Windows sucks as a router, always did and probably always will. That being said I think it should "just work" if the Win98 TCP stack is set to use DHCP. Did you check if it's getting IP assigned at all?

Deunan wrote on 2024-02-23, 00:14:

Windows sucks as a router, always did and probably always will. That being said I think it should "just work" if the Win98 TCP stack is set to use DHCP. Did you check if it's getting IP assigned at all?

Checking ipconfig on Win98, it does assign an address and subnet mask, but not a default gateway. Where would I set the TCP stack to use DHCP (or at least check if it's set or not)?

WFWG thru XP it always seems like you can have everything set right first go and it doesn't start working until you've rebooted everything three times.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-02-23, 00:22:

Checking ipconfig on Win98, it does assign an address and subnet mask, but not a default gateway. Where would I set the TCP stack to use DHCP (or at least check if it's set or not)?

IIRC you need to double-click on the TCP/IP protocol component in Network details window. If the IP you are seeing is of the 169.something type then I'd guess it was not assigned. Your typical Windows will create a 192.168.0.x VLAN for the sharing and usually .1 is the gateway. If the DHCP seems to work fine but gateway is still unassigned see if you can enter it manually - that might just be the stupidity of the Win9x TCP stack to only apply DHCP to IP and mask, and nothing else (like gateway or DNS servers). More like BOOTP rather than DHCP.

In Win98
My Computer > Control Panel > Network

Double click the Network adapter in the list > Bindings > Make sure TCP/IP is in the list.
Click ok to close the window.

Double click TCP/IP that either relates to your network adapter or if it is the only adapter and dial up isnt installed then there will be only one TCP/IP entry on the list and it is bound to the network adapter
IP Address tab
In the new window you can either obtain an IP address or by clicking the radio button chose your IP address.
Gateway tab
You can chose the IP address of the gateway here.
If you are using ICS then this will be the IP address of the network adapter on the Windows 11 PC that is being used.

I assume you want to use ICS rather than bridged networking to keep your Windows 98 PC one node away from the internet?

What kind of wireless hardware do you have?

Rather than mess around with this, you could use an old router as wireless client bridge, connecting to the WiFi network and allowing onward connectivity via Ethernet. This is OS independent and indeed, does not require the modern system even to be on.

ElectroSoldier wrote on 2024-02-23, 17:26:

In Win98 My Computer > Control Panel > Network […]
Show full quote

In Win98
My Computer > Control Panel > Network

Double click the Network adapter in the list > Bindings > Make sure TCP/IP is in the list.
Click ok to close the window.

Double click TCP/IP that either relates to your network adapter or if it is the only adapter and dial up isnt installed then there will be only one TCP/IP entry on the list and it is bound to the network adapter
IP Address tab
In the new window you can either obtain an IP address or by clicking the radio button chose your IP address.
Gateway tab
You can chose the IP address of the gateway here.
If you are using ICS then this will be the IP address of the network adapter on the Windows 11 PC that is being used.

I assume you want to use ICS rather than bridged networking to keep your Windows 98 PC one node away from the internet?

I just want to connect my Win98 to the internet via Ethernet cable through my wifi-connected main PC. If bridged networking will let me do that too, then do let me know.

But anyway, so the problem I keep running into is when I'm trying to re-install ICS on Win98, it takes me to the ICS wizard, which then takes me to the regular internet connection wizard, in which I select the LAN option, then it says it can't detect the network, I select the Advanced Options button where I can choose the device to connect to the internet and my home network. I'm able to select my NIC for the home network, but nothing shows up at all under the "Connect to the Internet using:" dropdown. I don't know if this is a driver-related issue or not, but I don't think it is?

Am I missing something here?

You are using a crossover cable right?

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-02-23, 18:41:

You are using a crossover cable right?

I'm just using a regular ethernet cable. Do I specifically need a crossover cable?

dionb wrote on 2024-02-23, 18:26:

What kind of wireless hardware do you have?

Rather than mess around with this, you could use an old router as wireless client bridge, connecting to the WiFi network and allowing onward connectivity via Ethernet. This is OS independent and indeed, does not require the modern system even to be on.

Let me elaborate on the situation: My computers are set up in my room. The router is hooked up all the way downstairs, in my dad's office. I know he's not gonna let me run an ethernet cable across the house for this, so my options are limited.

I don't know if we have any old routers. I think I can sort of see what you're getting at, but I'm honestly running out of places to plug stuff into and space to put things. I can probably ask about if we still have it, but I don't know.

Worst case scenario, if this ICS thing doesn't work, I might just buy a powerline adapter and try my luck with that.

you shouldn't need to mess with ICS on win98, if the win11 pc is doing the Internet Connection Sharing.
you just need to make sure that your win98 pc can talk to your win11 pc over the network cable.
Verify on both pc's that the ethernet adapter shows a connection and that you can ping from w98 to w11 and vice versa.

Then somehow get ICS working on W11 with the LAN being the ethernet and wan being the wifi.

weedeewee wrote on 2024-02-23, 19:10:

you shouldn't need to mess with ICS on win98, if the win11 pc is doing the Internet Connection Sharing. you just need to make su […]
Show full quote

you shouldn't need to mess with ICS on win98, if the win11 pc is doing the Internet Connection Sharing.
you just need to make sure that your win98 pc can talk to your win11 pc over the network cable.
Verify on both pc's that the ethernet adapter shows a connection and that you can ping from w98 to w11 and vice versa.

Then somehow get ICS working on W11 with the LAN being the ethernet and wan being the wifi.

Something I'm not too clear on is whether or not I should be enabling the sharing for the Ethernet connection between the two PCs or the Wifi adapter. I've tried enabling it for the ethernet connection but for some reason it disables my main PC's wifi connection.

I have no idea at the moment how ICS works in windows these days. Maybe you can help by telling us exactly where to look.

Seems pretty simple according to this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r824PZi7CI
on your win11 pc go to
Control Panel\Network and Internet\Network Connections
Wifi Adapter\Properties\Sharing\Allow other network users to connect through this computers internet connection

windowskey+R
services.msc
look for "internet connection sharing" make sure it's running.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-02-23, 18:55:

BitWrangler wrote on 2024-02-23, 18:41:

You are using a crossover cable right?

I'm just using a regular ethernet cable. Do I specifically need a crossover cable?

To direct wire two PCs, network card to network card, you need a crossover cable. If you go PC to switch/hub to PC you just need regular cables and a switch or hub (or old router just using the ethernet side as switch.)

Some equipment has autosense on the port, to tell which kind of cable is in use and do the cross automatically if required, however, I'd only trust that when all equipment is from same maker. Most routers made in the last decade seem to have it for daisychaining routers though. Otherwise WAN to WAN you need a crossover.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-02-23, 18:56:

[...]

Let me elaborate on the situation: My computers are set up in my room. The router is hooked up all the way downstairs, in my dad's office. I know he's not gonna let me run an ethernet cable across the house for this, so my options are limited.

As one of those dads, I understand 😉

I don't know if we have any old routers. I think I can sort of see what you're getting at, but I'm honestly running out of places to plug stuff into and space to put things. I can probably ask about if we still have it, but I don't know.

I thing you see correctly. The old router sits on top of the Wi98 PC, or somewhere convenient within range of a short network cable. Not all routers can do this (in particular, things supplied by internet providers tend not to), but a lot can. It's an option in any event.

Worst case scenario, if this ICS thing doesn't work, I might just buy a powerline adapter and try my luck with that.

That's a whole different kettle of fish (and one I could elaborate on far beyond the scope of this topic, I used to be responsible for managing a few hundred thousand of those things). TLDR: YMMV. A lot depends on your home's electricity network and the devices on it. The former differs - a lot - per country and on the age of your house (with the situation in NL in houses built prior to 1997 taking my vote for 'worst-case scenario' ), the latter is a crapshoot because almost any device could cause interference and it's very difficult to make a-priori guesses how that will influence stability and/or performance.

The one factor you might know/be able to find out that is very relevant to both chance of getting a good connection and on good performance if you have one, is whether or not both power outlets are earthed/grounded. If they are (i.e. you can plug things in with three pins: live, neutral and earth/ground), chances are very good. To make use of that you need to choose adapters with MIMO support (i.e. they also send data over earth/ground+neutral as well as over live+neutral), a task made more difficult by massive obfuscation of specs by chipset and adapter vendors. "1200Mbps" or "2000Mbps" should however usually give you MIMO (unless the adapters support the latest G.hn wave 2 spec in which case you need "2400Mbps"). Just don't expect to get those speeds in actual throughput. On average, 70k devices with "1200Mbps" spec actually reached about 55Mbps, although over 110Mbps on average with earthed connections.

If you can get something old and cheap to try out, it's possible to pretty accurately predict how newer, better kits might work.

I'd sooner network over coax than power but as stated by diond above wireless bridge is the solution if you don't want to run an Ethernet cable. Then you can NAT and firewall it at the router instead of having to rely on a windows machine as a router and windows firewall which is not great.

You can get decent speeds using powerline ethernet if you make sure you do not pass through the breakers and also do not use any distribution plugs that have filters built in.

and if you have tv cable distribution in your house and in your room, there exist adapters that allow you to get up to gigabit speeds over that coax. 10Gbit adapters also exist.

I've got 2 10Mbit powerline ethernet adapters. Those things give you the feeling of nostalgia and euforia if you're lucky enough to actually get 1Megabit/s throughput, though most of the time it's closer to old modem speeds and isdn lines.

dionb wrote on 2024-02-23, 20:40:

That's a whole different kettle of fish (and one I could elaborate on far beyond the scope of this topic, I used to be responsib […]
Show full quote

OpenRift wrote on 2024-02-23, 18:56:

Worst case scenario, if this ICS thing doesn't work, I might just buy a powerline adapter and try my luck with that.

That's a whole different kettle of fish (and one I could elaborate on far beyond the scope of this topic, I used to be responsible for managing a few hundred thousand of those things). TLDR: YMMV. A lot depends on your home's electricity network and the devices on it. The former differs - a lot - per country and on the age of your house (with the situation in NL in houses built prior to 1997 taking my vote for 'worst-case scenario' ), the latter is a crapshoot because almost any device could cause interference and it's very difficult to make a-priori guesses how that will influence stability and/or performance.

The one factor you might know/be able to find out that is very relevant to both chance of getting a good connection and on good performance if you have one, is whether or not both power outlets are earthed/grounded. If they are (i.e. you can plug things in with three pins: live, neutral and earth/ground), chances are very good. To make use of that you need to choose adapters with MIMO support (i.e. they also send data over earth/ground+neutral as well as over live+neutral), a task made more difficult by massive obfuscation of specs by chipset and adapter vendors. "1200Mbps" or "2000Mbps" should however usually give you MIMO (unless the adapters support the latest G.hn wave 2 spec in which case you need "2400Mbps"). Just don't expect to get those speeds in actual throughput. On average, 70k devices with "1200Mbps" spec actually reached about 55Mbps, although over 110Mbps on average with earthed connections.

If you can get something old and cheap to try out, it's possible to pretty accurately predict how newer, better kits might work.

I have used a powerline adapter in the past, and it was usable, but it wasn't great for a modern PC (50mbps download, can't remember the upload). For a Pentium III system, I would imagine it's probably good enough for what I wanna use it for (multiplayer, downloading small patches/mods, etc.). I just can't remember if I sold the thing or not. I checked the basement earlier, and it's not down there, I'll check my dad's office one more time in case it's in there and ask him about it, but I don't think we have it. I think our house was built in the 80s and we're East Coast US, if that's any indicator.

OpenRift wrote on 2024-02-23, 21:55:

[...]

I have used a powerline adapter in the past, and it was usable, but it wasn't great for a modern PC (50mbps download, can't remember the upload). For a Pentium III system, I would imagine it's probably good enough for what I wanna use it for (multiplayer, downloading small patches/mods, etc.). I just can't remember if I sold the thing or not. I checked the basement earlier, and it's not down there, I'll check my dad's office one more time in case it's in there and ask him about it, but I don't think we have it. I think our house was built in the 80s and we're East Coast US, if that's any indicator.

Perfect, that should do the trick. I did exactly the same when my retro-cave was in a room without Ethernet (or an easy way to get there). In my case it was a more-or-less stable 75Mbps. Not good for a Teams meeting (only 5Mbps, but any hiccups in the connection are immediately visible), nor for big downloads, but to get drivers onto vintage stuff or find manuals for them it was more than sufficient.

As for US, for most thing wiring standards are (in international perspective) pretty awful, but the thicker wires needed due to low mains voltage actually help with powerline, although the scarcity of grounded outlets does not. Still, that's all statistics. If you know you could get a reliable 50Mbps, that should be good enough, just do whatever you did before - if you can find the stuff that is.