VOGONS


First post, by songoffall

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Today I disassembled my Samsung SyncMaster 753DFX CRT because of washed out picture and horizontal ghosting. One of the power caps was definitely dead:

InMcZUu.jpg

When reassembling it, for the life of me, I can't remember where to connect this unique ground wire:

amh1Xgp.jpg

74OAWcl.jpg

Can anyone give a hint?

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Reply 1 of 11, by BitWrangler

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There's probably a peg/pin on the main board somewhere. At least that's a usual thing.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 2 of 11, by darry

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songoffall wrote on 2024-02-24, 17:36:
Today I disassembled my Samsung SyncMaster 753DFX CRT because of washed out picture and horizontal ghosting. One of the power ca […]
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Today I disassembled my Samsung SyncMaster 753DFX CRT because of washed out picture and horizontal ghosting. One of the power caps was definitely dead:

InMcZUu.jpg

When reassembling it, for the life of me, I can't remember where to connect this unique ground wire:

amh1Xgp.jpg

74OAWcl.jpg

Can anyone give a hint?

Here is a link to the service manual. Maybe it will help.

https://www.manualslib.com/manual/683107/Samsung-753dfx.html

Reply 3 of 11, by songoffall

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Thanks everyone. I had the manual, but it was of no help.

Turns out it was simpler than expected, removed the small breakout PCB that goes on the tube, the connector was there, just not visible with the PCB mounted.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
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Reply 4 of 11, by songoffall

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Sadly, while I did find and replace a blown out electrolytic cap, the problem with horizontal ghosting wasn't resolved. Will keep trying.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
Asus A7N8X-VM400/AMD Athlon XP 2ooo+/512Mb DDR DRAM/GeForce 4 MX440/Creative Audigy 2
Asus P5Q Pro/Core2 Quad Q9400/2Gb DDR2/GeForce 8800GT/Creative X-Fi

Reply 7 of 11, by songoffall

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darry wrote on 2024-02-25, 00:29:

Can you share a photo of the ghosting ?

Sure, friend.

SFrPIjl.jpg

9xhfkly.jpg

It also results in an overall darker image in certain games, like Quake 1 & 2, Morrowind, VTM: Redemption, especially during the day. Yes, I remember CRTs having always been dim under sunlight, but my room is in the shadow, so it's projector-levels of dim.

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Reply 8 of 11, by momaka

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I've also ran into this before with two of the CRT monitors in my collection. One is a rather old Sony Trinitron from 1995 with likely high number of power-on hours. The other is a newer (2001) 15" HP with A TON of power-on hours (lots of burn-in on the screen and the tube takes forever to display a visible image.) Still haven't been able to exactly pinpoint the cause for this particular issue (I've repaired a number of CRTs before, but I'm not an expert in the area.) That said, I think the issue is most likely to be caused by either bad electrolytic capacitors, tired tube, failing/marginal RBG amp IC/transistors, low G2, or a combination of the these.

If you have the time and are willing, I would suggest to replace all of the electrolytic capacitors on the neck/video board first (the circuit board that attaches to the back of the tube.) Often times, the heat from the tube and the RBG amplifier(s) will dry out / cook those small caps. They will look fine / not bulged to the naked eye, so the only way to know if they are failed is to check them with an ESR meter (the cheap $10-15 component testers found online are adequate for this task.) Or just replace them altogether. Also try increasing the G2 (screen) voltage a little. If nothing else, this should at least aid with making the dark image a little lighter.

If new caps and G2 adjustment don't help, it really might be the RGB amp and/or tube that are just getting tired.

*EDIT*
I just remembered... this being a Samsung CRT monitor, you likely might not have a G2 (screen) adjustment trimpot on the flyback transformer, only two focus knobs. To adjust G2, you need SoftJIG software, a computer with a serial port, and a serial to TTL interface (usually RS232 chip-based) to connect to the monitor. Sony CRTs are similar, except instead of SoftJIG, the software is WinDAS. I've never attempted to do either, but have read about it extensively, since I have a 955DF and several Sony CRTs that are a bit too much on the bright side (too much G2). With the Sony's, it's also possible to adjust G2 via tracing the resistor feedback and messing with that. Not sure about the Samsungs, as I haven't looked to deep into mine, but I imagine it's the same. Using the software would be preferable... but I'm more of a hardware guy and always try to avoid dealing with software / programming / firmware, hence why I haven't attempted this yet.

Reply 9 of 11, by songoffall

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momaka wrote on 2024-02-29, 12:56:
I've also ran into this before with two of the CRT monitors in my collection. One is a rather old Sony Trinitron from 1995 with […]
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I've also ran into this before with two of the CRT monitors in my collection. One is a rather old Sony Trinitron from 1995 with likely high number of power-on hours. The other is a newer (2001) 15" HP with A TON of power-on hours (lots of burn-in on the screen and the tube takes forever to display a visible image.) Still haven't been able to exactly pinpoint the cause for this particular issue (I've repaired a number of CRTs before, but I'm not an expert in the area.) That said, I think the issue is most likely to be caused by either bad electrolytic capacitors, tired tube, failing/marginal RBG amp IC/transistors, low G2, or a combination of the these.

If you have the time and are willing, I would suggest to replace all of the electrolytic capacitors on the neck/video board first (the circuit board that attaches to the back of the tube.) Often times, the heat from the tube and the RBG amplifier(s) will dry out / cook those small caps. They will look fine / not bulged to the naked eye, so the only way to know if they are failed is to check them with an ESR meter (the cheap $10-15 component testers found online are adequate for this task.) Or just replace them altogether. Also try increasing the G2 (screen) voltage a little. If nothing else, this should at least aid with making the dark image a little lighter.

If new caps and G2 adjustment don't help, it really might be the RGB amp and/or tube that are just getting tired.

*EDIT*
I just remembered... this being a Samsung CRT monitor, you likely might not have a G2 (screen) adjustment trimpot on the flyback transformer, only two focus knobs. To adjust G2, you need SoftJIG software, a computer with a serial port, and a serial to TTL interface (usually RS232 chip-based) to connect to the monitor. Sony CRTs are similar, except instead of SoftJIG, the software is WinDAS. I've never attempted to do either, but have read about it extensively, since I have a 955DF and several Sony CRTs that are a bit too much on the bright side (too much G2). With the Sony's, it's also possible to adjust G2 via tracing the resistor feedback and messing with that. Not sure about the Samsungs, as I haven't looked to deep into mine, but I imagine it's the same. Using the software would be preferable... but I'm more of a hardware guy and always try to avoid dealing with software / programming / firmware, hence why I haven't attempted this yet.

Thanks for the advise. You are right, the CRT does not have a G2 pot.

At this point in time, I want to go through a checklist. First reason why this might be happening is the ray not being able to recover fast enough after bright and dark pixels. That points to the high voltage power capacitors. I replaced the filtering cap which was definitely dead - bulging cap, melted bottom, readings at about 25% of its spec - but there are many more caps I should go through before ruling the power board out.

Next is the neck.

I'm pretty sure the tube itself is fine. There is no burn-in, the focus and the speed are fine.

Estimated lifespan of electrolytic caps is 10 years, and this monitor has been working without recapping for 25+ years I think. A complete recap might be in order here. I am unwilling to let the CRT go in any scenario, because there's a limited number of them left and every scrapped CRT is one less. Especially a pretty decent CRT like this one. I mean, it's no Trinitron, but it's quite good.

Compaq Deskpro 2000/P2 300MHz/384Mb SDRAM/ESS ES1868F/Aureal Vortex 2
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Reply 10 of 11, by momaka

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songoffall wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:30:

At this point in time, I want to go through a checklist. First reason why this might be happening is the ray not being able to recover fast enough after bright and dark pixels. That points to the high voltage power capacitors.

That's what I thought about the 15" HP, but the high voltage caps on B+ were still relatively OK... though I didn't have time to check them for excessive leakage current, so still debating on that one with myself.

songoffall wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:30:

I replaced the filtering cap which was definitely dead - bulging cap, melted bottom, readings at about 25% of its spec - but there are many more caps I should go through before ruling the power board out.

Ooof, that pretty bad. By the looks of it, that's the main filter cap at the input of the PSU. I'm surprised it failed, as those usually last the lifetime of the tube/PSU - even from not-so-great brands like Samyoung.

songoffall wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:30:

Estimated lifespan of electrolytic caps is 10 years, and this monitor has been working without recapping for 25+ years I think. A complete recap might be in order here.

Yes, a recap is likely in order, though I wouldn't say because the capacitors are over 10 years old.

In my experience in the field, capacitor lifetime can vary A LOT.
Obviously inferior brands don't usually last anywhere as long as the known-good Japanese brands do. But even then, if someone asks me how long any capacitor will last, I always say "it depends".
And it depends on the following:
- temperature: the higher the temperature where the cap is used or was stored will work to reduce its life span. Generally, for every 10C drop in temperature, the life span doubles.
- aqueous vs. non-aqueous chemistry: while non-aqueous chemistry doesn't offer as low-ESR as aqueous chemistry (and as such is more likely to run hotter in higher-frequency circuits, thus resulting in reducing its life span) , it's also usually more stable long-term. So that's part of the reason why general purpose 85C and 105C capacitors rated for 2000 hours (what's commonly found in CRT TVs and monitors) still tend to last for so many years. Of course, the ones from less-than-great brands like Samyoung won't last as long as equivalent Japanese offerings (such as Nichicon VZ/VR, Rubycon YK/PX, Panasonic M/NHG, and United Chemicon SMG/KMG.) In that regard, this is where I really appreciate Sony CRTs - they almost exclusively use Japanese capacitors.
- age / manufacturing technology: <-- this one is a bit odd. I find that some very old but good quality caps from the 70's and 80's that are made with thicker foil (they look huge compared to modern caps) may last for quite a while. Case in point, I just cracked open my dad's Sony stereo amplifier that's made in the late 70's because it would take over 30 minutes to turn On when cold. I suspected I'd find bad caps, but so far none. Not only that, but the original 40 Y.O. Nichicon and Nippon ChemiCon caps are reading quite well in terms of ESR and capacitance. Only a few are starting to linger near the +20% mark on capacitance. However, when I checked them for leakage current (high leakage current is often why a cap will read high capacitance on a cap meter), they were 100% in spec. So it goes to show that not all old caps need replacing.
-brand: obscure "no-name" brands always seem to fail sooner than others. Then there's the less-than-great brands like Samyoung, SamWha, Teapo, OST, Jamicon, L-tec... and countless others... that tend to do OK for the useful lifetime of the device, with some exceptions here and there. And then there's the Japanese brands (mentioned above) that almost always will outlast the useful lifetime of the device, and then some more.

songoffall wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:30:

I am unwilling to let the CRT go in any scenario, because there's a limited number of them left and every scrapped CRT is one less. Especially a pretty decent CRT like this one. I mean, it's no Trinitron, but it's quite good.

Totally understandable, and I feel the same way too when it comes to CRTs. Trinitron or not, I like to save them all. Actually, I myself prefer most shadow mask monitors over Trinitrons, especially these late Samsungs, as they have pretty decent picture and geometry. I'm still kicking myself in the back for not picking up that 2nd Samsung 955DF when I had the chance many years back (lady in an office was giving 2 of them away, but I only picked up one because I didn't want to deal with all of the mocking from friends and family at the time, telling me that collecting CRTs is stupid.) My favorite by far are Hitachi and NEC -tube monitors. As for Trinitron, I only like the older ones made before 99-2000 (ones with the horizontally non-flat tubes.) In terms of color balance, the last generation(s) of Trinitron leaves a lot to be desired, IMO, especially the larger 21" CRTs.

Reply 11 of 11, by songoffall

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You're right, cap lifetime can vary a lot, but if the main filter cap is dead, and that's usually the last one to go, smaller caps can't be relied on. I've replaced it with a proper Rubycon.

As for Trinitrons, the only ones I've seen were from the 90s, mostly other brands like IBM and Benq using Trinitron tubes, and even a Mitsubishi Diamondtron, and let's just say there was magic in them.

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