appiah4 wrote on 2023-08-01, 09:20:

Maryoo wrote on 2023-08-01, 09:10:

Personally, I'm more interested in being able to run old software on the newest computer. If Windows 10/11 was 100% compatible with Windows9x/DOS, I would give up collecting this 'e-waste' because building working computers from them is often very frustrating.

Just install 86box?

Too poor performance.

Maryoo wrote on 2023-08-01, 09:24:

appiah4 wrote on 2023-08-01, 09:20:

Maryoo wrote on 2023-08-01, 09:10:

Personally, I'm more interested in being able to run old software on the newest computer. If Windows 10/11 was 100% compatible with Windows9x/DOS, I would give up collecting this 'e-waste' because building working computers from them is often very frustrating.

Just install 86box?

Too poor performance.

I can get a PII-266 out of it with my R5 5600X..

appiah4 wrote on 2023-08-01, 09:20:

Maryoo wrote on 2023-08-01, 09:10:

Personally, I'm more interested in being able to run old software on the newest computer. If Windows 10/11 was 100% compatible with Windows9x/DOS, I would give up collecting this 'e-waste' because building working computers from them is often very frustrating.

Just install 86box?

I had a whole array of solutions to running old games on a new computer. DOSBOX, PCem, 86Box, VirtualBox, fan patches, dgVoodoo2. Where there is a will, there is often a way.

However, not every solution worked adequately. PCem and 86Box never felt right to me. VirtualBox frequently had minor display issues, before some sort of Windows update broke it entirely. Fan patches could be great when you can find them and weren't worried about malware. And dgVoodoo2 was fantastic if your only problem was D3D issues. Which was sometimes a big if.

I just got exhausted spending three days going through my gamut of possible solutions to getting a game running, when all I really wanted to do was spend 30 minutes replaying the first few stages and walk away satisfied. So I eventually caved and built my first actual hardware retro pc, and I've never looked back. So much nicer to just power on a system, maybe put in the CD, and play the game.

It's also had the fringe benefit of letting me really focus on a game without the allure of just checking the internet about this or that thing. That's more of a personal problem for me though.

Namrok wrote on 2023-08-01, 14:46:

It's also had the fringe benefit of letting me really focus on a game without the allure of just checking the internet about this or that thing. That's more of a personal problem for me though.

Nah. Many of us have that sort of addiction. That's why I'm glad I kept my X360 and PS3. Having a dedicated media player rather than watching stuff from my PC also helps me stay focused.

Namrok wrote on 2023-08-01, 14:46:

I had a whole array of solutions to running old games on a new computer. DOSBOX, PCem, 86Box, VirtualBox, fan patches, dgVoodoo2. Where there is a will, there is often a way.

However, not every solution worked adequately.

yes true, i like dosbox and gog installs especially for games and pcem for experiments but now and then something wont be quite right.

it is worth keeping one mid-late 90's win9x and/or dos machine around at least, and maybe a late 32bit xp machine too - although some software is quirky enough to require even more tinkering on real hardware

i admit i have never found DOS software that combined both problematic running in dosbox or win9x AND being so desirable that i just had to operate it without problems! in short, if it doesn't run on 9x or dosbox i usually don't really care enough anyway!

Whenever I see the prices on Ebay for old hardware, it amuses me, and I think about the amount of hardware that I have thrown away over the years, working repairing computers; If not because it was useless for daily use, it was because it failed. So paying a large sum for old hardware is funny to me. What I have that I didn't buy new, or I bought it for a symbolic sum, that is, something like a beer, or I did someone a favor by taking it out of the house so it wouldn't take up space.
Paying a large sum of money for something without any guarantee and without knowing its prior use seems illogical to me.
If you buy a used car, you want to look at the odometer and ask about the history of the car, revisions...etc.
You pay €200 for a graphics card that is 20 years old or older without knowing anything, you don't know if it was lying in a box or if it was used 24/7 and without any type of guarantee. That's not for me.
Of course, in my country, second-hand items sold by individuals also have a one-year guarantee by law against any failure. In the worst case a full refund. This makes my point of view what it is.

Hoping wrote on 2023-08-01, 15:52:

Paying a large sum of money for something without any guarantee and without knowing its prior use seems illogical to me.
If you buy a used car, you want to look at the odometer and ask about the history of the car, revisions...etc.

I think this can be contextual though.

If I am buying recent hardware (max of 5 years old or so) with the strict intent of just using it then I want something that works.

On the other hand, buying hardware that's 20+ years old, if it doesn't work or if it fails then I can restore it. I wouldn't necessarily expect old hardware to always work or last very long.

It's similar to how someone might buy an old car with the intent of restoring it.

Hoping wrote on 2023-08-01, 15:52:

You pay €200 for a graphics card that is 20 years old or older without knowing anything, you don't know if it was lying in a box or if it was used 24/7 and without any type of guarantee. That's not for me.

And not for the majority of people. Most of us don't pay that kind of money for decades old computer parts. Maybe whole systems, but not individual parts. There are a lot of old parts listed at high prices on Ebay. The common thing about them is that they are rarely sold. Only 3 types of people buy them. The most avid collectors with more money than sense, speculators, and content creators working on a deadline and needing something special/specific fast.

Hoping wrote on 2023-08-01, 15:52:

Of course, in my country, second-hand items sold by individuals also have a one-year guarantee by law against any failure. In the worst case a full refund. This makes my point of view what it is.

What? Where? I must be mistaken but are you saying that if I sell my used -Insert_Item_Name- I owe the buyer warranty that it's working properly and won't fail for one whole year?
No way. No god-dang way (in Hank Hill's voice).

Mandrew wrote on 2023-08-01, 18:29:

Hoping wrote on 2023-08-01, 15:52:

Of course, in my country, second-hand items sold by individuals also have a one-year guarantee by law against any failure. In the worst case a full refund. This makes my point of view what it is.

What? Where? I must be mistaken but are you saying that if I sell my used -Insert_Item_Name- I owe the buyer warranty that it's working properly and won't fail for one whole year?
No way. No god-dang way (in Hank Hill's voice).

There are countries where you do owe a certain period of warranty. Where I live we do have that 1-year warranty for second hand stuff. It only applies to unknown defects and intended use. For the first half a year the seller's responsibility to prove on their own expense if the failure is because of reasons covered by warranty or not. For the second half year it's the buyer's responsibility.

Between private individuals, it's difficult to enforce, unless there is a contract. So it's most commonly used for vehicles and other high value items that needs to be legally registered to the owner. The law does apply to other, lesser stuff like consumer electronics too, but most people are unaware about this.

RandomStranger wrote on 2023-08-01, 18:02:

The most avid collectors with more money than sense

I feel attacked. 😁

Mandrew wrote on 2023-08-01, 18:29:

Hoping wrote on 2023-08-01, 15:52:

Of course, in my country, second-hand items sold by individuals also have a one-year guarantee by law against any failure. In the worst case a full refund. This makes my point of view what it is.

What? Where? I must be mistaken but are you saying that if I sell my used -Insert_Item_Name- I owe the buyer warranty that it's working properly and won't fail for one whole year?
No way. No god-dang way (in Hank Hill's voice).

In Germany you have a 2 year warranty, unless the seller excludes it explicitly in the description. But the article description has to be correct, meaning that you can't sell a broken device as working and simply exclude warranty.

RandomStranger wrote on 2023-08-01, 19:08:

Between private individuals, it's difficult to enforce, unless there is a contract. So it's most commonly used for vehicles and other high value items that needs to be legally registered to the owner. The law does apply to other, lesser stuff like consumer electronics too, but most people are unaware about this.

This would just make me throw things in the trash. Imagine selling your old noisy washing machine to some guy online and he comes back a few months later that it's not working anymore, fix it at your expense. Or you sell your 30 year old computer to a collector AS-IS and he wants a refund because it's not working even though he bought it AS-IS. Or you sell a working GPU but the guy mishandles it and you have to give his money back because the law says it's your responsibility even if the guy broke the damn thing with ESD or something. If people started actively acting on this the used market would collapse because you'd have to write a detailed 5 page contract for every single item sold, even a $3 used hairdryer.
Scary, especially for people like me who buy and sell a ton of used stuff.

HanSolo wrote on 2023-08-01, 19:30:

In Germany you have a 2 year warranty, unless the seller excludes it explicitly in the description. But the article description has to be correct, meaning that you can't sell a broken device as working and simply exclude warranty.

Completely understandable, that would be a scam. But if I sell my old machine that is working NOW and the new buyer comes back months later to claim that it's suddenly broken I'd tell him to fuck off. I sold it as working and why would I offer warranty on a used item? That's asinine. I have a few motors that are more than 80 years old, those will PROBABLY never ever fail but I still wouldn't offer warranty for them, because... 80 years. I mean it could've been used by Stalin for all I know it's that fking old. Warranty? Ridiculous.

Actually, that is a common scam tactic where I live: guy buys a cheap but working car and tell the seller a few days later that the car broke down and it costs hundreds to fix it and they want the seller to foot the bill. They start harassing and threatening the seller until he/she gives in or scares them away.

Just to repeat myself: if this became a thing I'd dump everything in the trash.

Mandrew wrote on 2023-08-01, 19:57:

HanSolo wrote on 2023-08-01, 19:30:

In Germany you have a 2 year warranty, unless the seller excludes it explicitly in the description. But the article description has to be correct, meaning that you can't sell a broken device as working and simply exclude warranty.

Completely understandable, that would be a scam. But if I sell my old machine that is working NOW and the new buyer comes back months later to claim that it's suddenly broken I'd tell him to fuck off. I sold it as working and why would I offer warranty on a used item? That's asinine. I have a few motors that are more than 80 years old, those will PROBABLY never ever fail but I still wouldn't offer warranty for them, because... 80 years. I mean it could've been used by Stalin for all I know it's that fking old. Warranty? Ridiculous.

As I said, as a private seller you can exclude warranty. You just have to state that explicitly in the description. Not a big thing.

For better or for worse, the law is the law and if you meet a person who knows the law... you may end up in court for a second hand computer. Luckily I don't have my own experience, and I don't think something like this would happen frequently, but I understand that the outcome of a dispute of this type usually favors the buyer and in the worst case, when the dispute is lost, the costs of the trial would have to be paid. and etc...etc and of course refund the cost of the computer.
My previous boss refunded second-hand computers on occasion because they were more expensive to repair, for example laptops whose dedicated graphics card failed and involved a change of motherboard. At the time of the bumpgate this was common.
If the dedicated graphics card of a second-hand laptop fails, there is no way to blame the buyer, it cannot be said that it was his fault for playing Fortnite three days in a row, if the warranty seals are intact... no further explanation is needed.
It doesn't have to be like this, it can just happen. There are countries that have many laws aimed at protecting buyers from scammers, criminals and the abuses of large corporations. I think this is more common in the EU.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-08-01, 19:24:

RandomStranger wrote on 2023-08-01, 18:02:

The most avid collectors with more money than sense

I feel attacked. 😁

Most days I believe I'm bankrupt of both..... but I do have a pile of retro hardware.

For me it's all an efficiency thing. I spend less time messing around with my old hardware than I do getting some *modern solution* to run an emulator properly. It takes me 15 minutes to plug in my main 486 Desktop computer - that includes 17" CRT, keyboard, mouse, speakers, MIDI Passwthrough, and 2 Microsoft Sidewinder gamepads - than it does for me to tweak DOSBOX.conf or keep exiting out some SCUMMVM game over and over to see which soundcard I want to use. once all that's connected, I have a SB AWE64, VESA 2.0 compliant 2MB SVGA, and Ethernet Broadband internet - including Social Media in Windows 95 via RetroZilla.

I'm done collecting TBH, I have enough fun projects to keep me occupied for years as/is. Riight now I have on the list, a digitizer replacement (M/75), a CMOS battery replacement (FMA3500C), a few electronics projects, some of my own design (Tandy, M/75, 3500C), and some upgrades (CD-ROM for hte Compaq, and HDD upgrades for the Compaq and 3500C).

And I'm waiting for an FPGA system the size of a Raspberry Pi that will be able to program every component from the retro PC world with ten times more efficiency than the original.

Maryoo wrote on 2023-08-02, 08:00:

And I'm waiting for an FPGA system the size of a Raspberry Pi that will be able to program every component from the retro PC world with ten times more efficiency than the original.

Doesn't the MİSTer basically do this already?