VOGONS


First post, by Imito

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Here is a list of things i have been buying to prepare myself with the job on repairing old pc hardware. Perhaps someone here can guide me if i am missing some.

List of basic things to buy :
1) You need a soldering station, One with hot air would be nice too.
2) Different models of soldering iron tips would also be nice to have
3) Flux
4) A lot of Isopropyl Alcohol
5) Desoldering braid
6) Soldering tin

List of extra things that would be nice to have
1) a USB microscope (i don´t have one yet but i think it would be good for soldering)
2) Magnify googles? vs magnifying glass? ( i bought these https://www.amazon.com/YOCTOSUN-Rechargeable- … /dp/B07T4KPYN2/ but they are not good, maximum zoo is 3.5x
4) Soldering UV mask
5) UV lamp, to cure the mask
6) a mini pen Drill

List of things to buy if you are full of money
- A desoldering Gun (costs a lot)
- Desoldering tweezers for smd components. (costs even more)

there is one thing i want to learn: how do you fix broken traces, what kind of copper wire do you buy, and that diameter should that wire have. Because 30AWG wire used for modchips is too big and its not made of copper.

Reply 1 of 17, by paradigital

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“Helping hands”. Something that can hold whatever you are working on at a good angle for you to get to it. Nothing worse than having to work at a jaunty angle just because there’s no good way to hold a card/board.

Good lighting in your working area.

Enamel coated speaker wire is great for bodge wires/trace repairing as it’s insulated until you burn the coating odd with your soldering iron.

Conformal coating, that sets with UV light, to re-cover any areas of solder mask that you’ve had to uncover to perform a repair.

Reply 2 of 17, by Namrok

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I tried, and marginally succeeded, with trace repair once. I got a few different sizes of enameled copper wire, because I wasn't sure what I needed exactly. I scraped off the enameling with an exacto knife. I saw people melt it off, but that never worked for me. After that I scraped away some of the solder mask on each end of the trace I needed to repair, tinned my wire, and tinned each end of the broken trace. I used much more wire than I needed for the patch, so that I had extra leading off each end I could tape down with some masking or painters tape. With the wire secured hands free, I gave each end a quick swipe with a very fine solder tip just to reflow the tinned parts. The I trimmed off the extra very carefully with an exacto knife. Working from the inside out so I never had to reach over my previous work, this went very well.

Took me 3 days of futile effort, attempting to copy various tutorials, to find a method that worked for me. The first day I couldn't get a single wire to stick. The second day after 3 hours I got one wire to stick. The third day that first wire came off as soon as I tried to get the second wire on. After profuse cussing, and a beer to calm my nerves, I went back at it and knocked the project out.

I was never able to successfully add solder directly to the patch connection like I saw in videos. It always just caused the wire to stick to the tip. Or the heat of the soldering iron would cause the wire to go all squirrelly on me and lift off the trace I was repairing.

In my case, I was repairing some broken traces around a Socket 939 chipset. It never got back it's full functionality, but it did boot again. It just went to shit whenever I installed an AGP driver. Not sure if I missed a trace, or the repair had enough signal problems to ruin AGP timings versus PCI timings.

Win95/DOS 7.1 - P233 MMX (@2.5 x 100 FSB), Diamond Viper V330 AGP, SB16 CT2800
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Win98 - Pentium III 1000, GF2 GTS, SBLive CT4760
WinXP - Athlon 64 3200+, GF 7800 GS, Audigy 2 ZS

Reply 3 of 17, by Pabloz

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helping hands indeed are a must.
with a good source of light straight to the board

careful with the air or you will end up sick. do it ventilated.

multimeter.

capacitor meter

to remove mask some fiber pen is good i heard

Reply 4 of 17, by Shponglefan

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This is pic of my current workspace which shows some of the tools I use on a regular basis.

First and foremost you want to have an space with accessible tool and parts storage, well ventilated, with a good amount space to work.

Workbench.jpg
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The tools needed really depends on the type of repairs and level of complexity you are looking to get into. Based on what I've used, I'd suggest the following:

Basic (basic through hole work and mechanical repairs)

Adjustable temperature Soldering iron - basic chisel tip is fine for most work
Fume extractor
De-soldering pump & copper braid
Leaded solder + flux
Multimeter
Pliers
Fine-tipped tweezers
Disassembly tools (screw driver kit, prying tools)
Flush cutters
Cotton Swaps, Paper towels
Solvents (IPA, Deoxit)
Lubricants (silicone, lithium grease)
Kapton (heat resistant) tape
Anti-static brushes
Storage bins
Tool storage - shelves, pegboard, bins, drawers, etc.
Personal protective equipment - gloves, mask, especially if using chemical solvents and glues
Good lighting and power outlets

Intermediate (more frequent repairs, some SMD work):

Board holders / Vises - I really love the PanaVise board holder; great for recapping motherboards (see below pic)
Basic magnifier
De-soldering gun - if you are recapping a lot of boards this is highly recommended
ESR meter
Component Tester
EPROM programmer & UV eraser - especially useful for BIOS chips
PCI/ISA motherboard diagnostics board - highly recommended for working on motherboards
Burnishing tools and/or Dremel with various sanding and polishing tips - good for corrosion removal

Motherboard Recap 04.jpg
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Advanced (SMD work, more advanced diagnostics):

Microscope
Hot air station
Logic Probe and/or Oscilloscope
Board heater
Thermal camera

Last edited by Shponglefan on 2023-10-06, 22:41. Edited 2 times in total.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 5 of 17, by davidrg

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Rather than desoldering braid (though I guess it might still be useful for something), if you can afford one desoldering guns are great. I've got a cheap one kind of like a less colourful one of these (probably from the same factory) and it can desolder pretty much any through-hole component in seconds with no fuss leaving an empty hole behind ready for the replacement component to be inserted.

Reply 6 of 17, by Shponglefan

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davidrg wrote on 2023-10-05, 21:26:

Rather than desoldering braid (though I guess it might still be useful for something), if you can afford one desoldering guns are great.

Agree on the de-soldering gun. Especially when you have a couple dozen caps to remove from a motherboard, the time savings is so worth it.

Though braid is still useful to have on hand for things like removing excess solder blobs, fixing solder bridges, etc.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 7 of 17, by Imito

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Shponglefan wrote on 2023-10-05, 20:52:

Board holders / Vises - I really love the PanaVise board holder; great for recapping motherboards (see below pic)

that looks amazing! i did not think about that!

When it comes so desoldering/soldering really small smd capacitors on a "GPU microprocessor", what tools - techniques do you recomend? since its a difficult area because of the dye ..i think hot air is not good. I was thinking about using two soldering irons with fine tip at the same time. because smd desoldering tweezers are also very expensive.

Reply 8 of 17, by analog_programmer

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Heat resistant (Kapton) tape is not in "advanced" but in "basic" category tools and supplies along with ordinary hot air gun.

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Reply 9 of 17, by paradigital

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Imito wrote on 2023-10-06, 00:07:

When it comes so desoldering/soldering really small smd capacitors on a "GPU microprocessor", what tools - techniques do you recomend? since its a difficult area because of the dye ..i think hot air is not good. I was thinking about using two soldering irons with fine tip at the same time. because smd desoldering tweezers are also very expensive.

Just use hot air. Shield with (scrap) metal and kapton tape any areas you want to protect from heat.

Reply 10 of 17, by Jo22

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This video about soldering/desoldering provides a good introduction.
The visuals are self-explaining, I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zt3iCJ6mS6s

"Time, it seems, doesn't flow. For some it's fast, for some it's slow.
In what to one race is no time at all, another race can rise and fall..." - The Minstrel

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Reply 11 of 17, by zyga64

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I think this video may be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dR8nqJzrnSg

also repair videos from Necroware/Scorp https://www.youtube.com/@necro_ware

1) VLSI SCAMP /286@20 /4M /CL-GD5422 /CMI8330
2) i420EX /486DX33 /16M /TGUI9440 /GUS+ALS100+MT32PI
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4) i440BX /P!!!750 /256M /MX440 /SBLive!
5) iB75 /3470s /4G /HD7750 /HDA

Reply 12 of 17, by mac57mac57

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Some things that might be of interest:

1/ Jewelers screw drivers, to assist with work on very small components such as fan parts. I also find them INCREDIBLY useful for flipping the DIP switches used to configure so many PC plug in cards.

2/ A magnetic screw retriever. How many times have you inadvertently dropped a screw into the machine while you were trying to seat it into its slot? A magnetic screw retriever is basically a slim telescoping "pole" about 6 to 8 inches long when extended, with a magnetic head. Just get it anywhere into the vicinity of the fallen screw, and the screw will latch on and can be easily pulled back out of the machine. This tool is priceless!

3/ A chip lifter. This is something that looks like an old time paperclip remover, but is incredibly handy for gently prying chips out of their sockets. It is VERY useful for lifting out RAM chips, and if you are routinely burning ROMs, extracting the last ROM you burned from its socket so as to replace it with a new one.

4/ An anti-static wrist strap, with an alligator clip to allow you to ground yourself to the case before you touch ANYTHING inside the machine.

5/ A strong pen light, for (literally) shining a bright light into dark corners of the machine you are trying to work on.

6/ A robust set of MOLEX extension cables, so that you can power up and try new things before you slot them into the case. I always stock multiple MOLEX extenders, most of them splitters (one in, two out). Also, you will need MOLEX to the standard Floppy power connecter as well, for the same reason.

7/ Good lighting and a large clear space to work in.

8/ A log book! Write down what you are doing, as you are doing it, in detail. When you are troubleshooting your way through a multi-faceted complex problem, a detailed record of what you have already done is invaluable.

Reply 13 of 17, by Shponglefan

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Imito wrote on 2023-10-06, 00:07:
Shponglefan wrote on 2023-10-05, 20:52:

Board holders / Vises - I really love the PanaVise board holder; great for recapping motherboards (see below pic)

that looks amazing! i did not think about that!

It's pretty sweet. 😀 I'm actually surprised more folks don't use them as being able to easily access both sides of the board at the same time is really useful for desoldering.

When it comes so desoldering/soldering really small smd capacitors on a "GPU microprocessor", what tools - techniques do you recomend? since its a difficult area because of the dye ..i think hot air is not good. I was thinking about using two soldering irons with fine tip at the same time. because smd desoldering tweezers are also very expensive.

Without seeing the specific board, I couldn't say.

I would think hot air would be fine, since you can use heat resistant tape to protect any adjacent components.

I also have removed SMD component with just a single soldering iron. I don't tend to use overly small tips, as smaller tips can result in a more difficult time with heat transfer.

I've never tried two irons at the same time, but I've also never found a need for it. Between a de-soldering gun, solder braid and a soldering with a decent chisel tip, I've yet to find any components I can't remove.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 14 of 17, by Shponglefan

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analog_programmer wrote on 2023-10-06, 03:59:

Heat resistant (Kapton) tape is not in "advanced" but in "basic" category tools and supplies along with ordinary hot air gun.

Fair point. I tweaked my list.

When I originally listed it I was thinking of it in concert with a hot air station. But it can serve to protect components even when just using an iron.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 15 of 17, by Shponglefan

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mac57mac57 wrote on 2023-10-06, 14:53:

8/ A log book! Write down what you are doing, as you are doing it, in detail. When you are troubleshooting your way through a multi-faceted complex problem, a detailed record of what you have already done is invaluable.

To add to this, I would also suggest taking a lot of photographs. Having a series of "before" pictures can come in really handy especially when trying to reassemble something.

And whenever available, detailed schematics are also invaluable.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards

Reply 16 of 17, by Repo Man11

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Shponglefan wrote on 2023-10-05, 20:52:
This is pic of my current workspace which shows some of the tools I use on a regular basis. […]
Show full quote

This is pic of my current workspace which shows some of the tools I use on a regular basis.

First and foremost you want to have an space with accessible tool and parts storage, well ventilated, with a good amount space to work.

Workbench.jpg

The tools needed really depends on the type of repairs and level of complexity you are looking to get into. Based on what I've used, I'd suggest the following:

Basic (basic through hole work and mechanical repairs)

Adjustable temperature Soldering iron - basic chisel tip is fine for most work
Fume extractor
De-soldering pump & copper braid
Leaded solder + flux
Multimeter
Pliers
Fine-tipped tweezers
Disassembly tools (screw driver kit, prying tools)
Flush cutters
Cotton Swaps, Paper towels
Solvents (IPA, Deoxit)
Lubricants (silicone, lithium grease)
Kapton (heat resistant) tape
Anti-static brushes
Storage bins
Tool storage - shelves, pegboard, bins, drawers, etc.
Personal protective equipment - gloves, mask, especially if using chemical solvents and glues
Good lighting and power outlets

Intermediate (more frequent repairs, some SMD work):

Board holders / Vises - I really love the PanaVise board holder; great for recapping motherboards (see below pic)
Basic magnifier
De-soldering gun - if you are recapping a lot of boards this is highly recommended
ESR meter
Component Tester
EPROM programmer & UV eraser - especially useful for BIOS chips
PCI/ISA motherboard diagnostics board - highly recommended for working on motherboards
Burnishing tools and/or Dremel with various sanding and polishing tips - good for corrosion removal

Motherboard Recap 04.jpg

Advanced (SMD work, more advanced diagnostics):

Microscope
Hot air station
Logic Probe and/or Oscilloscope
Board heater

Your work area is something that I'm sure most of us envy, and I doubt there is a member that has one better.

"I'd rather be rich than stupid" - Jack Handey

Reply 17 of 17, by Shponglefan

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Repo Man11 wrote on 2023-10-06, 20:58:

Your work area is something that I'm sure most of us envy, and I doubt there is a member that has one better.

I appreciate the sentiment. 😁

It does make me curious what others' work benches look like. I'm sure there are some folks that probably have some amazing setups, especially since some members design and engineer their own hardware.

Pentium 4 Multi-OS Build
486 DX4-100 with 6 sound cards
486 DX-33 with 5 sound cards