rarcher wrote on 2024-02-13, 00:30:

[*] Graphics card - Something solid and not overly expensive ideally. I recall most of my gaming in this era was on I think either ATI Rage and a similar type for NVidia I forget though for sure, but something around 32-64mb I think would be more than sufficient. Any recommendations? It doesn't have to be even period correct long as it isn't stupidly expensive and works for Windows 9x and is AGP 3.3v compliant - For reference games Im looking at are quake 1-3 and Half-life 1, blue shift, opposing forces and similar era games.

I was going to say that your graphics card ambitions were overly low-end, but now that I am looking at just this... Quake 3 is a 1999-era game, aren't you going to need a somewhat more muscly system than a K6 with, say, a TNT2?

(Also, if you're going all-out for this time period... you really need a Voodoo card...)

I'm just a bit at a loss here because your entire project doesn't seem aligned with a particular game era. This is a bit too new but barely for late DOS games, but... not exactly peak Win98-era hardware and I suspect this system would struggle with games from, say, 1999-2000 - right around the time before the game developers were finally forced to support this new-fangled NT thing. Or rather, let me put it this way - you seem to be planning to build an all-out 98SE retro machine (e.g. putting in way, way more RAM than you could ever use) in every way other than CPU and video card.

VivienM wrote on 2024-02-13, 00:56:

I was going to say that your graphics card ambitions were overly low-end, but now that I am looking at just this... Quake 3 is a […]
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rarcher wrote on 2024-02-13, 00:30:

[*] Graphics card - Something solid and not overly expensive ideally. I recall most of my gaming in this era was on I think either ATI Rage and a similar type for NVidia I forget though for sure, but something around 32-64mb I think would be more than sufficient. Any recommendations? It doesn't have to be even period correct long as it isn't stupidly expensive and works for Windows 9x and is AGP 3.3v compliant - For reference games Im looking at are quake 1-3 and Half-life 1, blue shift, opposing forces and similar era games.

I was going to say that your graphics card ambitions were overly low-end, but now that I am looking at just this... Quake 3 is a 1999-era game, aren't you going to need a somewhat more muscly system than a K6 with, say, a TNT2?

(Also, if you're going all-out for this time period... you really need a Voodoo card...)

I'm just a bit at a loss here because your entire project doesn't seem aligned with a particular game era. This is a bit too new but barely for late DOS games, but... not exactly peak Win98-era hardware and I suspect this system would struggle with games from, say, 1999-2000 - right around the time before the game developers were finally forced to support this new-fangled NT thing. Or rather, let me put it this way - you seem to be planning to build an all-out 98SE retro machine (e.g. putting in way, way more RAM than you could ever use) in every way other than CPU and video card.

So you are most likely right, I am misremembering what GFX card I used. My memory sucks at the best of times, so I'm probably forgetting what it was I used in this era more clearly. So putting this mistake aside, mostly the gaming era I'm looking at is roughly 94/95 till about 99/2kish or so at most mostly when Windows 2k/xp came out I had switched to such a machine for gaming. Either case let me try asking on a clean fresh. What GFX cards would one suggest for the above time period in combination with the example games? And would be appropriate being put into an AGP 3.3v compliant slot for running on Win98?

GeForce 256 DDR or GeForce 2 would be period correct for 1999-2000. GeForce 3 or 4 would be a higher performance option, although on a K6/Super Socket 7 build you'll likely be CPU limited at that point.

If you are targeting 1999/2000 games at the high end, I'd probably go with a Pentium III or Athlon build.

rarcher wrote on 2024-02-13, 01:20:

So you are most likely right, I am misremembering what GFX card I used. My memory sucks at the best of times, so I'm probably forgetting what it was I used in this era more clearly. So putting this mistake aside, mostly the gaming era I'm looking at is roughly 94/95 till about 99/2kish or so at most mostly when Windows 2k/xp came out I had switched to such a machine for gaming. Either case let me try asking on a clean fresh. What GFX cards would one suggest for the above time period in combination with the example games? And would be appropriate being put into an AGP 3.3v compliant slot for running on Win98?

Or you're remembering correctly what you used, but it wasn't particularly good, even for the time... (certainly that was the case for my 1998-era system, which I wouldn't wish on anyone with a retro interest. And even my decent 2000-era-system had a TNT2 M64, but hey, it was the best I could afford, I couldn't afford the GeForce. But I think a TNT2 M64 remains e-waste in the retro community...)

1994-95 games will overwhelmingly be DOS (unless you really want to play Civilization II... but I don't think you need a retro system for that, especially when I believe there's a 32-bit port of CivII floating around) and won't have 3D hardware acceleration, so a good 2D card with good DOS compatibility will do you very nicely.

1999-2000 is into the Voodoo and post-Voodoo era. GeForce 2 came out mid-2000. Gaming world's move away from Glide and Voodoo is accelerating. By this point, everything except strategy games (SimCity 3000, Civilization III which is late-2001, Age of Empires II, etc) is using 3D hardware. And... I would think most titles from 2000 would struggle on a K6, at least by modern standards.

Maybe the answer is - you need a third retro system 😀 One that's sorta late PIII or Athlon XP with a GF2/3/4 and 256+ megs of RAM on 98SE. And then refocus this project to ~64 megs of RAM or less, non-3D accelerated games, etc, at least until you can get your hands on a Voodoo 2 😀

VivienM wrote on 2024-02-13, 01:35:

Or you're remembering correctly what you used, but it wasn't particularly good, even for the time... (certainly that was the cas […]
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rarcher wrote on 2024-02-13, 01:20:

So you are most likely right, I am misremembering what GFX card I used. My memory sucks at the best of times, so I'm probably forgetting what it was I used in this era more clearly. So putting this mistake aside, mostly the gaming era I'm looking at is roughly 94/95 till about 99/2kish or so at most mostly when Windows 2k/xp came out I had switched to such a machine for gaming. Either case let me try asking on a clean fresh. What GFX cards would one suggest for the above time period in combination with the example games? And would be appropriate being put into an AGP 3.3v compliant slot for running on Win98?

Or you're remembering correctly what you used, but it wasn't particularly good, even for the time... (certainly that was the case for my 1998-era system, which I wouldn't wish on anyone with a retro interest. And even my decent 2000-era-system had a TNT2 M64, but hey, it was the best I could afford, I couldn't afford the GeForce. But I think a TNT2 M64 remains e-waste in the retro community...)

1994-95 games will overwhelmingly be DOS (unless you really want to play Civilization II... but I don't think you need a retro system for that, especially when I believe there's a 32-bit port of CivII floating around) and won't have 3D hardware acceleration, so a good 2D card with good DOS compatibility will do you very nicely.

1999-2000 is into the Voodoo and post-Voodoo era. GeForce 2 came out mid-2000. Gaming world's move away from Glide and Voodoo is accelerating. By this point, everything except strategy games (SimCity 3000, Civilization III which is late-2001, Age of Empires II, etc) is using 3D hardware. And... I would think most titles from 2000 would struggle on a K6, at least by modern standards.

Maybe the answer is - you need a third retro system 😀 One that's sorta late PIII or Athlon XP with a GF2/3/4 and 256+ megs of RAM on 98SE. And then refocus this project to ~64 megs of RAM or less, non-3D accelerated games, etc, at least until you can get your hands on a Voodoo 2 😀

Or since I dont have my original Q3 and Halflife 1 cds anymore but i do and can play them on my personal pc focus on those older games from the 94-2k i do have, which funny enough are some of those games I do have. Example Civ-1/2, Star Trek birth of the federation, I also have alot of the doom for windows 95 stuff. And as I said quake 1/2 and similar games running it. Looking at this and thinking I dont really plan to do MUCH gaming TBH the 3d rendering/poser stuff is probably more likely to happen plus using the old convertor stuff i mentioned above is more likely. Considering this I think a RIVA TNT2 might be my way to go or ATI's version of it looking through EBay at a glance atm voodoos of any type just seem too pricey vs the TNT2s and such i'm seeing

As for the memory you are right I could just go with 256 or less but given the mor elikely use as a causal 3d rendering model/poser setup too I feel like the 512-768 would be better then

rarcher wrote on 2024-02-13, 02:04:

As for the memory you are right I could just go with 256 or less but given the mor elikely use as a causal 3d rendering model/poser setup too I feel like the 512-768 would be better then

If your board will take PC133, the one thing I would suggest is that you buy PC133 instead of 100. That way, you could take your 3x256, keep a more than plentiful 256 in the K6, and reuse 2x256 for a later project like an i815 PIII or... hmm... are most socket A Athlon boards SDRAM or DDR1? I should know this but I never was an AMD guy...

So I ended up going with this listing on ebay for a EVGA nVidia Riva e-TNT2 32MB AGP card, as it was complete with the original box, only opened for testing which it passed originally wanted $69.96 but I offered $55 and he countered with $60 so I accepted that

VivienM wrote on 2024-02-13, 02:37:

rarcher wrote on 2024-02-13, 02:04:

As for the memory you are right I could just go with 256 or less but given the mor elikely use as a causal 3d rendering model/poser setup too I feel like the 512-768 would be better then

If your board will take PC133, the one thing I would suggest is that you buy PC133 instead of 100. That way, you could take your 3x256, keep a more than plentiful 256 in the K6, and reuse 2x256 for a later project like an i815 PIII or... hmm... are most socket A Athlon boards SDRAM or DDR1? I should know this but I never was an AMD guy...

Sadly the board only takes 66/100 speed sticks, which is I think fine for my use

rarcher wrote on 2024-02-13, 02:39:

So I ended up going with this listing on ebay for a EVGA nVidia Riva e-TNT2 32MB AGP card, as it was complete with the original box, only opened for testing which it passed originally wanted $69.96 but I offered $55 and he countered with $60 so I accepted that

Sorry, but 60...USD? for a TNT2 seems like a lot... although if it has the original box and is effectively NOS, then sure...

What's the going eBay rate for something like a GF4 MX?

VivienM wrote on 2024-02-13, 03:04:

rarcher wrote on 2024-02-13, 02:39:

So I ended up going with this listing on ebay for a EVGA nVidia Riva e-TNT2 32MB AGP card, as it was complete with the original box, only opened for testing which it passed originally wanted $69.96 but I offered $55 and he countered with $60 so I accepted that

Sorry, but 60...USD? for a TNT2 seems like a lot... although if it has the original box and is effectively NOS, then sure...

What's the going eBay rate for something like a GF4 MX?

So I admit its a little higher then some others listed, but because it was in a still color bright box for tiny collector in me I liked the idea of that vs some others being 10-20 and looking a bit rough in places

As for the GF4 MX? Looks at a quick glance between 15-40+ but again all used and not in boxes etc and some look a bit quite dusty. I dont mind dust and cleaning them up but seemed also they could have been smoker case pulls which i DONT like i hate and despise that smell

Whoa have you bought all this yet? I'd say 512mb RAM only, otherwise Win98 needs a patch, and PC133 is OK it will clock to 100 and open up the potential for latency tweaks. Harddrive, just do what you were thinking, you're bus/interface limited anyway. The SSD, if compatible, will only give you access time, like 1/10th a HDD. I don't think it's worth it. And you just need an ATX power supply that has a 20 pin connector, most 24 pin connectors have a folding split ... you know this right? Everything else can be purchased at a leisurely pace. Nice build BTW.

bartonxp wrote on 2024-02-13, 03:47:

Whoa have you bought all this yet? I'd say 512mb RAM only, otherwise Win98 needs a patch, and PC133 is OK it will clock to 100 and open up the potential for latency tweaks. Harddrive, just do what you were thinking, you're bus/interface limited anyway. The SSD, if compatible, will only give you access time, like 1/10th a HDD. I don't think it's worth it. And you just need an ATX power supply that has a 20 pin connector, most 24 pin connectors have a folding split ... you know this right? Everything else can be purchased at a leisurely pace. Nice build BTW.

It had been a while since I worked on such old pc parts. I was pretty sure I would be fine with an ATX PSU with 20/24 pin split but I wanted to make sure from folks who dabbled in this more then me. Thanks everyone. As for the parts bought those listed up above is what I got/bought so far, the to buy/optional stuff is still in the works. I'm in no rush on this really. Big thing I really REALLY want is a good older style case doesnt gotta be beige even just lighter colored and have say 2 2.5 bays and 1-2 3.5 external bays long as then I can fit everything else in this I'm golden. Hell I can even probably get it painted like I want. Big irk I have is every case I'm looking at thats newer (aka modern) has annoying front panel junk OR doesnt have external stuff (or both!) Can anyone suggest an ATX tower/mid tower or desktop case to look for?

Good luck finding a case. There's lots out there but front bay options are getting scarce. Best taking your time on that one, research and see what's even available, what to even consider, and then when you know what you want spend like an unrestrained monster. A case is like a monitor, you look at it a lot so spend some money on it.

just a quick note
i'm owner of PA-2013. And my board just does not work with nvidia cards ( fx5200 pci, agp 6200, etc). but work perfectly fine with matrox g450, savage4, ATI cards (9250 agp).
make sure you have backup non-nvidia card.

board support only 512mb ram max. do not install more than than.

dm- wrote on 2024-02-13, 05:26:

just a quick note i'm owner of PA-2013. And my board just does not work with nvidia cards ( fx5200 pci, agp 6200, etc). but work […]
Show full quote

just a quick note
i'm owner of PA-2013. And my board just does not work with nvidia cards ( fx5200 pci, agp 6200, etc). but work perfectly fine with matrox g450, savage4, ATI cards (9250 agp).
make sure you have backup non-nvidia card.

board support only 512mb ram max. do not install more than than.

So I looked into this from what I see it usually was due to people using either newer 4/8x agp cards which werent backwards capable to agp 1x/2x at 3.3v or they were but people didnt set certain settings right to run at the 3.3v. That said i do have a back up ATI AGP card i forget what atm though

So after some thought, and working with my Dad who is a CNC machinist and has a full workshop in his basement and a ton of various metals. We decided we're going to make my own desktop/tower framed case. Probably use some thicker metal for a rectangular shape then thinner sheets for the rest. This way I can get it powder coated and painted if I want! I'll post some pics of everything once I get going on it. It may cost a bit more time/effort and maybe money BUT I get what I want for displaying most importantly!

rarcher wrote on 2024-02-14, 16:35:

dm- wrote on 2024-02-13, 05:26:

just a quick note i'm owner of PA-2013. And my board just does not work with nvidia cards ( fx5200 pci, agp 6200, etc). but work […]
Show full quote

just a quick note
i'm owner of PA-2013. And my board just does not work with nvidia cards ( fx5200 pci, agp 6200, etc). but work perfectly fine with matrox g450, savage4, ATI cards (9250 agp).
make sure you have backup non-nvidia card.

board support only 512mb ram max. do not install more than than.

So I looked into this from what I see it usually was due to people using either newer 4/8x agp cards which werent backwards capable to agp 1x/2x at 3.3v or they were but people didnt set certain settings right to run at the 3.3v. That said i do have a back up ATI AGP card i forget what atm though

It's not an agp issue. i have a PCI version of fx5200 and it does not work properly. same card work fine on socket 5/7 systems (intel) and even PPRo 440fx board.

dm- wrote on 2024-02-15, 03:56:

rarcher wrote on 2024-02-14, 16:35:

dm- wrote on 2024-02-13, 05:26:

just a quick note i'm owner of PA-2013. And my board just does not work with nvidia cards ( fx5200 pci, agp 6200, etc). but work […]
Show full quote

just a quick note
i'm owner of PA-2013. And my board just does not work with nvidia cards ( fx5200 pci, agp 6200, etc). but work perfectly fine with matrox g450, savage4, ATI cards (9250 agp).
make sure you have backup non-nvidia card.

board support only 512mb ram max. do not install more than than.

So I looked into this from what I see it usually was due to people using either newer 4/8x agp cards which werent backwards capable to agp 1x/2x at 3.3v or they were but people didnt set certain settings right to run at the 3.3v. That said i do have a back up ATI AGP card i forget what atm though

It's not an agp issue. i have a PCI version of fx5200 and it does not work properly. same card work fine on socket 5/7 systems (intel) and even PPRo 440fx board.

My mistake then just going off what I read but I'll keep it in mind!

So been quiet for a while lets get some updates.

So first after some consideration from advice for above plus what my main goals were I set aside the FIC SS7 motherboard for another time as well as its AGP and memory.

Instead I got my hands on an Intel AG430HX (Agate) OEM sony motherboard, coming with 64mb memory, and a pentium 166 mmx cpu. Board had a built in ATI and sound system so kept that normal for now. But its bios was the original and was whigging out on thinking it was the year 1900 so y2k bug it seemed. Before flashing though with the sony latest bios from retroweb I checked all jumpers were set right, bios jumpers, capacitors and replaced the cmos battery and such. All were in good state. It did boot up to bios though but wouldnt accept any dates past 1999 but i was able to get by this enough to install dos 622 and with the bios flash utility run the update off the hard drive after transferring it all from the gotek usb image without problems. As the flash was verified in the program for the board I started the update again so far no problems.

But then disaster struck! Some idiot up the road from us hit a power pole and killed our power for over two hours when it was half way done updating. Now the bios is corrupted, and I cant find a recovery bios image. Can someone assist on this please? Either by helping me locate the recovery image or suggesting another means of fixing the corrupted bios, it wont even boot up to post or show anything on screen!