly fine and I can certainly understand that, I have "a few" of those myself 😁 . Just be careful, though, this can lead to an endless rabbit hole, where once you realize the limitations of a certain platform, you might be inclined to buy another one, and another one, and another one... 😁
Which is why, for people who are just now getting into the "retro hobby" and simply want to have a good gaming experience, I tend to recommend a machine that is fine for most purposes. Of course, such a "time machine" also has its limitations, but most people will never notice them, it will be the only retro PC they'll ever need.

bloodem wrote on 2023-03-24, 10:04:

Having worked in this business between 2005 and 2014, I can tell you that, in general, damaged CPUs was an extremely rare event […]
Show full quote

Having worked in this business between 2005 and 2014, I can tell you that, in general, damaged CPUs was an extremely rare event and probably still is (not just with Intel, but also with AMD). I think I've only seen ~ 5 dead CPUs in all of those years (a few were AMD and a few were Intel).

Having said that, I do agree that an AMD K6 platform is most certainly not for everyone (unless you knowingly go with it for very specific reasons). The CPUs are fine, the motherboards/chipsets are the main concern.
I for one love this platform, partly because my second PC came with an AMD K6-2 and I have very fond memories with it, and partly because debugging/fixing its weird quirks is part of the fun. And it can be very satisfying: if you do everything right, it can be a very good and stable platform (and a solid time machine PC, as well).

The Athlon XP/KT600 combo, on the other hand, is as solid as it gets and no tinkering/debugging is required. Everything just works (just like with most Pentium 3 / 440BX platforms).

It's possible that the CPUs were fine each time but at the time I didn't have any spare parts so it might have been the motherboard as well. Since you agree the motherboards were iffy, it's a good idea to leave it alone unless you really want a 90's AMD system for some reason.

For the early to mid 2000's: since most people switched to AMD until the Core2Duo arrived and since the cap plague was raging at the time (not to mention weird incompatibility issues all round) it's the same story here: systems dying but since mobo & CPU go together, they get replaced together as well. One CPU was definitely fried and this was the AMD Athlon Thunderbird. For some ridiculous reason it came with a tiny fan that was completely inadequate to cool the CPU which would quickly go up to 90°C. It died because the small fan started to wear down and without thermal shutdown existing in the BIOS, it was finished. In this case I DID have a spare CPU (or rather I could swap them between systems) since this was when I finally started to build systems on my own and suddenly my entire family wanted PCs built by me.

None of those dozens of AMD systems I built survived more than 3-4 years - they all started dying after a few years and I started to swap them over to Core2Duo and later i5 CPUs and I never had to replace any of those except because they were ageing. Also: oddly enough I never ran into RAM issues post-2007. Before 2007 I often had bad sticks with the AMD systems. Could this be due to the bad caps? I dunno.

bloodem wrote on 2023-03-24, 10:04:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 09:59:

I was more thinking about a period-appropriate vodoo machine but the time machine concept also sounds quite intruiging. i will put this option on my research list as well.

That's also perfectly fine and I can certainly understand that, I have "a few" of those myself 😁 . Just be careful, though, this can lead to an endless rabbit hole, where once you realize the limitations of a certain platform, you might be inclined to buy another one, and another one, and another one... 😁
Which is why, for people who are just now getting into the "retro hobby" and simply want to have a good gaming experience, I tend to recommend a machine that is fine for most purposes. Of course, such a "time machine" also has its limitations, but most people will never notice them, it will be the only retro PC they'll ever need.

Yeah but it is good you mentioned the time machine concept. It never crossed my mind but it sounds like a cool idea worth considering for sure. I will research it for sure. The Geforce 4200ti is also very interesting card in general.

And you are right. it is indeed a rabid role with all the different options for many different builds from many time frames. A very interesting topic. Really like it.

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 07:29:

Yes it really interesting but also bit intimidating to step into the world of building a retro gaming rig. But I find it mo […]
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Law212 wrote on 2023-03-23, 13:40:

I love seeing these posts of people making new builds. Refreshing to see newbies like me sharing the struggle!

Yes it really interesting but also bit intimidating to step into the world of building a retro gaming rig. But I find it more thrilling than intimidating and I am up to the task.

I have done some further research meanwhile and I think I have 2 options to go.

I will get either a V3 . 3000 AGP system with either one of the pentium 3 or athlon gpu. I need to narrow down the MHZ numbers.

What do you guys think about the cpu choice? is one of of them more preferable over the other?

Or I will go with option B

which would be a double card system witha vodoo 2 and a more later peroid more powerful gpu as second card.

I need to do some more research to find out with more powerful gpu would a good partner for the V2.

I would suggest a P 3 over an athlon. I have a couple athlons and I dont like them .

I have 3 different P3 builds and like them all. Here are my builds. THough I am still playing with them and seeing what I like best.

Pentium 1.
32 megs ram
233 mmx
voodoo 3 pci
windows 98.
My go to system

Pentium 2
256 megs ram
350 mmx
voodoo 2 sli
windows 98

Pentium 3
450 mhz
1 gig ram
radeon 9250

Pentium 3
733 Mhz
1 gig ram
radeon 9250

Pentium 3
Dual cpu 933 Mhz
1 gig ram
Radeon 9250

I am thinking of putting my voodoo 3 agp card into one of the pentium 3s, but the radeon does very well in them. I have a bunch of other cards Im going to try in them as well.

Law212 wrote on 2023-03-24, 15:37:

I would suggest a P 3 over an athlon. I have a couple athlons and I dont like them . […]
Show full quote

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 07:29:

Yes it really interesting but also bit intimidating to step into the world of building a retro gaming rig. But I find it mo […]
Show full quote

Law212 wrote on 2023-03-23, 13:40:

I love seeing these posts of people making new builds. Refreshing to see newbies like me sharing the struggle!

Yes it really interesting but also bit intimidating to step into the world of building a retro gaming rig. But I find it more thrilling than intimidating and I am up to the task.

I have done some further research meanwhile and I think I have 2 options to go.

I will get either a V3 . 3000 AGP system with either one of the pentium 3 or athlon gpu. I need to narrow down the MHZ numbers.

What do you guys think about the cpu choice? is one of of them more preferable over the other?

Or I will go with option B

which would be a double card system witha vodoo 2 and a more later peroid more powerful gpu as second card.

I need to do some more research to find out with more powerful gpu would a good partner for the V2.

I would suggest a P 3 over an athlon. I have a couple athlons and I dont like them .

I have 3 different P3 builds and like them all. Here are my builds. THough I am still playing with them and seeing what I like best.

Pentium 1.
32 megs ram
233 mmx
voodoo 3 pci
windows 98.
My go to system

Pentium 2
256 megs ram
350 mmx
voodoo 2 sli
windows 98

Pentium 3
450 mhz
1 gig ram
radeon 9250

Pentium 3
733 Mhz
1 gig ram
radeon 9250

Pentium 3
Dual cpu 933 Mhz
1 gig ram
Radeon 9250

I am thinking of putting my voodoo 3 agp card into one of the pentium 3s, but the radeon does very well in them. I have a bunch of other cards Im going to try in them as well.

Thanks for sharing your builds with me. I will check the price and the availability of the parts you have mentioned.

All of them sound interesting. The radeon 9250 is one of the radeon 9000 series right? I hever had one of these cards but I think I have read that the readeon 9000s have a very good reputation.

It is really cool that you have tons of different cards. You even have a V2 sli system.

Getting V2 Sli system myself is somehow tempting but with the current price range of V2 it is not the best way. A single V2 should be also enough for the games I am interested in and if I really want more power than a single v2 a v3000 should be a good alternative compared to a V2 Sli System?

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 18:36:

Thanks for sharing your builds with me. I will check the price and the availability of the parts you have mentioned. […]
Show full quote

Law212 wrote on 2023-03-24, 15:37:

I would suggest a P 3 over an athlon. I have a couple athlons and I dont like them . […]
Show full quote

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 07:29:

Yes it really interesting but also bit intimidating to step into the world of building a retro gaming rig. But I find it mo […]
Show full quote

Yes it really interesting but also bit intimidating to step into the world of building a retro gaming rig. But I find it more thrilling than intimidating and I am up to the task.

I have done some further research meanwhile and I think I have 2 options to go.

I will get either a V3 . 3000 AGP system with either one of the pentium 3 or athlon gpu. I need to narrow down the MHZ numbers.

What do you guys think about the cpu choice? is one of of them more preferable over the other?

Or I will go with option B

which would be a double card system witha vodoo 2 and a more later peroid more powerful gpu as second card.

I need to do some more research to find out with more powerful gpu would a good partner for the V2.

I would suggest a P 3 over an athlon. I have a couple athlons and I dont like them .

I have 3 different P3 builds and like them all. Here are my builds. THough I am still playing with them and seeing what I like best.

Pentium 1.
32 megs ram
233 mmx
voodoo 3 pci
windows 98.
My go to system

Pentium 2
256 megs ram
350 mmx
voodoo 2 sli
windows 98

Pentium 3
450 mhz
1 gig ram
radeon 9250

Pentium 3
733 Mhz
1 gig ram
radeon 9250

Pentium 3
Dual cpu 933 Mhz
1 gig ram
Radeon 9250

I am thinking of putting my voodoo 3 agp card into one of the pentium 3s, but the radeon does very well in them. I have a bunch of other cards Im going to try in them as well.

Thanks for sharing your builds with me. I will check the price and the availability of the parts you have mentioned.

All of them sound interesting. The radeon 9250 is one of the radeon 9000 series right? I hever had one of these cards but I think I have read that the readeon 9000s have a very good reputation.

It is really cool that you have tons of different cards. You even have a V2 sli system.

Getting V2 Sli system myself is somehow tempting but with the current price range of V2 it is not the best way. A single V2 should be also enough for the games I am interested in and if I really want more power than a single v2 a v3000 should be a good alternative compared to a V2 Sli System?

A single v 2 would be more than enough. I just got lucky with my voodoo cards. The voodoo 3, 2000 pci card I have was the original ibought back in the day when it was new. The secod voodoo 3 2000 card was found in an thrift store in a 5 dollar computer. The first voodoo 2 i got was found in a 10 dollar thrift store computer and the other voodoo 2 was sold very cheap to me by a guy on the marketplace locally. i think it was about 50 bucks.

Law212 wrote on 2023-03-29, 20:07:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 18:36:

Thanks for sharing your builds with me. I will check the price and the availability of the parts you have mentioned. […]
Show full quote

Law212 wrote on 2023-03-24, 15:37:

I would suggest a P 3 over an athlon. I have a couple athlons and I dont like them . […]
Show full quote

I would suggest a P 3 over an athlon. I have a couple athlons and I dont like them .

I have 3 different P3 builds and like them all. Here are my builds. THough I am still playing with them and seeing what I like best.

Pentium 1.
32 megs ram
233 mmx
voodoo 3 pci
windows 98.
My go to system

Pentium 2
256 megs ram
350 mmx
voodoo 2 sli
windows 98

Pentium 3
450 mhz
1 gig ram
radeon 9250

Pentium 3
733 Mhz
1 gig ram
radeon 9250

Pentium 3
Dual cpu 933 Mhz
1 gig ram
Radeon 9250

I am thinking of putting my voodoo 3 agp card into one of the pentium 3s, but the radeon does very well in them. I have a bunch of other cards Im going to try in them as well.

Thanks for sharing your builds with me. I will check the price and the availability of the parts you have mentioned.

All of them sound interesting. The radeon 9250 is one of the radeon 9000 series right? I hever had one of these cards but I think I have read that the readeon 9000s have a very good reputation.

It is really cool that you have tons of different cards. You even have a V2 sli system.

Getting V2 Sli system myself is somehow tempting but with the current price range of V2 it is not the best way. A single V2 should be also enough for the games I am interested in and if I really want more power than a single v2 a v3000 should be a good alternative compared to a V2 Sli System?

A single v 2 would be more than enough. I just got lucky with my voodoo cards. The voodoo 3, 2000 pci card I have was the original ibought back in the day when it was new. The secod voodoo 3 2000 card was found in an thrift store in a 5 dollar computer. The first voodoo 2 i got was found in a 10 dollar thrift store computer and the other voodoo 2 was sold very cheap to me by a guy on the marketplace locally. i think it was about 50 bucks.

Cool thing that you were lucky with the vodoo cards. They are really expensive these days. So having a decent set of the 3dfx cards is out of my price range.

But for me needs single V2 would be more than enough in case I get the V2 system. My research showed me that most of the games I am into would run really well on a single V2 System. So no complains there.

I would be more than happy with having such a system.

@all Which sound card would you recommend for a decent vodoo 2 system? According to my research a soundblaster 5.1 or one of the audigy should be a great choice?

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-30, 07:17:

@all Which sound card would you recommend for a decent vodoo 2 system? According to my research a soundblaster 5.1 or one of the audigy should be a great choice?

If you actually intend to hook up the sound card to a 5.1 speaker system, then go with an Audigy. Their drivers are more suited for surround sound gaming.

Creative's CMSS, which fake-expands stereo only games to 5.1, can be completely turned off with Audigy drivers. On the other hand, you can't easily do that with SBLive drivers, so you need to manually change your speaker configuration each time you're switching between stereo (e.g. DOS stuff) and 5.1 games.

I'd also agree with your research.
For me the benefit of Live! is it's cheap and common. Drawback is you have to find the the correct combination of driver and card which isn't always easy
Audigy's cost a bit more but drivers are simplified. Audigy 2 ZS is a bit messy with it defaulting to WDM luckily someone wrote a easy to follow guide how to do a nice clean install, Can't remember who it was though can you Joseph_Joestar? (It was him)

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-30, 07:17:

Cool thing that you were lucky with the vodoo cards. They are really expensive these days. So having a decent set of the 3d […]
Show full quote

Law212 wrote on 2023-03-29, 20:07:

predator_085 wrote on 2023-03-24, 18:36:

Thanks for sharing your builds with me. I will check the price and the availability of the parts you have mentioned. […]
Show full quote

Thanks for sharing your builds with me. I will check the price and the availability of the parts you have mentioned.

All of them sound interesting. The radeon 9250 is one of the radeon 9000 series right? I hever had one of these cards but I think I have read that the readeon 9000s have a very good reputation.

It is really cool that you have tons of different cards. You even have a V2 sli system.

Getting V2 Sli system myself is somehow tempting but with the current price range of V2 it is not the best way. A single V2 should be also enough for the games I am interested in and if I really want more power than a single v2 a v3000 should be a good alternative compared to a V2 Sli System?

A single v 2 would be more than enough. I just got lucky with my voodoo cards. The voodoo 3, 2000 pci card I have was the original ibought back in the day when it was new. The secod voodoo 3 2000 card was found in an thrift store in a 5 dollar computer. The first voodoo 2 i got was found in a 10 dollar thrift store computer and the other voodoo 2 was sold very cheap to me by a guy on the marketplace locally. i think it was about 50 bucks.

Cool thing that you were lucky with the vodoo cards. They are really expensive these days. So having a decent set of the 3dfx cards is out of my price range.

But for me needs single V2 would be more than enough in case I get the V2 system. My research showed me that most of the games I am into would run really well on a single V2 System. So no complains there.

I would be more than happy with having such a system.

@all Which sound card would you recommend for a decent vodoo 2 system? According to my research a soundblaster 5.1 or one of the audigy should be a great choice?

I go with sound blaster cards. I prefer Live 5.1 but live cards are my go to. Though you need the right driver as having the wrong driver can cause crashes

red_avatar wrote on 2023-03-24, 11:09:

It's possible that the CPUs were fine each time but at the time I didn't have any spare parts so it might have been the motherbo […]
Show full quote

bloodem wrote on 2023-03-24, 10:04:

Having worked in this business between 2005 and 2014, I can tell you that, in general, damaged CPUs was an extremely rare event […]
Show full quote

Having worked in this business between 2005 and 2014, I can tell you that, in general, damaged CPUs was an extremely rare event and probably still is (not just with Intel, but also with AMD). I think I've only seen ~ 5 dead CPUs in all of those years (a few were AMD and a few were Intel).

Having said that, I do agree that an AMD K6 platform is most certainly not for everyone (unless you knowingly go with it for very specific reasons). The CPUs are fine, the motherboards/chipsets are the main concern.
I for one love this platform, partly because my second PC came with an AMD K6-2 and I have very fond memories with it, and partly because debugging/fixing its weird quirks is part of the fun. And it can be very satisfying: if you do everything right, it can be a very good and stable platform (and a solid time machine PC, as well).

The Athlon XP/KT600 combo, on the other hand, is as solid as it gets and no tinkering/debugging is required. Everything just works (just like with most Pentium 3 / 440BX platforms).

It's possible that the CPUs were fine each time but at the time I didn't have any spare parts so it might have been the motherboard as well. Since you agree the motherboards were iffy, it's a good idea to leave it alone unless you really want a 90's AMD system for some reason.

For the early to mid 2000's: since most people switched to AMD until the Core2Duo arrived and since the cap plague was raging at the time (not to mention weird incompatibility issues all round) it's the same story here: systems dying but since mobo & CPU go together, they get replaced together as well. One CPU was definitely fried and this was the AMD Athlon Thunderbird. For some ridiculous reason it came with a tiny fan that was completely inadequate to cool the CPU which would quickly go up to 90°C. It died because the small fan started to wear down and without thermal shutdown existing in the BIOS, it was finished. In this case I DID have a spare CPU (or rather I could swap them between systems) since this was when I finally started to build systems on my own and suddenly my entire family wanted PCs built by me.

None of those dozens of AMD systems I built survived more than 3-4 years - they all started dying after a few years and I started to swap them over to Core2Duo and later i5 CPUs and I never had to replace any of those except because they were ageing. Also: oddly enough I never ran into RAM issues post-2007. Before 2007 I often had bad sticks with the AMD systems. Could this be due to the bad caps? I dunno.

If you have had dozens of PC's die of CPU failure then there is more to the story. Either they were assembled improperly or they were used improperly.
I'm just simply not buying it, no offense. I've been working in IT for going on 20 years. I've built I don't know how many machines and serviced literally thousands.
CPU's don't simply die for no reason, Intel, or AMD or any other brand.

I'd recommend rigging up a cooling solution if you get a voodoo2 - we all know most didnt come with any heatsinks or fans and will run, but I prefer to err on the safe side to keep this vintage gear going strong, as they do get hot 😀

Re: AMD k6-2 - there were builds of various games that enabled 3dnow extensions and would give a decent FPS boost. However they can be troublesome to get working at times and add another layer of complexity on top of getting the optimal mix of 3dfx drivers and sometimes minigl versions.

drosse1meyer wrote on 2023-03-30, 14:52:

I'd recommend rigging up a cooling solution if you get a voodoo2 - we all know most didnt come with any heatsinks or fans and will run, but I prefer to err on the safe side to keep this vintage gearing going strong, as they do get hot 😀

Re: AMD k6-2 - there were builds of various games that enabled 3dnow extensions and would give a decent FPS boost. However they can be troublesome to get working at times and add another layer of complexity on top of getting the optimal mix of 3dfx drivers and sometimes minigl versions.

Thanks for the warning. I have already read that the Vodoo cards can run rather hot. It was especially adviced for the V3 to get decent cooling solution. But is not surprisinging that such solution is also needed for the V2.

@All thanks for the advice about the sound cards.

Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-03-30, 14:08:

If you have had dozens of PC's die of CPU failure then there is more to the story. Either they were assembled improperly or they were used improperly.
I'm just simply not buying it, no offense. I've been working in IT for going on 20 years. I've built I don't know how many machines and serviced literally thousands.
CPU's don't simply die for no reason, Intel, or AMD or any other brand.

I have more experience than you then 😉 but no, it was not improper assembly - and only in one case was it improper use (the fan got caked with nicotine and the heatsink was basically a nicotine dust pillow so the CPU got fried).

But yeah, you didn't even mention the most obvious possible cause: bad PSUs. I've suspected PSUs were a possible cause because they used to die WAY more often back then and it wasn't like I bought cheap unknown brands. It was mostly Antec and other well known brands. The capacitor plague would have affected the PSUs as well and it would explain the dead RAM sticks which was quite common in the early to mid 2000s since RAM could get fried as well by unstable voltages.

Still, the fact that AMD systems died more easily felt to me as if they were more sensitive - it's also a feeling many others who built systems back then seemed to share with me at the time. Thing is, until the Core2Duo, Intel had no decent alternative - the Pentium IV was way slower AND more expensive so it made no sense, especially if you were building PCs for people on a budget.

red_avatar wrote on 2023-03-31, 22:38:

I have more experience than you then ;) but no, it was not improper assembly - and only in one case was it improper use (the fan […]
Show full quote

Jasin Natael wrote on 2023-03-30, 14:08:

If you have had dozens of PC's die of CPU failure then there is more to the story. Either they were assembled improperly or they were used improperly.
I'm just simply not buying it, no offense. I've been working in IT for going on 20 years. I've built I don't know how many machines and serviced literally thousands.
CPU's don't simply die for no reason, Intel, or AMD or any other brand.

I have more experience than you then 😉 but no, it was not improper assembly - and only in one case was it improper use (the fan got caked with nicotine and the heatsink was basically a nicotine dust pillow so the CPU got fried).

But yeah, you didn't even mention the most obvious possible cause: bad PSUs. I've suspected PSUs were a possible cause because they used to die WAY more often back then and it wasn't like I bought cheap unknown brands. It was mostly Antec and other well known brands. The capacitor plague would have affected the PSUs as well and it would explain the dead RAM sticks which was quite common in the early to mid 2000s since RAM could get fried as well by unstable voltages.

Still, the fact that AMD systems died more easily felt to me as if they were more sensitive - it's also a feeling many others who built systems back then seemed to share with me at the time. Thing is, until the Core2Duo, Intel had no decent alternative - the Pentium IV was way slower AND more expensive so it made no sense, especially if you were building PCs for people on a budget.

Well, let me preface by saying I should've worded my comment a bit better, maybe more diplomatically is the word.
I must have been having a bad day, so I apologize if I came off a bit harsh.

With that said I don't think it's fair to blame AMD for a faulty or subpar PSU/motherboard/cooler (whatever the case may or may not be).
If the CPU is made to spec, installed and operated within the manufacturer recommendations then it can't be blamed for another manufacturer's product causing it to fail prematurely.
If I am understanding what you are saying correctly.

Long story short, arguments on performance are subjective, so leaving that aside I just don't think AMD did at that time, at the present or any time previous make an inferior functioning chip.
To blame a chip failure because the cooler master fan was cheap or the power supply used had ripple isn't at all the point.
You quality components to compliment your build and operate as designed and any AMD chip will last just as long as the Intel counterpart.

Now architectures being dissimilar is a real thing, so one chip might run cooler or have a lower TDP, or use and inferior TIM for example.
As a matter of fact this has always been a sticking point with me, Intel often doesn't solder their die to the IHS.
This makes delidding simple but absolutely can cause worse thermal transfer and over time can cause the chips to longer be cooled properly by any cooler.
Contrast this with AMDs decision to release the Athlon and Athlon 462pin chips with no IHS.
This was also a bad idea as it made cooling great and easy to get nice thermal transfer but it also made it incredibly easy to crack a die as well.
Neither company are without their cost cutting foibles. But that's another argument altogether.

Sorry for the long winded (late) reply.

just wanted to drop in and say, the prices quoted in this thread made me double check my dates. i though this was a necro thread. bro, no one is touching a voodoo 2 in the states for less then $180.

I got my P2 system running in SLI finally. Though my cards are mismatched and one is a 12 meg and the other is an 8 meg card. Not ideal at all, so I hope to get another 12 meg card at some point.

pico1180 wrote on 2023-04-07, 03:53:

just wanted to drop in and say, the prices quoted in this thread made me double check my dates. i though this was a necro thread. bro, no one is touching a voodoo 2 in the states for less then $180.

Vodoo cards are expensive here in Europe as well but if you are lucky you can find one at cheaper price. (with cheaper I mean only 100) like this one.

https://www.ebay.at/itm/325629525989?hash=ite … ABk9SR7j8w6P4YQ

I am still on the fence on that. I have not written off getting a vodoo 2 system completley but I am also rather intersted in getting a later time machine like pc with a late pentium 4 and gf 4200 ti.

ps: Just fo the record. Are creative labs vodoo cards a solid pick vor v2 system or are other vendors better?