Shponglefan wrote on 2023-08-31, 16:54:

For video cards, will a Riva 128, Voodoo and PowerVR setup place nicely together? Never tried this combination before.

I have that setup in my Pentium II 300mhz ultimate 1997 build, it works fine, but you need 3dcc installed.

I don't see the point of having a GUS in this build, since you say the focus will be on Win95 era games. Otherwise, specs look pretty good.

I would consider ditching the Riva128 for a Matrox Millennium II, simply for the superior 2D image quality. You can play Direct3D games on the Voodoo, and the latest official drivers even include the OpenGL ICD.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-31, 17:09:

I don't see the point of having a GUS in this build, since you say the focus will be on Win95 era games. Otherwise, specs look pretty good.

I would consider ditching the Riva128 for a Matrox Millennium II, simply for the superior 2D image quality. You can play Direct3D games on the Voodoo, and the latest official drivers even include the OpenGL ICD.

I agree with what was said about the GUS, it makes little sense in such a machine, but if you don't have anywhere else to put it, then let it stay 😀

For me I decided on the Riva128 since it trades blows with the Voodoo Graphics when it comes to performance. I was curious to see how it behaves in games as I have little personal experience with it. What I have found out is that Direct3D rendering isnt always perfect. For Windows usage it is quite good, but ofc it doesnt compare to the Matrox Millennium II.

since you are going with 233MMX I would go easy on myself and source LX board and Deschutes P2 233-300/Celeron Covington. Same release date, almost same price at release, slightly higher performance and a major difference being AGP opening graphic card selection up to more and cheaper options. The difference is $5-10 early AGP cards nobody wants vs $50-100 rare and sought after PCI cards. Not to mention socket 7 is insane expensive for what you get compared to early slot1 LX boards.

As a fan of the Riva 128, with a p233 I feel compelled to point out that the "authentic" 1997 experience is usually 30+ fps in first gen 3d games like GLQuake, 20 fps in Quake 2, and Unreal or Half Life from less than a year later being virtually unplayable except at the most compromised settings. I feel that a Riva 128 at the least needs a PII to stretch its legs even a little bit.

That said, I also run a Riva 128 on a p233 system for the masochistic experience of playing Quake 2 or Shogo at 20 fps or less just like I did when I was a child. So cheers.

vetz wrote on 2023-08-31, 16:58:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-08-31, 16:54:

For video cards, will a Riva 128, Voodoo and PowerVR setup place nicely together? Never tried this combination before.

I have that setup in my Pentium II 300mhz ultimate 1997 build, it works fine, but you need 3dcc installed.

Good to know, thank you!

And now also thinking of maybe doing a PII-300 as well, after reading a bit more about the PowerVR being CPU dependent.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-08-31, 17:09:

I don't see the point of having a GUS in this build, since you say the focus will be on Win95 era games.

Force of habit. I put a GUS in everything with an ISA slot. 😁

I would consider ditching the Riva128 for a Matrox Millennium II, simply for the superior 2D image quality. You can play Direct3D games on the Voodoo, and the latest official drivers even include the OpenGL ICD.

Part of my reason for the Riva 128 is just to compare with cards like the Voodoo. Just for an alternative more than anything else.

Though I've also been considering a Matrox card like a Mystique. I'll add the Millennium II to list of contenders as well.

Namrok wrote on 2023-09-01, 22:22:

As a fan of the Riva 128, with a p233 I feel compelled to point out that the "authentic" 1997 experience is usually 30+ fps in first gen 3d games like GLQuake, 20 fps in Quake 2, and Unreal or Half Life from less than a year later being virtually unplayable except at the most compromised settings. I feel that a Riva 128 at the least needs a PII to stretch its legs even a little bit.

That said, I also run a Riva 128 on a p233 system for the masochistic experience of playing Quake 2 or Shogo at 20 fps or less just like I did when I was a child. So cheers.

Lack of performance is part of the fun. 😁

This isn't really intended to be a performance build, as I have other systems for that. This is more of a "what was 3D gaming like in 1997?" type of build.

Though after reading about the PowerVR being CPU dependent (and now the Riva 128 as well it seems), I may go with an LX / PII-300 build instead. Keeps it 1997-authentic, but with some more horsepower.

rasz_pl wrote on 2023-09-01, 22:09:

since you are going with 233MMX I would go easy on myself and source LX board and Deschutes P2 233-300/Celeron Covington. Same release date, almost same price at release, slightly higher performance and a major difference being AGP opening graphic card selection up to more and cheaper options. The difference is $5-10 early AGP cards nobody wants vs $50-100 rare and sought after PCI cards. Not to mention socket 7 is insane expensive for what you get compared to early slot1 LX boards.

For the most part, I have all the hardware in question, so price isn't really an issue.

But I may opt for an LX / early AGP build instead, now that I've done some more research into relative performance difference of a PII of that era.

Maybe this calls for two separate builds just to compare. 😁

That's a nice machine for sure, especially for that time period. I didn't have a computer that nice until probably 1999-ish.

You mention that you want a "what was gaming like in 1997" feel, and depending on how hardcore you want to be about that, you might actually consider a slower build. Technically, you could buy these components in 1997, but the Riva 128 was released in August of that year, so the year was already half, and likewise the Pentium 233 was released in 1997, so a lot of people probably wouldn't have had it the same year except early adopters. Likewise the ram seems a little high for that exact year, if you want a really accurate feel of the average gaming machine in 1997.

But hey, this is all about fun, and those are great specs for a computer. So I say if you're having fun and enjoying it and want a computer with those components, just go for it! Those are all really cool components, a great processor, a great amount of ram, great sound card. I love that build, and technically these were all available in 1997. I wanted my Compaq to be completely stock, but it came with 128mb of ram (when it's supposed to have 24), and I've loved that extra ram so much that I just don't have the heart to take it out. There's something to be said for just having fun while also being mostly period correct.

If you really want a blazing cool machine, you can do a 333mhz with a Riva TNT, with the same specs aside from that. I had that exact spec of computer and it lasted me for many years, running an emulator with napster and a web browser open all at the same time. But that's definitely a little fast for 97.

I am also putting together a '97 build, originally I was also planning a 233MMX but I recently got an FX motherboard with a Klamath 300. I know the LX is better, but it's too similar to the BX other than the FSB speed to be interesting and I think the 440FX fits better with an "early 1997" kind of build with the Klamath PII-300 as the top (and most ridiculously expensive) CPU to come out that year.

For video I am planning on a Matrox Mystique and a Diamond Monster 3D. I think one of the nice advantages of a PII build vs a regular MMX is to be able to use FASTVID to get a considerable increase in VESA mode performance.

Oi you copied my build! 😆
just kidding.

But yeah I've got a similar build , generally I've found once you run into demanding games like Hexen 2 from 1997, I mean it still runs pretty well but it does stutter here and there. But games like Turok , Spec Ops , Monster Truck Madness , Diablo , Croc all run really well.

Generally the best thing I've found about doing a socket 7 build of that era is that it overlaps pretty well with DOS.
Also if you are dead set on a Triton Chipset the 430TX mobos have okay USB support so that makes it easier to transfer files via stick and not have to give up expansion slots for network cards. They also tend to have a lot of ISA slots.

So my system ended up being a bit of a hybrid between DOS 6.22/Win 3.1 and Windows 95 which I have on two separate hard drives.

The PowerVR is cool because you can run resident evil at 800x600 and some obscure jap only games , but its more of a novelty , but the support is alright.

Generally you'll probably be using the 3dfx voodoo for most stuff.

AWE64 has good 95 compatibility and works with most stuff and some games like croc use its soundfonts.

The Gus is yeah more of a DOS thing which I also have.

Though where our builds differ I also stuck in a SB16 CT1740 (for real OPL3 and because of conflicts) , Virge instead of a Riva128 , a Tandy LPT and a CMS LPT to cater to more DOS stuff.
And OFC ya gotta have a LGR midi stack.

So yeah I dunno , these kinda builds can be very niche and specific for 3D stuff, but can be more flexible games wise if you sort of also use it for older 2D DOS stuff and treat it like a hybrid system which is what I did.

Cause for later 3D stuff you'd probably want a Pentium 2 or 3 system , which I've got to do the heavy lifting , which you probably do to.

Here's a picture of what my setup has because its a bit convoluted:

Good choices but I think the Intel 200mhz Pentium was more period correct.
Its a Win95 era computer
32mb - 64mb ram ( memory was still very expensive back in 97 )
Maybe VX chipset ?

There is Magic in that Win-95 computer.

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-02, 01:02:

Though I've also been considering a Matrox card like a Mystique. I'll add the Millennium II to list of contenders as well.

The Millennium II uses the Mystique core for its 3D functionality.

Due to that, it can play games which support the proprietary MSI renderer, if that is of interest to you.

Enough has been said about components and performance. One point that's not been raised (or I missed it) is form factor.

1997 was the year that ATX started to break through, but most systems were still AT.

If you have lots of AT cases, PSUs, serial mice or 5V only USB cards, by all means go AT. If not, ATX is mich easier - you get USB and PS/2 on the motherboard, cases tend to be easier to work with and you can use modern PSUs (even if you need an adapter to get -12V on ISA). Much easier for a beginner (not that I'm implying you're such 😉 )

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-09-02, 10:10:

Shponglefan wrote on 2023-09-02, 01:02:

Though I've also been considering a Matrox card like a Mystique. I'll add the Millennium II to list of contenders as well.

The Millennium II uses the Mystique core for its 3D functionality.

Due to that, it can play games which support the proprietary MSI renderer, if that is of interest to you.

didn't it break compatibility with some mystique games though?

AppleSauce wrote on 2023-09-02, 13:36:

didn't it break compatibility with some mystique games though?

That may be true, I remember needing a newer MSI patch for Tomb Raider. But it did work fine on the Millennium II after that was installed.

I'd still take it over the Mystique for the WRAM and slightly better RAMDAC, but only if it was mainly used as a 2D card, with the Voodoo 1 handling all 3D duties.

dionb wrote on 2023-09-02, 11:12:

Enough has been said about components and performance. One point that's not been raised (or I missed it) is form factor.

1997 was the year that ATX started to break through, but most systems were still AT.

If you have lots of AT cases, PSUs, serial mice or 5V only USB cards, by all means go AT. If not, ATX is mich easier - you get USB and PS/2 on the motherboard, cases tend to be easier to work with and you can use modern PSUs (even if you need an adapter to get -12V on ISA). Much easier for a beginner (not that I'm implying you're such 😉 )

At the moment I'm leaning towards AT, since I have a nice case I wanted to use for this particular build.

Though if I do opt for a Pentium II-300 build, I may look at going ATX instead.

After doing some more research decided to go with a Pentium II 300 build.

I've acquired a couple AT Slot 1 boards based on the Intel LX chipset.

Still trying to decide on the sound card combo. I'm thinking maybe AWE64 + Diamond Monster Sound + Roland SCC-1?

If I do opt for a Monster Sound, I might add an XG wavetable. That would yield Sound Canvas/GS and XG support all in the box.