CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2023-09-18, 15:49:

retep_110 wrote on 2023-09-18, 07:11:

In the meantime my The Gigabyte 586HX arrived and I am going to resume building the dos rig and I will finalise the parts I a […]
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In the meantime my The Gigabyte 586HX arrived and I am going to resume building the dos rig and I will finalise the parts I am going to use.

CPU wise I will either get a pentium 166 mmx or the Pentium 233mx like recommended.

At the moment I am more inclined towards the 166mhz mhx due to the easier avaiability and the better price. But it would also be tempting to max out my system.

a Pentium 200mhz could also be a alternative.

Which cpu would you pick if the main goal would be to have the a very high powered Dos System? And which one would you pick for the best comapability?

Campability wise I think the 166 mmx would be the best choice because you can also run some speed senstives on it if I am not mistaken?

I will also keep my eyes open for a Voodoo 1 card and a decent partner card for it.

I am not sure about the ram yet. How much ram is the sweet spot for a great DOS system?

I have Tulip P166MMX system with 64MB, Orpheus II sound card, Voodoo 1 and 98lite and I think similar systems are pretty damn good for most 90s DOS gaming up till late DOS era, as well as many win95 era games, of course. I personally didn’t actually build it specifically DOS in mind, I have other systems doing that job, but sort of as a system that plays games that are typical for Pentium era. And I’m one of those people who tend to take these systems for what they are and if they perform well for the period they are from, I am completely fine for it. I don’t need or want some fast Athlon system to play games from the mid 90s ”optimally”, I use such system to play games from late 98 or early XP era. However, IMO p166MMX has enough oomph for pretty much everything for the period, unless you want to play action games without 3D acceleration in SVGA resolutions. But to do that, PII or P3 is required in any case and even the fastest P1 just doesn’t cut it.

I think you will be just fine if you get P166. You can always upgrade faster CPU later if you find an affordable one etc.

Thanks for the reply. If the 166mmx has enough power to play pretty much everything from that peroid the 166mmx sounds like the p cpu for me.
If I need more power I can always use my first rig.

A pentium 3 800 MHZ system.

But like

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-18, 13:38:

Between the Pentium 200 and 166MMX, I would pick the latter because it has a larger L1 cache (16KB vs 32KB) and more chance that the SetMul utility will work with the TR12 registers.

Regarding amount of RAM, 16-32MB are the sweet spot for a DOS-only system.

Any S3 PCI video card starting from the Trio64 are the ideal choice in overall DOS compatibility, make sure that the card manufacturer isn't a noname one to ensure a decent image quality.

the 200mhz version of the mmx might also be a viable option.

if I can find one at a good price.

The 200 mhz version seems to be much more expensive than the 200mhz version.

Also a big thanks for your card and ram recommendations @ gmbl256

My choice would be a fast VIA C3 like the 1200A Nemiah paired with a VIA VT82C694X or 694T chipset board with one ISA slot and official Nemiah support.

Socket3 wrote on 2023-09-22, 08:00:

My choice would be a fast VIA C3 like the 1200A Nemiah paired with a VIA VT82C694X or 694T chipset board with one ISA slot and official Nemiah support.

A better (and difficult but awesome) alternative would be pairing that VIA Nehemiah C3 CPU with a suitable motherboard based on a 440BX/ZX chipset that has a modded BIOS and where it is possible to change the FSB on the fly in DOS. 😉

retep_110 wrote on 2023-09-20, 07:25:

Thanks for the reply. If the 166mmx has enough power to play pretty much everything from that peroid the 166mmx sounds like the […]
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CharlieFoxtrot wrote on 2023-09-18, 15:49:

retep_110 wrote on 2023-09-18, 07:11:

In the meantime my The Gigabyte 586HX arrived and I am going to resume building the dos rig and I will finalise the parts I a […]
Show full quote

In the meantime my The Gigabyte 586HX arrived and I am going to resume building the dos rig and I will finalise the parts I am going to use.

CPU wise I will either get a pentium 166 mmx or the Pentium 233mx like recommended.

At the moment I am more inclined towards the 166mhz mhx due to the easier avaiability and the better price. But it would also be tempting to max out my system.

a Pentium 200mhz could also be a alternative.

Which cpu would you pick if the main goal would be to have the a very high powered Dos System? And which one would you pick for the best comapability?

Campability wise I think the 166 mmx would be the best choice because you can also run some speed senstives on it if I am not mistaken?

I will also keep my eyes open for a Voodoo 1 card and a decent partner card for it.

I am not sure about the ram yet. How much ram is the sweet spot for a great DOS system?

I have Tulip P166MMX system with 64MB, Orpheus II sound card, Voodoo 1 and 98lite and I think similar systems are pretty damn good for most 90s DOS gaming up till late DOS era, as well as many win95 era games, of course. I personally didn’t actually build it specifically DOS in mind, I have other systems doing that job, but sort of as a system that plays games that are typical for Pentium era. And I’m one of those people who tend to take these systems for what they are and if they perform well for the period they are from, I am completely fine for it. I don’t need or want some fast Athlon system to play games from the mid 90s ”optimally”, I use such system to play games from late 98 or early XP era. However, IMO p166MMX has enough oomph for pretty much everything for the period, unless you want to play action games without 3D acceleration in SVGA resolutions. But to do that, PII or P3 is required in any case and even the fastest P1 just doesn’t cut it.

I think you will be just fine if you get P166. You can always upgrade faster CPU later if you find an affordable one etc.

Thanks for the reply. If the 166mmx has enough power to play pretty much everything from that peroid the 166mmx sounds like the p cpu for me.
If I need more power I can always use my first rig.

A pentium 3 800 MHZ system.

But like

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-18, 13:38:

Between the Pentium 200 and 166MMX, I would pick the latter because it has a larger L1 cache (16KB vs 32KB) and more chance that the SetMul utility will work with the TR12 registers.

Regarding amount of RAM, 16-32MB are the sweet spot for a DOS-only system.

Any S3 PCI video card starting from the Trio64 are the ideal choice in overall DOS compatibility, make sure that the card manufacturer isn't a noname one to ensure a decent image quality.

the 200mhz version of the mmx might also be a viable option.

if I can find one at a good price.

The 200 mhz version seems to be much more expensive than the 200mhz version.

Also a big thanks for your card and ram recommendations @ gmbl256

The difference between 166MHz and 200MHz isn’t big in practice in any case. Sure, you might gain couple of frames on some titles, but for the Pentium era, 166MHz processors were pretty much on the top end. If you bump into a situation where P166MMX is a serious bottleneck, most likely it also applies to 200MHz and even 233MHz and you need a P2 in that case.

Sure, if you get 200MHz MMX cheply, why not. But the difference won’t be huge and something that you would probably notice with many titles at all.

Just on fleabay half an hour ago and it looked like 166/200 pricing had a lot of overlap, with choices at $20, while cheaper 233 were a little more.

Socket3 wrote on 2023-09-22, 08:00:

My choice would be a fast VIA C3 like the 1200A Nemiah paired with a VIA VT82C694X or 694T chipset board with one ISA slot and official Nemiah support.

Thanks for you recommendation. I have not considered getting a Via C3 Cpu

or the

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-22, 13:35:

Socket3 wrote on 2023-09-22, 08:00:

My choice would be a fast VIA C3 like the 1200A Nemiah paired with a VIA VT82C694X or 694T chipset board with one ISA slot and official Nemiah support.

A better (and difficult but awesome) alternative would be pairing that VIA Nehemiah C3 CPU with a suitable motherboard based on a 440BX/ZX chipset that has a modded BIOS and where it is possible to change the FSB on the fly in DOS. 😉

but I will look into these options asap.

@CharlieFoxtrot So far the 166mhz variants seem to be more available to me.

I prefer to get stuff within my own country or just within the EU. shipping from overseas is not the best option these days because you never know how the custom will react and if they want more money from me or not.

I also think that 166mhz cpu should be fast enough for my gamin needs.

For game that need a pentium 2 I can use my p3 800 mhz anyway. So I do not need the fastest version of the mmx cpus at all.

But I will also look into the VIA Cpus like recommended above.

I have also concated a local seller to purchase the 166mhz. I am not going to get reply before next week though because he is on vocation.

That 's good thing. I will use the remaining time to research about the VIA cpu.

In case I should get a cheap 200 mhx or even 233mhz cpu I will grab it of course. Being too picky is not the best approach for buying retro stuff.

retep_110 wrote on 2023-09-25, 06:44:

Thanks for you recommendation. I have not considered getting a Via C3 Cpu […]
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Socket3 wrote on 2023-09-22, 08:00:

My choice would be a fast VIA C3 like the 1200A Nemiah paired with a VIA VT82C694X or 694T chipset board with one ISA slot and official Nemiah support.

Thanks for you recommendation. I have not considered getting a Via C3 Cpu

or the

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-22, 13:35:

Socket3 wrote on 2023-09-22, 08:00:

My choice would be a fast VIA C3 like the 1200A Nemiah paired with a VIA VT82C694X or 694T chipset board with one ISA slot and official Nemiah support.

A better (and difficult but awesome) alternative would be pairing that VIA Nehemiah C3 CPU with a suitable motherboard based on a 440BX/ZX chipset that has a modded BIOS and where it is possible to change the FSB on the fly in DOS. 😉

but I will look into these options asap.

I don't mention that option much due to the difficulties achieving this. It requires the following:

• A motherboard with a BIOS that fully accepts VIA C3 CPUs. Socket3's option is the safest way to go regarding this, but you will have to deal with potential quirks of the VIA chipset.
• To get the intended performance on a motherboard based on 440BX/ZX with a 133 MHz FSB CPU, it involves overclocking the chipset and have to deal with the problem of AGP @ 89 MHz.
• FSB switching in DOS requires a PLL clock generator that is supported RayerR's SMB (for Intel chipsets) or VIAFSB (for VIA chipsets). SoftMenu-like BIOS settings has similar and less versatile capabilities.
• Slotket adapter on Slot 1 motherboards, preferably one that at least support Coppermine CPUs for better compatibility.

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-25, 14:33:

I don't mention that option much due to the difficulties achieving this. It requires the following: […]
Show full quote

retep_110 wrote on 2023-09-25, 06:44:

Thanks for you recommendation. I have not considered getting a Via C3 Cpu […]
Show full quote

Socket3 wrote on 2023-09-22, 08:00:

My choice would be a fast VIA C3 like the 1200A Nemiah paired with a VIA VT82C694X or 694T chipset board with one ISA slot and official Nemiah support.

Thanks for you recommendation. I have not considered getting a Via C3 Cpu

or the

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-22, 13:35:

A better (and difficult but awesome) alternative would be pairing that VIA Nehemiah C3 CPU with a suitable motherboard based on a 440BX/ZX chipset that has a modded BIOS and where it is possible to change the FSB on the fly in DOS. 😉

but I will look into these options asap.

I don't mention that option much due to the difficulties achieving this. It requires the following:

• A motherboard with a BIOS that fully accepts VIA C3 CPUs. Socket3's option is the safest way to go regarding this, but you will have to deal with potential quirks of the VIA chipset.
• To get the intended performance on a motherboard based on 440BX/ZX with a 133 MHz FSB CPU, it involves overclocking the chipset and have to deal with the problem of AGP @ 89 MHz.
• FSB switching in DOS requires a PLL clock generator that is supported RayerR's SMB (for Intel chipsets) or VIAFSB (for VIA chipsets). SoftMenu-like BIOS settings has similar and less versatile capabilities.
• Slotket adapter on Slot 1 motherboards, preferably one that at least support Coppermine CPUs for better compatibility.

The VT82C694X and 694T have no quirks I am aware of. The problem is some VIA 694 boards are good (stable, great performance) while some are mediocre with a select few being outright bad. On the other hand they're pretty cheap compared to 440bx motherboards. The 693 chipsets (apolo pro 133) are even more of a crapshoot. Most boards are of poor quality, but there are some few VT82C693A boards out there.

Safe bets for good via boards are the Abit VH6-II, VH6T, Asus CUB4X, asus CUV4X-M, Aopen AX34 II, Iwill VX133u and Epox EP-3VSA2 to name a few. These I have tested myself and are Nemiah compatible.

Socket3 wrote on 2023-09-25, 19:23:

Gmlb256 wrote on 2023-09-25, 14:33:

I don't mention that option much due to the difficulties achieving this. It requires the following: […]
Show full quote

retep_110 wrote on 2023-09-25, 06:44:

Thanks for you recommendation. I have not considered getting a Via C3 Cpu

or the

but I will look into these options asap.

I don't mention that option much due to the difficulties achieving this. It requires the following:

• A motherboard with a BIOS that fully accepts VIA C3 CPUs. Socket3's option is the safest way to go regarding this, but you will have to deal with potential quirks of the VIA chipset.
• To get the intended performance on a motherboard based on 440BX/ZX with a 133 MHz FSB CPU, it involves overclocking the chipset and have to deal with the problem of AGP @ 89 MHz.
• FSB switching in DOS requires a PLL clock generator that is supported RayerR's SMB (for Intel chipsets) or VIAFSB (for VIA chipsets). SoftMenu-like BIOS settings has similar and less versatile capabilities.
• Slotket adapter on Slot 1 motherboards, preferably one that at least support Coppermine CPUs for better compatibility.

The VT82C694X and 694T have no quirks I am aware of. The problem is some VIA 694 boards are good (stable, great performance) while some are mediocre with a select few being outright bad. On the other hand they're pretty cheap compared to 440bx motherboards. The 693 chipsets (apolo pro 133) are even more of a crapshoot. Most boards are of poor quality, but there are some few VT82C693A boards out there.

Safe bets for good via boards are the Abit VH6-II, VH6T, Asus CUB4X, asus CUV4X-M, Aopen AX34 II, Iwill VX133u and Epox EP-3VSA2 to name a few. These I have tested myself and are Nemiah compatible.

Thanks a lot for the very detailed answer and the mainboard recommendations. I will look into them asap to find a neat via board.

The 1200A Nemiah availability itself istself and the price is good enough to seriously consider it.

I think if i can find one of above mentioned mainboards without breaking the bank getting a Nemiah system is the way to go.