Chkcpu wrote on 2024-02-15, 16:48:

I mostly agree, but looking at the IDT WinChip BIOS writers guide, I found this table on page 7: […]
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weedeewee wrote on 2024-02-15, 14:17:

Well the link you posted has a nice table, including a reference to the winchip-2A […]
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H3nrik V! wrote on 2024-02-15, 13:58:

Well, the link I posted, mentions a lot of non-integer multipliers, and the photo in the original post also shows 2.33 written on the actual cpu in question?

Well the link you posted has a nice table, including a reference to the winchip-2A

setting the multiplier to

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15.0x	2.5x	5.5x	3.0x	2.0x	1.5x	3.5x	4.0x	4.5x 	means
22.33x	2.5x	2.66x	3.0x	3.33x	3.5x	4.0x	4.5x	5.0x	actual multiplier

I mostly agree, but looking at the IDT WinChip BIOS writers guide, I found this table on page 7:

Winchip multipliers.png

When helping with beta testing my CHKCPU CPU Identification utility update last year, member Nemo1985 tested these settings on his WinChip 2A and confirmed this table to be correct, including the remap to 3.33x at the 2.0x setting. This means that the 2.0x multiplier is not available on the Winchip 2A.

@JustJulião, most tools won’t display these WinChip 2A multipliers correctly, but my DOS tool CHKCPU will. However, you will need to use the updated CHKCPU v1.27.1 for that. Older CHKCPU versions don’t support these weird multipliers. 😉
A link to my website is in my signature below. You can download CHKCPU there.

Now about the BIOS of your jumperless QDI Titanium IB+ board. Both the latest June 1998 V1.5SL and the patched January 2000 V1.5SB beta BIOS don’t support the WinChip 2(A)(B). The original WinChip C6 is supported but when running a WinChip 2/2A/2B, the SpeedEasy CPU SETUP in Jumper Emulation Mode will allow control of the BF1/BF0 pins only, resulting in a possible selection of the first four multiplier settings from the above table. So BF2 is fixed at a logical “1” and can’t be controlled.

The BIOS will indicate the WinChip C6 multipliers for these four BF1/BF0 combinations, so for the WinChip 2A the translation will be:

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1BIOS			Actual
2x2, BF1/BF0=0/0	x2.5
3x3, BF1/BF0=0/1	x3.0
4x2, BF1/BF0=1/0	x3.33
5x4, BF1/BF0=1/1	x3.5

I expect this is the behavior you get. Please let us know if you see something different.

Cheers, Jan

Wait... So you are the Jan Steunebrink. I used countless of your patched Bioses since I'm a teenager! This forum is amazing.
Btw, your utility got it right, it seems!

Thank you for your amazing work!

Jan is indeed a treasure. Salute 🫡 He has helped me on many of my boards!

Thanks for the kind words guys. 😀
Over the years I devoted a lot of my spare time to this Socket 7 BIOS patching project, and it’s nice to hear it is appreciated!

H3nrik V! wrote on 2024-02-14, 21:32:

Well, assuming the 75 MHz is correct (which is plausible) and the 250 is also correct, it would imply a 3.33 multiplier, which most software wouldn't know of? Thus guessing multiplier and fsb to yield the measured clock speed?

JustJulião wrote on 2024-02-16, 21:20:

Btw, your utility got it right, it seems!
download/file.php?id=185559&mode=view

Yes, H3nrik V! was right and as he and others pointed out, the W2A remaps the x2 multiplier setting to x3.33.

JustJulião wrote on 2024-02-15, 19:19:

I use the patched bios, but it does show a sad "66MHz" instead of the CPU's name when posting.
In the BIOS itself it just states "Winchip".

Most S5/S7 BIOSes from mid 1997 and later have support for the WinChip C6, but WinChip 2 support started to appear later in July 1998 and was generally available in BIOSes by the end of 1998.
Note that the QDI Titanium IB+ January 2000 V1.5SB beta BIOS, where I base my patched version on, was actually build on the BIOS core of the latest official June 1998 V1.5SL BIOS. That’s why neither has WC2 support.
I selected the January 2000 V1.5SB beta BIOS for my K6plus patch because it has better K6-2 support with higher multiplier selections in the SpeedEasy CPU SETUP menu.

I did the patch J.2 Titanium IB+ BIOS in September 2003, in the early days of my K6plus BIOS support project. In the past 20 years I learned some new tricks and this TIB+ BIOS can sure use an update, like the improved 32GB HDD limit bugfix and the Win98 UDMA bugfix.
As this BIOS already has WinChip C6 support, it shouldn’t be hard to add WC2 support as well. I don’t know if I can expand the multiplier selections as well, but I will look into that too.

Give me a few weeks to get this new patch J.3 BIOS ready…

Cheers, Jan

Chkcpu wrote on 2024-02-17, 10:18:

Thanks for the kind words guys. :) Over the years I devoted a lot of my spare time to this Socket 7 BIOS patching project, and i […]
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Thanks for the kind words guys. 😀
Over the years I devoted a lot of my spare time to this Socket 7 BIOS patching project, and it’s nice to hear it is appreciated!

H3nrik V! wrote on 2024-02-14, 21:32:

Well, assuming the 75 MHz is correct (which is plausible) and the 250 is also correct, it would imply a 3.33 multiplier, which most software wouldn't know of? Thus guessing multiplier and fsb to yield the measured clock speed?

JustJulião wrote on 2024-02-16, 21:20:

Btw, your utility got it right, it seems!
download/file.php?id=185559&mode=view

Yes, H3nrik V! was right and as he and others pointed out, the W2A remaps the x2 multiplier setting to x3.33.

JustJulião wrote on 2024-02-15, 19:19:

I use the patched bios, but it does show a sad "66MHz" instead of the CPU's name when posting.
In the BIOS itself it just states "Winchip".

Most S5/S7 BIOSes from mid 1997 and later have support for the WinChip C6, but WinChip 2 support started to appear later in July 1998 and was generally available in BIOSes by the end of 1998.
Note that the QDI Titanium IB+ January 2000 V1.5SB beta BIOS, where I base my patched version on, was actually build on the BIOS core of the latest official June 1998 V1.5SL BIOS. That’s why neither has WC2 support.
I selected the January 2000 V1.5SB beta BIOS for my K6plus patch because it has better K6-2 support with higher multiplier selections in the SpeedEasy CPU SETUP menu.

I did the patch J.2 Titanium IB+ BIOS in September 2003, in the early days of my K6plus BIOS support project. In the past 20 years I learned some new tricks and this TIB+ BIOS can sure use an update, like the improved 32GB HDD limit bugfix and the Win98 UDMA bugfix.
As this BIOS already has WinChip C6 support, it shouldn’t be hard to add WC2 support as well. I don’t know if I can expand the multiplier selections as well, but I will look into that too.

Give me a few weeks to get this new patch J.3 BIOS ready…

Cheers, Jan

I don't have many rigs that I leave alone and just use, but this one is one of these few, I even planed to present it on Vogons. So I'd definitely use it. Especially if you manage to add W2 support.
Your rock!

Chkcpu wrote on 2024-02-17, 10:18:

I did the patch J.2 Titanium IB+ BIOS in September 2003, in the early days of my K6plus BIOS support project. In the past 20 years I learned some new tricks and this TIB+ BIOS can sure use an update, like the improved 32GB HDD limit bugfix and the Win98 UDMA bugfix.
As this BIOS already has WinChip C6 support, it shouldn’t be hard to add WC2 support as well. I don’t know if I can expand the multiplier selections as well, but I will look into that too.

Give me a few weeks to get this new patch J.3 BIOS ready…

wow, I only today installed your patched BIOS and was about to email you with a plea to add support for a mobile Pentium MMX 266 (SL2Z4), it has low VCORE of 1.9V and as of now with patched BIOS installed board sets 3.4V for it 🙁
could you please add it to the new version? and one more thing, is it even possible to lower the voltage for the I/O from 3.3 to 2.5V via BIOS? if yes - please consider adding it also for the SL2Z4.

S0N1C wrote on 2024-02-25, 15:46:

Chkcpu wrote on 2024-02-17, 10:18:

I did the patch J.2 Titanium IB+ BIOS in September 2003, in the early days of my K6plus BIOS support project. In the past 20 years I learned some new tricks and this TIB+ BIOS can sure use an update, like the improved 32GB HDD limit bugfix and the Win98 UDMA bugfix.
As this BIOS already has WinChip C6 support, it shouldn’t be hard to add WC2 support as well. I don’t know if I can expand the multiplier selections as well, but I will look into that too.

Give me a few weeks to get this new patch J.3 BIOS ready…

wow, I only today installed your patched BIOS and was about to email you with a plea to add support for a mobile Pentium MMX 266 (SL2Z4), it has low VCORE of 1.9V and as of now with patched BIOS installed board sets 3.4V for it 🙁
could you please add it to the new version? and one more thing, is it even possible to lower the voltage for the I/O from 3.3 to 2.5V via BIOS? if yes - please consider adding it also for the SL2Z4.

If there are any socket 7 bioses that allow setting of vcore I am unaware, or there are only a small number.

It is not necessary to set vio to 2.5v to run tillamook. 3.3vio will work properly.

However, you must set at least 1.6-2.1v core on the motherboard.

This is done in every instance I can recall through jumpers/dip on the motherboard.

If your motherboard doesn’t support this, you will need an interposer.

Many motherboards supported tillamook recognition. Far more than supported late k6-3+

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-26, 04:51:

If there are any socket 7 bioses that allow setting of vcore I am unaware, or there are only a small number.

QDI P5I430TX (Titanium IB+) has no jumpers and uses BIOS for setting VCORE , bus frequency and multiplier, that's why I asked if it is possible to add this CPU to patched BIOS

S0N1C wrote on 2024-02-26, 08:14:

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-26, 04:51:

If there are any socket 7 bioses that allow setting of vcore I am unaware, or there are only a small number.

QDI P5I430TX (Titanium IB+) has no jumpers and uses BIOS for setting VCORE , bus frequency and multiplier, that's why I asked if it is possible to add this CPU to patched BIOS

That’s wild. Ahead of its time.

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-26, 16:27:

S0N1C wrote on 2024-02-26, 08:14:

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-26, 04:51:

If there are any socket 7 bioses that allow setting of vcore I am unaware, or there are only a small number.

QDI P5I430TX (Titanium IB+) has no jumpers and uses BIOS for setting VCORE , bus frequency and multiplier, that's why I asked if it is possible to add this CPU to patched BIOS

That’s wild. Ahead of its time.

Yes and it's a good board overall. Stable, and not too picky.
I made a video of benchmarks on this setup, with a Voodoo 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-3EIBYk5Mw
It's on par with another setup with a Pentium 233. The board isn't the same though, it's an AOpen AP5T.

JustJulião wrote on 2024-02-26, 17:49:

Yes and it's a good board overall. Stable, and not too picky. I made a video of benchmarks on this setup, with a Voodoo 1. htt […]
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Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-26, 16:27:

S0N1C wrote on 2024-02-26, 08:14:

QDI P5I430TX (Titanium IB+) has no jumpers and uses BIOS for setting VCORE , bus frequency and multiplier, that's why I asked if it is possible to add this CPU to patched BIOS

That’s wild. Ahead of its time.

Yes and it's a good board overall. Stable, and not too picky.
I made a video of benchmarks on this setup, with a Voodoo 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-3EIBYk5Mw
It's on par with another setup with a Pentium 233. The board isn't the same though, it's an AOpen AP5T.

Is the voltage control automatic or manual control? What settings do you have access to now?

you can switch to manual and set needed voltage but only if it knows the CPU, for example it detected 2.8V for Pentium MMX no problem and I can to switch to manual and raise it, but for Tillamook it defaults to 3.4V and not adjustable 🙁

a little off-topic, I modded a VGA cooler to use with this board so it wouldn't interfere with long cards 😀

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6504327

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-26, 19:33:

JustJulião wrote on 2024-02-26, 17:49:

Yes and it's a good board overall. Stable, and not too picky. I made a video of benchmarks on this setup, with a Voodoo 1. htt […]
Show full quote

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-26, 16:27:

That’s wild. Ahead of its time.

Yes and it's a good board overall. Stable, and not too picky.
I made a video of benchmarks on this setup, with a Voodoo 1.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-3EIBYk5Mw
It's on par with another setup with a Pentium 233. The board isn't the same though, it's an AOpen AP5T.

Is the voltage control automatic or manual control? What settings do you have access to now?

It can be set manually, but restricted to a range depending your CPU.
If I remember well, from 3.2V to 3.5V with the Winchip.
On other CPUs, I got separated core voltage and I/O voltage, with appropriate values for desktop PMMX CPUs.

but I/O voltage is not adjustable 🙁

S0N1C wrote on 2024-02-26, 20:02:

you can switch to manual and set needed voltage but only if it knows the CPU, for example it detected 2.8V for Pentium MMX no problem and I can to switch to manual and raise it, but for Tillamook it defaults to 3.4V and not adjustable 🙁
20240226_215552.jpg

Dear lard…. That’s no good.

Might have to get an interposer

Don’t worry about vio. if you insist though, my interposer allows vio to be powered seperately. See pcb projects in sig

I'm still hoping it is possible to add Tillamook to the QDI's BIOS as it was done by Chkcpu with K6-3 , if not then I'll maybe use SS7 board... I just didn't want an AGP tempting me 😀

Speaking of win chipage,

I got a gold top today. (In the box)

The package seems to have a place where ram might have been included. Any idea what sticks may have been included? Thinkin of adding them to the package.

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-27, 03:33:

Speaking of win chipage,

I got a gold top today. (In the box)

The package seems to have a place where ram might have been included. Any idea what sticks may have been included? Thinkin of adding them to the package.

Nice ! Is it a 2.33x100 like mine or a 3.5x66 ?

Hi all,

I received several requests for changes to the QDI Titanium IB+ BIOS. So I have been working on a patch J.3 BIOS update for this jumperless board, and I made some progress.

@JustJulião,
I was able to add IDT WinChip 2/2A/2B support. The new BIOS now properly detects these IDT models and displays them correctly as IDT WinChip 2.
The SpeedEasy CPU SETUP code is very difficult to change so the multiplier settings are still the same as for the WinChip C6 but they work the same way on the WinChip 2 and 2B. Only for the WC-2A, you have to use the translation table I put up earlier in this thread, when setting the multiplier.

@S0N1C,
I read your request about Tillamook support and I’ve started to look into that.
The BIOS detects and displays the Tillamook just fine but support for this CPU is completely missing in the SpeedEasy CPU SETUP, just as you reported. Instead, the BIOS sets the board as for a standard non-MMX Pentium with a single voltage rail with 3.4V! 🙁

The first step will be to change this to a dual voltage Pentium MMX setup. This shouldn’t be too difficult. But secondly, the default 2.8V setting for the MMX has to be lowered to 2.0V for the Tillamook only. This will be a challenge…
Note that the 2.0V Vcore and 3.3V Vi/o are the lowest possible settings on this board due hardware limitations.

@Sphere478,
You did the interposer for the Tillamook and other socket 7 CPUs, so could you help us with the multiplier settings on the Tillamook? Without hardware changes, this jumperless QDI BIOS can control the BF0/BF1 pins of the original Pentium MMX only. The Tillamook BF2 is therefore out of reach without an interposer.
Can you tell us which multipliers are possible on the Tillamook by using these original BF0/BF1 pins only?

To all,
Other bugfixes that I will add to the patch J.3 BIOS:
- A fix for the second 64GiB HDD limit bug. This will fix a hang when initiating drive detection via the IDE HDD DETECTION menu in the BIOS on a drive > 64GiB.
- An improved 32GiB HDD limit bugfix that allows drives > 128GiB to be attached, so at least 128GiB can be used from a larger drive (maximum 640GiB).
- A fix for the Win98 UDMA bug. This allows ATA66/100/133 drives to work correctly in UDMA mode 2 (33MB/sec) on the on-board IDE channels by enabling DMA mode in device manager. Without this fix, these faster drives would revert to PIO mode 4.

I will be back with an updated progress report soon. 😉
Jan

JustJulião wrote on 2024-02-27, 11:32:

Sphere478 wrote on 2024-02-27, 03:33:

Speaking of win chipage,

I got a gold top today. (In the box)

The package seems to have a place where ram might have been included. Any idea what sticks may have been included? Thinkin of adding them to the package.

Nice ! Is it a 2.33x100 like mine or a 3.5x66 ?

Not sure. Will have to check. Heatsink is glued though.

I assume multipliers are unlocked though? Were there several core revisions with different multipliers? This one seems to use bf2 amd

@Sphere478,
You did the interposer for the Tillamook and other socket 7 CPUs, so could you help us with the multiplier settings on the Tillamook? Without hardware changes, this jumperless QDI BIOS can control the BF0/BF1 pins of the original Pentium MMX only. The Tillamook BF2 is therefore out of reach without an interposer.
Can you tell us which multipliers are possible on the Tillamook by using these original BF0/BF1 pins only?

For 133 MHz to 233 MHz the setting should be the norm for pentium MMX in regards to tillamook to set 4X you simply Pull high Intel, BF2 pin if I am recalling correctly. If I recall correctly to access the other settings, you actually have to pull it low if a pull up resistor is present.

If memory serves most combinations, though, possibly not all of BF1/2 while intel bf2 is pulled high will result in 4x remaining set.

I would have to verify this, as it is from memory I will tag the tillamook thread and see if someone can verify post haste.

Edit: from datasheet

If a pull up is permanently added to Intel BF2, the motherboard will probably function just fine with all other CPUs, though, cyrix, would have a function pulled high. It’s a CPU sleep/energy conservation mode if I recall. unclear what the effect of that would be. I believe tillamook would be stuck at 4X though, unless a pulldown jumper was added.