VOGONS


First post, by Minutemanqvs

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Hello,

Yesterday I wanted to boot my Slot A system which has a Shuttle AI61 mainboard, manual is available at https://download.shuttle.eu/Archive_2004/Manuals/en/ai61/ as zip files, it's version "v12" if needed. It did boot just fine, I could go in the BIOS and set some...settings as it didn't have a battery inserted and thus lost all configuration. Then I rebooted, it passed the "Updating ESCD" and just started to boot Windows as far as I can tell before freezing.

Now it does that on boot:
https://youtube.com/shorts/HFPsBwNvT1c

I tried to:
- Use a PCI graphics card
- Change memory modules, PC100 and PC133
- Change the CPU, Athlon 750 and Athlon 500
- Remove the battery to clear CMOS
- Set the CPU voltage manually instead of the "auto" setting
- Re-seating the BIOS chip

Also:
- Without RAM the beeping sound changes
- Without CPU nothing happens

None of the capacitors seems bulged and there are not that many jumpers on this mainboard. Any clue would be welcome...

Searching a Nexgen Nx586 with FPU, PM me if you have one. I have some Athlon MP systems and cookies.

Reply 1 of 25, by Nexxen

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Steps racap:

1) turned on #1
2) entered BIOS
3) changed some settings
4) saved and rebooted
5) Windows loaded to a certain point and froze
6) turned off #1

7) turned on #2
8 ) no POST
9) beeps
10) turned off #

11) turn on #3
12) loops to no POST

Is this correct?

Questions:

A) Can you program another BIOS chip?
B) Can you power it on without the fans connected to motherboard
c) Measures of the fan headers (I had a gigabyte board going crazy because of a dead fan like in your video) + recently I had a PIII board with a dead chips controlling voltages and fan.

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 2 of 25, by Minutemanqvs

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Yes this sequence is correct. And yes a friend has a programmer…I can try that indeed.
I also tried to power it on without the CPU fans connected, same result. But these fans are new, first time I used them…the old ones were dead.

Searching a Nexgen Nx586 with FPU, PM me if you have one. I have some Athlon MP systems and cookies.

Reply 3 of 25, by Nexxen

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Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-04-04, 17:33:

Yes this sequence is correct. And yes a friend has a programmer…I can try that indeed.
I also tried to power it on without the CPU fans connected, same result. But these fans are new, first time I used them…the old ones were dead.

I presume you have +12V on headers?
Can you trace back "sense pin" to the I/O chips it connects to? Sense is the one that isn't +12 nor Gnd

What if only one fan is connected to Cpu header?

Edit: try tilting the cpu, checked solder joints on the back?

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 4 of 25, by Nexxen

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Also the chip close to floppy connector, should be the one responsible for hardware monitoring if the manual is right.
Look it up and check if it is within specs.

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 5 of 25, by Minutemanqvs

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I will have a detailed look at all of this on saturday, meanwhile I tried to connect just 1 fan header and it’s still the same. Also tried to connect a fan from a « period correct » Pentium II.

Btw, the new fans are Noiseblocker XS1, I can’t see anything of concern in the datasheet: https://www.blacknoise.com/datas/downloads/da … 22012_de_en.pdf

Searching a Nexgen Nx586 with FPU, PM me if you have one. I have some Athlon MP systems and cookies.

Reply 6 of 25, by Nexxen

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Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-04-04, 18:35:

I will have a detailed look at all of this on saturday, meanwhile I tried to connect just 1 fan header and it’s still the same. Also tried to connect a fan from a « period correct » Pentium II.

Btw, the new fans are Noiseblocker XS1, I can’t see anything of concern in the datasheet: https://www.blacknoise.com/datas/downloads/da … 22012_de_en.pdf

It was just to rule it out. In fact I had problems with details being a "short" and not a full video on YT.
Maybe just post a normal video instead, old people have sight issue 🤣

I believe it'll be solved with the usual "oh, it was this... Uncanny!".

Edit: I believe the BIOS rom went is dead or has corruption.

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 7 of 25, by bogdanpaulb

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Do i see AMD chipset ? 😁. I presume you tested the motherboard with a 'strong 3.3v/5v rails' PSU ( If you have a new/modern psu, try with a older type ) , the fact that is complaining about no 'video card' plus the 'screams' after that makes me wonder how strong are those rails.

Reply 8 of 25, by matze79

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Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-04-04, 15:56:

None of the capacitors seems bulged and there are not that many jumpers on this mainboard. Any clue would be welcome...

Capacitors cannot be declared ok just by optical inspection because not all defects are visible to the naked eye.
While an optical inspection can reveal certain types of defects, such as cracks, bulges, or leaks, there are other issues that may not be immediately apparent.
For example, the capacitance value may have drifted or the ESR (Equivalent Series Resistance) may have increased, which cannot be detected by simply looking at the capacitor's external appearance.
Additionally, some defects may be internal, meaning they are not visible from the outside.
Therefore, it is important to use other testing methods, such as capacitance meters or ESR meters, to ensure that capacitors are functioning properly.
Electrical testing is necessary to accurately assess the condition of a capacitor.

It's possible that your issue may still be a power supply issue or a capacitor issue.

The error pattern could indicate such issues.

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Reply 9 of 25, by PcBytes

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bogdanpaulb wrote on 2023-04-04, 21:03:

Do i see AMD chipset ? 😁. I presume you tested the motherboard with a 'strong 3.3v/5v rails' PSU ( If you have a new/modern psu, try with a older type ) , the fact that is complaining about no 'video card' plus the 'screams' after that makes me wonder how strong are those rails.

That's standard Award BIOS complaining for no video then BIOS ROM checksum error. I've seen this more than once and it's usually the BIOS chip that's at fault.

To OP - try preparing a new BIOS chip (through your preferred method of flashing) with the latest BIOS and test. More than likely the original chip is on its way out.

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 10 of 25, by bogdanpaulb

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Thou i agree to some extent, this would be the fist time i 'hear' the BIOS ROM checksum error without image being displayed (not seen so many cases and i'm not saying that's impossible) but the fact that is complaining about video first is strange. I just what to make sure all the 'basics' are taken in to consideration before bios flashing. But if he wants to jump straight to bios flashing it's his choice.

Reply 11 of 25, by Capcholo

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I'd advise against shorting the power on with a screwdriver, it's much safer end easier to use a button with wire leads.
A screwdriver could carry ESD, you could drop it accidentally or even short something else because you were distracted.
A button is much safer.

(endorsed by the "Don't fry your expensive board when you could just use a leftover button lying around" committee)

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Reply 12 of 25, by Minutemanqvs

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The PSU should support 28A on the 3.3V rail and 30A on the 5V rail, so enough considering nothing runs on this setup except a Rage 128 and a 40W Athlon CPU. It's https://static.digitecgalaxus.ch/Files/5/4/9/ … _Datenblatt.pdf

But I will try with another PSU just to rule it out.
I also checked the soldering on the Slot A conenctor, everything seems fine and tilting the CPU from one side to the other doesn't change the issue.

I asked my friend if his chip programmer supports 32-pin DIP chips and unfortunately no...so I guess it's time to invest in a programmer. The BIOS chips is this one, does someone have a spare by any chance? Where would you go to buy a new one?

Edit: there seems to be one on https://www.ebay.com/itm/184347075181 I'll take that I guess.

IMG-0336.jpg

Searching a Nexgen Nx586 with FPU, PM me if you have one. I have some Athlon MP systems and cookies.

Reply 13 of 25, by Nexxen

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Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-04-05, 07:00:
The PSU should support 28A on the 3.3V rail and 30A on the 5V rail, so enough considering nothing runs on this setup except a Ra […]
Show full quote

The PSU should support 28A on the 3.3V rail and 30A on the 5V rail, so enough considering nothing runs on this setup except a Rage 128 and a 40W Athlon CPU. It's https://static.digitecgalaxus.ch/Files/5/4/9/ … _Datenblatt.pdf

But I will try with another PSU just to rule it out.
I also checked the soldering on the Slot A conenctor, everything seems fine and tilting the CPU from one side to the other doesn't change the issue.

I asked my friend if his chip programmer supports 32-pin DIP chips and unfortunately no...so I guess it's time to invest in a programmer. The BIOS chips is this one, does someone have a spare by any chance? Where would you go to buy a new one?

Edit: there seems to be one on https://www.ebay.com/itm/184347075181 I'll take that I guess.

IMG-0336.jpg

Don't you have another motherboard to try a hot flash?

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 14 of 25, by PcBytes

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bogdanpaulb wrote on 2023-04-05, 01:19:

Thou i agree to some extent, this would be the fist time i 'hear' the BIOS ROM checksum error without image being displayed (not seen so many cases and i'm not saying that's impossible) but the fact that is complaining about video first is strange. I just what to make sure all the 'basics' are taken in to consideration before bios flashing. But if he wants to jump straight to bios flashing it's his choice.

It complains because as far as I know, the fallback for the BIOS ROM is usually ISA - since it detects no display adapter on the ISA bus (the only thing it can detect in that state), it complains of no VGA.

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB

Reply 15 of 25, by bogdanpaulb

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Nexxen wrote on 2023-04-05, 09:02:
Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-04-05, 07:00:
The PSU should support 28A on the 3.3V rail and 30A on the 5V rail, so enough considering nothing runs on this setup except a Ra […]
Show full quote

The PSU should support 28A on the 3.3V rail and 30A on the 5V rail, so enough considering nothing runs on this setup except a Rage 128 and a 40W Athlon CPU. It's https://static.digitecgalaxus.ch/Files/5/4/9/ … _Datenblatt.pdf

But I will try with another PSU just to rule it out.
I also checked the soldering on the Slot A conenctor, everything seems fine and tilting the CPU from one side to the other doesn't change the issue.

I asked my friend if his chip programmer supports 32-pin DIP chips and unfortunately no...so I guess it's time to invest in a programmer. The BIOS chips is this one, does someone have a spare by any chance? Where would you go to buy a new one?

Edit: there seems to be one on https://www.ebay.com/itm/184347075181 I'll take that I guess.

IMG-0336.jpg

Don't you have another motherboard to try a hot flash?

This should be cheaper then buying a programmer and is not that hard, there are plenty of boards that support that chip. All you need is a steady hand ( if you can power with a screwdriver, you got it 😀 ) and a plastic tool ( something that resembles a flat screwdriver tip).

Reply 16 of 25, by Minutemanqvs

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Yep I already did that in the past but honestly I was looking to buy a programmer since a long time so it's a good opportunity to finally invest in such a too. And if the chip is half dead it won't rule it out completely as a possible cause. This weekend I'll test another PSU just to be sure, then wait on te chip/programmer to arrive. I guess the next update will be in a month or so 😉

Searching a Nexgen Nx586 with FPU, PM me if you have one. I have some Athlon MP systems and cookies.

Reply 17 of 25, by Minutemanqvs

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We are now 2 weeks later and I got my programmer today. So I took the latest BIOS available as a binary file (AI61S019), erased and re-programmed the existing BIOS chip and..

IMG-0358.jpg

I'm so glad it's only a half-dead chip. I'll replace it with a new one as soon as they arrive anyway just to be sure. Really thanks for all your tips and even thinking it could be a defective EEPROM.

Now I'll just have to upgrade to the latest BIOS (AI61S022) which is hidden in a pesky .exe file as a self-contained updater.

Searching a Nexgen Nx586 with FPU, PM me if you have one. I have some Athlon MP systems and cookies.

Reply 18 of 25, by Nexxen

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Minutemanqvs wrote on 2023-04-17, 15:18:
We are now 2 weeks later and I got my programmer today. So I took the latest BIOS available as a binary file (AI61S019), erased […]
Show full quote

We are now 2 weeks later and I got my programmer today. So I took the latest BIOS available as a binary file (AI61S019), erased and re-programmed the existing BIOS chip and..

IMG-0358.jpg

I'm so glad it's only a half-dead chip. I'll replace it with a new one as soon as they arrive anyway just to be sure. Really thanks for all your tips and even thinking it could be a defective EEPROM.

Now I'll just have to upgrade to the latest BIOS (AI61S022) which is hidden in a pesky .exe file as a self-contained updater.

YESSSSSSSSS!!
Ok, time to have some fun 😀

PC#1 Pentium 233 MMX - 98SE
PC#2 PIII-1Ghz - 98SE/W2K

Reply 19 of 25, by PcBytes

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Welp. guess I was right. Dying BIOS chip 😀

Had the same issue with my ole' ABIT BE6-II.
Ripped some chip from a old defunct and long gone K7S5A (a Winbond W49F002U), hotflashed it on a Epox EP-7KXA mobo I had around, and it sprung to life without issues.
Before doing the hotflash, I was experiencing more or less the same issues as your board, plus general instability in Windows w/ slotket (though I'd blame the instability partly on my slotkets being modified Celeron slotkets and the fact that I didn't use polymer caps at the time)

"Enter at your own peril, past the bolted door..."
Main PC: i5 3470, GB B75M-D3H, 16GB RAM, 2x1TB
98SE : P3 650, Soyo SY-6BA+IV, 384MB RAM, 80GB