VOGONS


First post, by claesbas

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i have been working on a 166mhz mmx computer. Its in a nice old 1995 era mid tower (one of the old ones with turbo btn and a digital number display). Been retro brighting the plastic and painted the metal very carefully. Will post images when done.

I took lots of images while disassembling it but I must have forgotten the Power Button cables as I cannot find these. Its one of these old power buttons (see images)

I got a black, white, blue and brown cable from the AT power supply (it was connected before I disassembled everything) - Which color goes where on the

1A, 2A, 4B and 5b connectors?

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Reply 1 of 17, by weedeewee

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grab your multimeter and check which wires attach to the power inlet on the psu.
It could be blue & brown. better measure to be sure, or open up the supply and visually determine which is which.

Then measure the switch. depending on the state of the switch on or off, one pin should conduct to another ,likely 1A to 2A and 4B to 5B.

The live wires, ie the wires coming from the power inlet on the psu should go to 1A & 4B, the other wires should go to 2A & 5B

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 3 of 17, by claesbas

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Woops, this setting blew the fuse in my garage. I hope nothing got damaged.

20230509_114617.jpg
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I should have really done the multimeter. But whenever I pick that up I get very confused what to do.

Reply 5 of 17, by kixs

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https://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp … =31105&seqNum=4

As long as the blue and brown wires are on the one set of tabs and the black and white leads are on the other, the switch and supply will work properly. If you incorrectly mix the leads, you will likely blow the circuit breaker for the wall socket because mixing them can create a direct short circuit.

03fig12.jpg

Requests are also possible... /msg kixs

Reply 6 of 17, by claesbas

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kixs wrote on 2023-05-09, 12:01:
https://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp … =31105&seqNum=4 […]
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https://www.informit.com/articles/article.asp … =31105&seqNum=4

As long as the blue and brown wires are on the one set of tabs and the black and white leads are on the other, the switch and supply will work properly. If you incorrectly mix the leads, you will likely blow the circuit breaker for the wall socket because mixing them can create a direct short circuit.

03fig12.jpg

This is correct. Thanks a lot!

Reply 7 of 17, by ontrca

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claesbas wrote on 2023-05-09, 09:51:

Woops, this setting blew the fuse in my garage. I hope nothing got damaged.

20230509_114617.jpg

I should have really done the multimeter. But whenever I pick that up I get very confused what to do.

You didn't listen to me owe well 🙁

Reply 8 of 17, by weedeewee

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claesbas wrote on 2023-05-09, 09:51:

Woops, this setting blew the fuse in my garage. I hope nothing got damaged.

20230509_114617.jpg

I should have really done the multimeter. But whenever I pick that up I get very confused what to do.

The switch got damaged.
You shorted the line & neutral when you turned on the switch.

Though since you already said you got it working now, it seems the damage wasn't devastating enough to actually brake the switch.

Personally I wouldn't consider it safe anymore, but If I lacked another switch would likely still keep using it.
Worst thing that could happen would be the switch overheating and starting a fire.

When I saw the photo I immediatly wondered why would he post such a photo where nothing is clear and just some colored wires stick out.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 9 of 17, by claesbas

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ontrca wrote on 2023-05-09, 14:14:
claesbas wrote on 2023-05-09, 09:51:

Woops, this setting blew the fuse in my garage. I hope nothing got damaged.

20230509_114617.jpg

I should have really done the multimeter. But whenever I pick that up I get very confused what to do.

You didn't listen to me owe well 🙁

Yes, I should have. All seems good - it was a direct short circuit so the fuse got it directly - I think and hope. Its a quite heavy switch here and probably built quite robust. These switches was used in quite a lot of appliances back then. I think I am good.

weedeewee wrote on 2023-05-09, 15:19:
The switch got damaged. You shorted the line & neutral when you turned on the switch. […]
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claesbas wrote on 2023-05-09, 09:51:

Woops, this setting blew the fuse in my garage. I hope nothing got damaged.

20230509_114617.jpg

I should have really done the multimeter. But whenever I pick that up I get very confused what to do.

The switch got damaged.
You shorted the line & neutral when you turned on the switch.

Though since you already said you got it working now, it seems the damage wasn't devastating enough to actually brake the switch.

Personally I wouldn't consider it safe anymore, but If I lacked another switch would likely still keep using it.
Worst thing that could happen would be the switch overheating and starting a fire.

When I saw the photo I immediatly wondered why would he post such a photo where nothing is clear and just some colored wires stick out.

Yeah, was a bit of a diffuse photo!

I think I am all good here though - the switch looks good and everything seems just fine now when correctly connected. The wires and the switch casing+metal there are quite heavy duty stuff. Its not like in modern PCs.

Reply 10 of 17, by Doornkaat

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weedeewee wrote on 2023-05-09, 15:19:
claesbas wrote on 2023-05-09, 09:51:

Woops, this setting blew the fuse in my garage. I hope nothing got damaged.

20230509_114617.jpg

I should have really done the multimeter. But whenever I pick that up I get very confused what to do.

The switch got damaged.
You shorted the line & neutral when you turned on the switch.

What about this would damage the switch, especially since the fuse went out?

Reply 12 of 17, by mkarcher

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jmarsh wrote on 2023-05-10, 02:48:
Doornkaat wrote on 2023-05-10, 02:07:

What about this would damage the switch, especially since the fuse went out?

Too many amps across the switch terminals, could melt/insta-weld them together.

Exactly. For Germany: General-purpose circuits with sockets typically use 16A breakers, type "B". For that breaker to switch off immediately, you need a current of at least 32A, more like 50A. This high current ran through the switch terminals (which were just powering on, so they might be bouncing and arcing) until the fuse went out. 50A is definitely outside of the specification of the switch, and a current that can be used for arc welding. We don't claim the switch is damaged (likely it isn't severely damaged, depending on how fast the fuse acted), but the possibility of damage does exist.

Reply 13 of 17, by Doornkaat

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jmarsh wrote on 2023-05-10, 02:48:

Too many amps across the switch terminals, could melt/insta-weld them together.

But it didn't, did it? OP claims the switch still works. It has only been overloaded very shortly. I do not think it is reasonable to assume it took any relevant damage during that time.

mkarcher wrote on 2023-05-10, 05:59:

For that breaker to switch off immediately, you need a current of at least 32A, more like 50A. This high current ran through the switch terminals (which were just powering on, so they might be bouncing and arcing) until the fuse went out. 50A is definitely outside of the specification of the switch

It is almost certainly outside of the specification of the switch for continuous load. There's a chance the switch is constructed to endure much higher inrush current over very short amounts of time. (Likely it has no rating for inrush current though.)

mkarcher wrote on 2023-05-10, 05:59:

We don't claim the switch is damaged (likely it isn't severely damaged, depending on how fast the fuse acted), but the possibility of damage does exist.

The actual phrase that I'm responding to was:

weedeewee wrote on 2023-05-09, 15:19:

The switch got damaged.

That's a pretty definitive statement and I don't agree with it.
Of course if the breaker hadn't reacted and there was a continuous 50A load over a prolonged amount of time the switch would eventually heat up and get damaged. But that's not what happened.
Switches get 'damaged' everytime they're used. That's regular wear, I think we both know about that and don't really care because it's insignificant to our application. This one very limited overcurrent event hasn't caused any relevant degradation within the switch either.

Reply 15 of 17, by Doornkaat

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jmarsh wrote on 2023-05-10, 09:26:

If a mains-carrying component could be damaged (has been operated outside specifications) you should assume it is. Especially for something as simple to replace as a switch, it's not worth the risk.

The point is from what happend it couldn't be damaged.
Would you also recommend replacing wall sockets, plugs and cables now because they're not rated for sustained loads >16A?
Come on, that's just ridiculous.

Reply 16 of 17, by weedeewee

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Doornkaat wrote on 2023-05-10, 10:04:
The point is from what happend it couldn't be damaged. Would you also recommend replacing wall sockets, plugs and cables now bec […]
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jmarsh wrote on 2023-05-10, 09:26:

If a mains-carrying component could be damaged (has been operated outside specifications) you should assume it is. Especially for something as simple to replace as a switch, it's not worth the risk.

The point is from what happend it couldn't be damaged.
Would you also recommend replacing wall sockets, plugs and cables now because they're not rated for sustained loads >16A?
Come on, that's just ridiculous.

For me there is no argument.
You're just hanging on to your opinion.
Damaged does not mean dead or non-functional.
Please stop this discussion about it in this thread.
If you want you can start a new thread about this subject, just stop this here.
Better yet, try it out for yourself, start with a new switch, hook it up wrong, trip the breaker, dismantle the switch (those switches can be taken apart and put back together again) and compare with a brand new switch that has been switched one time in a normal way.

Right to repair is fundamental. You own it, you're allowed to fix it.
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
Do not ask Why !
https://www.vogonswiki.com/index.php/Serial_port

Reply 17 of 17, by Doornkaat

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weedeewee wrote on 2023-05-10, 18:42:
For me there is no argument. You're just hanging on to your opinion. Damaged does not mean dead or non-functional. Please stop […]
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Doornkaat wrote on 2023-05-10, 10:04:
The point is from what happend it couldn't be damaged. Would you also recommend replacing wall sockets, plugs and cables now bec […]
Show full quote
jmarsh wrote on 2023-05-10, 09:26:

If a mains-carrying component could be damaged (has been operated outside specifications) you should assume it is. Especially for something as simple to replace as a switch, it's not worth the risk.

The point is from what happend it couldn't be damaged.
Would you also recommend replacing wall sockets, plugs and cables now because they're not rated for sustained loads >16A?
Come on, that's just ridiculous.

For me there is no argument.
You're just hanging on to your opinion.
Damaged does not mean dead or non-functional.
Please stop this discussion about it in this thread.
If you want you can start a new thread about this subject, just stop this here.
Better yet, try it out for yourself, start with a new switch, hook it up wrong, trip the breaker, dismantle the switch (those switches can be taken apart and put back together again) and compare with a brand new switch that has been switched one time in a normal way.

Look, incidentally not too long ago I have disassembled a 230V AC switch that had been directly connecting live and neutral causing the breaker to trip on a new device that had a manufacture defect. I opened the switch because I initially thought it was the culprit. There was no visible damage on the switch.

Also I don't understand why you want me to stop posting about my experience in this thread. Come on, you didn't even start this thread.🤷‍♂️