If its a PCIe Version 1.0 board then many PCIe 3.0 GPUs will not run in it, its not well known but PCIe 1.0 has incompatibilities with 2.0 and 3.0 GPUs. if its a 2.0 board then could just be chipset issues and the GPU is trying to use chipset functions that dont exist or are not implemented as it expects.

Just fully read the part where you state its a 1.0 board, that will be the problem, you could try a 3.0 GPU that has a power connector but I suspect it will still be expecting 2.0/3.0 power delivery via the slot. Best option is to move to an older GPU that can handle PCIe 1.0, there were a good number of 2.0 cards that could handle 1.0 just fine.

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-02-29, 11:42:

If its a PCIe Version 1.0 board then many PCIe 3.0 GPUs will not run in it, its not well known but PCIe 1.0 has incompatibilities with 2.0 and 3.0 GPUs. if its a 2.0 board then could just be chipset issues and the GPU is trying to use chipset functions that dont exist or are not implemented as it expects.

Just fully read the part where you state its a 1.0 board, that will be the problem, you could try a 3.0 GPU that has a power connector but I suspect it will still be expecting 2.0/3.0 power delivery via the slot. Best option is to move to an older GPU that can handle PCIe 1.0, there were a good number of 2.0 cards that could handle 1.0 just fine.

Nice! Yes, I'm fairly certain the PCI-e on that motherboard is 1.0. Good to know that is more likely to be the problem than any RAM or power restrictions. Still, if you take a look here, you'll see that people are benchmarking setups with fairly weak GPUs:

https://www.userbenchmark.com/System/Biostar- … M900-M7-FE/2298

These cards tend to be of the Ge-Force 400 series. I'm wondering why so weak though - could it be that these benchmarks were made during the appropriate period by actual users of the time, or would it just be that CPUs would bottleneck at anything stronger than these cards? I've been thinking of something stronger, like maybe even GTX 480, since I do have 6-pin capabilities and the PSU should handle it (500 W BanditPower).

The CPU is Core2Duo E6700. Would you be able to suggest the strongest/optimal choice for the GPU that would run with no issues? VGA output is mandatory.

Best bet is to do a little googling and see what GPUs people were using around that time, I tend to run GTX 200 series GPUs and the ATI HD4000 series GPUs with Core 2 the E6700 is a later model Core 2 CPU so GTX 200/HD 4000 isn't out of the question. But GTX 480 should also work, its PCIe 2.0 so shouldn't have as many issues with 1.0 as PCIe 3.0 GPUs do, as for VGA out put just grab a DVI to VGA adapter and issue solved.

If you want a PCIe 1.0 GPU to test things out with then grab a cheap as chips 8400 GT which is a PCIe 1.0 compliant GPU, but most early PCIe 2.0 GPUs shouldn't have show stopping issues either.

If you want to know the PCIe 1.0 > 2.0 cross over GPUs that would be the Geforce 8/9 series and Radeon 3000 series.

My personal choice is a GTX 285 or a HD4890, both are very strong GPUs for that period and would happily stress that E6700 and allow it to stretch its legs so to speak.

I do have to say I try to avoid PCIe 1.0 boards, I have never had a great experience with them, PCIe 2.1 was when backwards compatibility got broken due to the increased power 2.1 provides via the slot.

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:19:

Best bet is to do a little googling and see what GPUs people were using around that time, I tend to run GTX 200 series GPUs and […]
Show full quote

Best bet is to do a little googling and see what GPUs people were using around that time, I tend to run GTX 200 series GPUs and the ATI HD4000 series GPUs with Core 2 the E6700 is a later model Core 2 CPU so GTX 200/HD 4000 isn't out of the question. But GTX 480 should also work, its PCIe 2.0 so shouldn't have as many issues with 1.0 as PCIe 3.0 GPUs do, as for VGA out put just grab a DVI to VGA adapter and issue solved.

If you want a PCIe 1.0 GPU to test things out with then grab a cheap as chips 8400 GT which is a PCIe 1.0 compliant GPU, but most early PCIe 2.0 GPUs shouldn't have show stopping issues either.

If you want to know the PCIe 1.0 > 2.0 cross over GPUs that would be the Geforce 8/9 series and Radeon 3000 series.

My personal choice is a GTX 285 or a HD4890, both are very strong GPUs for that period and would happily stress that E6700 and allow it to stretch its legs so to speak.

I do have to say I try to avoid PCIe 1.0 boards, I have never had a great experience with them, PCIe 2.1 was when backwards compatibility got broken due to the increased power 2.1 provides via the slot.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I chose that mobo specifically because it is one of the very few that have dual floppy support (including 5,25''), both IDE and SATA, and PCI-E alongside regular PCI as well. I want to build a PC that'll be a hub to sume weird/obscure storage media drives, such as ZIP and MO. So these are the restrictions I have to work around.

But yeah, I've seen someone use a GTX 275 with this mobo, so 285 might be a good bet. Too bad I'd have to buy a card to test it, not sure if I want to make that leap of faith and go for a GTX 480, especially since it sounds like overkill for that CPU.

Still, I've seen people on Quora recommend even cards like GT 1030 or GTX 1050Ti for PCI-e 1.0, because they say PCI-e is fully fully backwards and forwards compatible. Turns out not necessarily, huh

Spiffles wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:42:

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I chose that mobo specifically because it is one of the very few that have dual floppy support […]
Show full quote

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:19:

Best bet is to do a little googling and see what GPUs people were using around that time, I tend to run GTX 200 series GPUs and […]
Show full quote

Best bet is to do a little googling and see what GPUs people were using around that time, I tend to run GTX 200 series GPUs and the ATI HD4000 series GPUs with Core 2 the E6700 is a later model Core 2 CPU so GTX 200/HD 4000 isn't out of the question. But GTX 480 should also work, its PCIe 2.0 so shouldn't have as many issues with 1.0 as PCIe 3.0 GPUs do, as for VGA out put just grab a DVI to VGA adapter and issue solved.

If you want a PCIe 1.0 GPU to test things out with then grab a cheap as chips 8400 GT which is a PCIe 1.0 compliant GPU, but most early PCIe 2.0 GPUs shouldn't have show stopping issues either.

If you want to know the PCIe 1.0 > 2.0 cross over GPUs that would be the Geforce 8/9 series and Radeon 3000 series.

My personal choice is a GTX 285 or a HD4890, both are very strong GPUs for that period and would happily stress that E6700 and allow it to stretch its legs so to speak.

I do have to say I try to avoid PCIe 1.0 boards, I have never had a great experience with them, PCIe 2.1 was when backwards compatibility got broken due to the increased power 2.1 provides via the slot.

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. I chose that mobo specifically because it is one of the very few that have dual floppy support (including 5,25''), both IDE and SATA, and PCI-E alongside regular PCI as well. I want to build a PC that'll be a hub to sume weird/obscure storage media drives, such as ZIP and MO. So these are the restrictions I have to work around.

But yeah, I've seen someone use a GTX 275 with this mobo, so 285 might be a good bet. Too bad I'd have to buy a card to test it, not sure if I want to make that leap of faith and go for a GTX 480, especially since it sounds like overkill for that CPU.

Still, I've seen people on Quora recommend even cards like GT 1030 or GTX 1050Ti for PCI-e 1.0, because they say PCI-e is fully fully backwards and forwards compatible. Turns out not necessarily, huh

Honestly depends on the 3.0 card, and also on the motherboard, this sound arse backwards but early adoption of PCIe forced some vendors to do weird shit and not all boards followed the standard to the letter. The 1030 is only a 30watt GPU so it will very likely work, the 750ti is a 60watt GPU and the 1050ti is 75 watts so neither is likely to work in a PCIe 1.0 board unless they have a power connector and are happy with split power delivery. (Both do have models with the extra power connector)

As for Quora .. the less said about that place the better, Quora is like Reddit take anything you read there with a mountain of salt. Ive seen people there claim the earth is flat, aliens built the pyramids and that a certain orange man is the next messiah.

-Just remember that going to the GTX 1000 series means you wont have XP support if you want that, there are no drivers for Pascall based GPUs under XP, any modded ones you see will not work.

Yeah, I know Quora isn't the best page to put it politely 🤣, that's why I'm asking here. GT 1030 can be purchased at very cheap prices, but what worries me is that it's PCI-e x4. I only have a single x16 slot and a single x1 one. Not sure if problems won't pop up because of that, I'd probably feel more comfortable with a card that fills the entire x16 slot. Then again, the benchmark values for 1030 are pretty great compared to cards of that period, and its energy economy is very tempting. I might pick one up after all.

XP support is not necessary, running fully-fledged Windows 10 on that PC.

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:55:

-Just remember that going to the GTX 1000 series means you wont have XP support if you want that, there are no drivers for Pascall based GPUs under XP, any modded ones you see will not work.

A bigger problem would be the lack of a VGA output. I've had bad experiences converting HDMI to VGA (didn't work), so guess I'll try sticking with a card that has VGA output.

If (native) VGA output is mandatory, forget about anything GTX 1000 series and newer or Radeon RX series and newer - all of these dealt away with the RAMDAC from their GPU as far as I know.

And yes, I can confirm that the issue is likely due to the motherboard being PCI-E 1.0.
That said, I can also confirm that not all PCI-E 1.0 motherboards dislike PCI-E 3.0 cards. It's a bit of a hodge-podge what can work with what.

For the E6700, GTX200 series and mid-range GTX400 series, along with Radeon HD 4k and 5k series, should be adequate to reach the limits of that CPU in most games. If this is going to be a daily-driver or similar PC, maybe try to avoid the top-end cards from these series, as they tend to be rather power-hungry. HD4850 or 5770 would be a nice balance between power consumption and GPU power. When it comes to the HD4870 and 4890, these use almost 30-50% more power than 4850, but don't deliver an equivalent increase in FPS / GPU performance. And they tend to be unreliable IME, due to running too hot (though HD4850 with its stock OEM single-slot cooler isn't exactly better either.) Since you have only one PCI-E 6-pin connector and the PSU doesn't sound like it comes from an OEM I know, I would suggest to go with a more mid-range GPU from that era, like HD4670, 5670... or better yet, 7570 which will give similar results to the former too, but will run slightly cooler and is slightly more reliable IME. I think R5-250 has similar performance to these. From nVidia, GTS450 also ought to be enough (and GTX460 for sure, though that one requires 2x 6-pin power connectors.)

Trashbytes wrote on 2024-02-29, 13:55:

As for Quora .. the less said about that place the better, Quora is like Reddit take anything you read there with a mountain of salt.

+1
Add Fixya to the list when it comes to getting good technical advice on fixing stuff.

momaka wrote on 2024-02-29, 15:44:

If (native) VGA output is mandatory, forget about anything GTX 1000 series and newer or Radeon RX series and newer - all of thes […]
Show full quote

If (native) VGA output is mandatory, forget about anything GTX 1000 series and newer or Radeon RX series and newer - all of these dealt away with the RAMDAC from their GPU as far as I know.

And yes, I can confirm that the issue is likely due to the motherboard being PCI-E 1.0.
That said, I can also confirm that not all PCI-E 1.0 motherboards dislike PCI-E 3.0 cards. It's a bit of a hodge-podge what can work with what.

For the E6700, GTX200 series and mid-range GTX400 series, along with Radeon HD 4k and 5k series, should be adequate to reach the limits of that CPU in most games. If this is going to be a daily-driver or similar PC, maybe try to avoid the top-end cards from these series, as they tend to be rather power-hungry. HD4850 or 5770 would be a nice balance between power consumption and GPU power. When it comes to the HD4870 and 4890, these use almost 30-50% more power than 4850, but don't deliver an equivalent increase in FPS / GPU performance. And they tend to be unreliable IME, due to running too hot (though HD4850 with its stock OEM single-slot cooler isn't exactly better either.) Since you have only one PCI-E 6-pin connector and the PSU doesn't sound like it comes from an OEM I know, I would suggest to go with a more mid-range GPU from that era, like HD4670, 5670... or better yet, 7570 which will give similar results to the former too, but will run slightly cooler and is slightly more reliable IME. I think R5-250 has similar performance to these. From nVidia, GTS450 also ought to be enough (and GTX460 for sure, though that one requires 2x 6-pin power connectors.)

Thanks! I already picked up a GTX 460 which I found for a very good price of 15 dollars. A Palit variant with a native VGA output, which not all 460s happen to have. But if it works with my setup, I'll be very happy and that will be the end of that build's graphical woes.

Hey, so.. turns out my GTX 460 requires a 6-pin power cable, and my PSU only has 3, with nothing extra. The PC doesn't post with the card slotted in, but there is some extra weird behavior: no matter whether the 3-pin is plugged into the left half of the socket, the right half of the socket or nowhere at all - the GPU fan goes to max right away and keeps ramping up and down wildly, kinda reminding me of a car htat desperately wants to drive but can't, it's kind of a pulsating sound. Is it safe to assume this is just the GPU being underpowered? Because if there's more to it than that, I'm beginning to think my PCI-E slot might be broken or something. I'll try picking up a better PSU with a proper 6-pin GPU power connector, I can do that much at least

Probably those VIA chipsets expect a proper, uncrippled VGA BIOS. I had the same issues with my M2V (VIA K8T890 chipset).

From what I remember, video cards since Kepler (6xx) and Southern Islands (HD 7xxx) won't work on those boards, and that was the point when nVidia and AMD respectively started actively breaking VESA/VGA functionality, with each subsequent generation of video cards becoming even worse in that regard (more functions broken).

i'm having the same type of issue in this thread: is this nvidia gt 710 pci-e video card incompatible with the via p4m900 chipset?
i never did find a solution so i guess it's just the motherboard

stanwebber wrote on 2024-03-06, 15:38:

i'm having the same type of issue in this thread: is this nvidia gt 710 pci-e video card incompatible with the via p4m900 chipset?
i never did find a solution so i guess it's just the motherboard

GT710 is a Kepler so no.

Spiffles wrote on 2024-03-06, 14:17:

Hey, so.. turns out my GTX 460 requires a 6-pin power cable, and my PSU only has 3, with nothing extra. The PC doesn't post with the card slotted in, but there is some extra weird behavior: no matter whether the 3-pin is plugged into the left half of the socket, the right half of the socket or nowhere at all - the GPU fan goes to max right away and keeps ramping up and down wildly

???

Do you have both 6-pin connectors on the video card plugged in? If no, then the card won't start. Middle pin on 12V rail of both 6-pin connectors is usually used for signaling the video card that a 6-pin connector is plugged in. Without it, the GPU won't start and is held in RESET state.

Hey, don't say I didn't warn you above about the GTX 460 having 2x 6-pin PCI-E power connectors 😁 ... as does the HD4870/4890, 5830, 5850, and 5870.

You could get some of those MOLEX-->6-pin PCIE or SATA-->6-pin PCIE (or in one weird case, I had a SATA-->Molex adapter then going to a Molex-->PCIE, which is generally a terrible idea that I don't suggest to anyone... but in my case, I knew the PSU I was using was capable of providing the power, since I rebuilt it myself and know exactly what components it has inside.)

Spiffles wrote on 2024-03-06, 14:17:

I'll try picking up a better PSU with a proper 6-pin GPU power connector, I can do that much at least

Sounds like a better plan to me. 😀
Keep us posted how it goes.

momaka wrote on 2024-03-06, 16:08:

Hey, don't say I didn't warn you above about the GTX 460 having 2x 6-pin PCI-E power connectors 😁 ... as does the HD4870/4890, 5830, 5850, and 5870.

Yeah, turns out my cheap, shitty, supposedly 80 Bronze Bandit Power PSU only has a single 6-pin, which can be made into an 8-pin. I think it's a 500W, which is plenty for this build anyhow, but turns out this producer started including 2x6 (+2) connectors only in their 650W version and higher. I had no idea there were GPUs that used only a single 6-pin, can't put my finger on what era that could even have been.

So instead of buying another admittedly very cheap Bandit Power, I did the smart thing and ordered a 650W Be Quiet. That should at least guarantee I won't ever have to worry about power-related stuff.

Seriously though, I was looking for the cheapest possible components at the time, but I'm growing to like this PC and I think it deserves a decent PSU at least. I've heard a lot of people say that Bandit Powers are all just time bombs, quite literally. Mine hasn't failed me yet in any way, but it's missing this crucial connector.

Spiffles wrote on 2024-03-06, 16:40:

Yeah, turns out my cheap, shitty, supposedly 80 Bronze Bandit Power PSU only has a single 6-pin, which can be made into an 8-pin. I think it's a 500W, which is plenty for this build anyhow, but turns out this producer started including 2x6 (+2) connectors only in their 650W version and higher.

If that 80Plus cert. on the PSU is real, then it must not be a terrible PSU and should be able to provide its rated 500W.
So I suppose it's only a matter if that cert. is real or not. If it is, you could just splice another 6-pin of of the existing 6-pin. Not a great idea, I admit, but if the PSU is capable, it won't be an issue, provided the spliced cable is done correctly (preferably soldered.)

Spiffles wrote on 2024-03-06, 16:40:

I had no idea there were GPUs that used only a single 6-pin, can't put my finger on what era that could even have been.

Plenty of GPUs with a single 6-pin. GTX 1060 (and I think also 1050TI) is one of them. And of course, going back in time, almost every mid-range-y PSU from both nVidia and ATI/AMD used a single 6-pin (AMD moreso than nVidia.) Pretty much, if the TDP of the GPU is in the range of 80 Watts to 120 Watts, a single 6-pin is adequate. If TDP is higher, either 2x 6-pin or 1x 8-pin. Under 75W, no external power required on PCI-Express.

Spiffles wrote on 2024-03-06, 16:40:

I've heard a lot of people say that Bandit Powers are all just time bombs, quite literally. Mine hasn't failed me yet in any way, but it's missing this crucial connector.

Only one way to find out: open it and snap some photos to post here... provided it's not under warranty and/or you don't care about the warranty if it is.

momaka wrote on 2024-03-06, 16:56:

Only one way to find out: open it and snap some photos to post here... provided it's not under warranty and/or you don't care about the warranty if it is.

Well, I watched a youtube test. 15 minutes stress testing under full load of their 650W version led to it exploding. Only showing a Silentium PC tested in the same way afterwards made me appreciate the difference. So while even my 500W is under no risk of being fully stressed, I'll still be happy to install a proper PSU.

Ok, it posted nicely with an adequately powered GTX 460. Looks like I've got the graphics part well in hand 😁

Too bad the benchmarks are likely going to be crappy because this mobo only has DDR2. Oh well, no matter, still should be able to run games through 2010 or later, I think. thanks for all the help and suggestions in this thread!

Nice, great to hear you got it going. 😀

I think the CPU would be more of a limitation for latter-generation games. Up to 2010-2012 sounds about right. Anything up to (and including) Unreal 3 engine should be OK, like Mirror's Edge. ME (2) Catalyst would be a no-go, likely. GTA V should technically "run" too... just not very playable due to CPU. Source -era games should run beautifully on that setup, though.