Maybe Windows 10 and 11 are just bad at maths...

DerBaum wrote on 2023-09-12, 00:30:

Screenshot 2023-09-12 022817.png
Maybe Windows 10 and 11 are just bad at maths...

YES

thanks for reply, i was googling and looks is maybe? a bug in 1803+ builds

If your HDD is big, you dont notice, but with 32GB ..... 7GB lost is too much 😀 jaja

Thanks for your screenshot! im installing diferent win10 builds to check, but i will love to find a fix, because i already installed all my software jeje even visual studio 6, that was not easy to install!

Windows 8.1 i can confirm dont have this problem... in the worst case i will use 8.1 but still have hopes!

Try programs like TreeSize or WinDirStat (both with admin privileges) to see if there's some system files that are hidden from chkdsk and DiskGenius, for some reason.

As for it showing a lower size in linux or ghost, have you setup windows to clear pagefile.sys when shutting down?

As for the bug in 1803, it was apparently fixed in later versions.

Impossible to have a 8GB installation for windows 10, no way, and not possible to play with a 16GB partition.

Initial installation of Win 10 with drivers installed and updates is about 30 to 40GB, no else.

Your storage drive or partition is too small. You need 100GB minimum storage capacity.

Mine is about 80GB. All I have added is few programs, steam and firefox and chrome.

Upgrade your computer to 120GB or 250GB drive or preferably a SSD.

Cheers,

Hi!! i came here to say finally i solve the problem!

finally the problem was the reserved storage.Need to disable

First, disable in register

1[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ReserveManager]
2"MiscPolicyInfo"=dword:00000002
3"PassedPolicy"=dword:00000000
4"ShippedWithReserves"=dword:00000000

After this, reboot, nothing happen, then, with Dism++ go to optional features options, and uninstall the first not usefull thing, in my case, quick assist, and this force the OS to do some update... or whatever need to do.... and the "stolen" GB show up in explorer

And finally!!!!!! windows now tell me the truth!! jaja 7.5GB used, 21.5GB free, now everything is right

eddman wrote on 2023-09-12, 22:55:

As for the bug in 1803, it was apparently fixed in later versions.

Yes, it seems this bug was fixed in Windows 10 2004+ but my install is older and still have the bug, i was lucky to solve finally, i did not want to start again another windows install

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-09-13, 00:18:

Impossible to have a 8GB installation for windows 10, no way, and not possible to play with a 16GB partition.

??? my Win10 install is less than 5GB and with all software i use, office, visual studio, paint shop pro, firefox, mail, vudeo, audio player, etc etc is less than 8GB

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 01:13:

Hi!! i came here to say finally i solve the problem! […]
Show full quote

Hi!! i came here to say finally i solve the problem!

finally the problem was the reserved storage.Need to disable

First, disable in register

Copy code to clipboard

1[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ReserveManager]
2"MiscPolicyInfo"=dword:00000002
3"PassedPolicy"=dword:00000000
4"ShippedWithReserves"=dword:00000000

After this, reboot, nothing happen, then, with Dism++ go to optional features options, and uninstall the first not usefull thing, in my case, quick assist, and this force the OS to do some update... or whatever need to do.... and the "stolen" GB show up in explorer

4.jpg

And finally!!!!!! windows now tell me the truth!! jaja 7.5GB used, 21.5GB free, now everything is right

5.jpg

eddman wrote on 2023-09-12, 22:55:

As for the bug in 1803, it was apparently fixed in later versions.

Yes, it seems this bug was fixed in Windows 10 2004+ but my install is older and still have the bug, i was lucky to solve finally, i did not want to start again another windows install

Just searched online... It seems M$ made a clever idea to reserve a portion of system space (7-8GB) to make sure updates will not fail due to insufficient disk space especially when your system partition is very cramped.

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 01:13:

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-09-13, 00:18:

Impossible to have a 8GB installation for windows 10, no way, and not possible to play with a 16GB partition.

? what are you talking about ??? my Win10 install is less than 5GB and with all software i use, office, visual studio, paint shop pro, firefox, mail, etc is less than 8GB

By default Windows creates a page file that's 100% the size of your RAM and hibernate data files about 50-100% the size (adjustable). If you have like only 2GB of RAM then it's entirely possible to have an install that's less than 5GB out-of-box. Shrinking page file and disabling hibernation (which in turn disables fast startup as it relies on that) will also reduce the overall size of an install.

As such, during Windows install, the RAM your system has will be taken into consideration when it tries to calculate how much space is required and how much is recommended. So if you have, say, like 64GB of RAM you would need to have around 100GB free space at minimum to avoid Windows Setup giving you a warning about space recommendation. I think unless your SSD is too small to hold the minimum size of hibernation data, you're not really barred from installing there just that Windows will have to adjust the final page file size accordingly to avoid leaving you with too low free space upon initial boot, but with that much RAM you'll definitely want to further shrink the page file to just the size necessary for Windows features that require it.

LSS10999 wrote on 2023-09-13, 02:01:

Just searched online... It seems M$ made a clever idea to reserve a portion of system space (7-8GB) to make sure updates will no […]
Show full quote

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 01:13:

Hi!! i came here to say finally i solve the problem! […]
Show full quote

Hi!! i came here to say finally i solve the problem!

finally the problem was the reserved storage.Need to disable

First, disable in register

Copy code to clipboard

1[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\ReserveManager]
2"MiscPolicyInfo"=dword:00000002
3"PassedPolicy"=dword:00000000
4"ShippedWithReserves"=dword:00000000

After this, reboot, nothing happen, then, with Dism++ go to optional features options, and uninstall the first not usefull thing, in my case, quick assist, and this force the OS to do some update... or whatever need to do.... and the "stolen" GB show up in explorer

4.jpg

And finally!!!!!! windows now tell me the truth!! jaja 7.5GB used, 21.5GB free, now everything is right

5.jpg

eddman wrote on 2023-09-12, 22:55:

As for the bug in 1803, it was apparently fixed in later versions.

Yes, it seems this bug was fixed in Windows 10 2004+ but my install is older and still have the bug, i was lucky to solve finally, i did not want to start again another windows install

Just searched online... It seems M$ made a clever idea to reserve a portion of system space (7-8GB) to make sure updates will not fail due to insufficient disk space especially when your system partition is very cramped.

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 01:13:

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-09-13, 00:18:

Impossible to have a 8GB installation for windows 10, no way, and not possible to play with a 16GB partition.

? what are you talking about ??? my Win10 install is less than 5GB and with all software i use, office, visual studio, paint shop pro, firefox, mail, etc is less than 8GB

By default Windows creates a page file that's 100% the size of your RAM and hibernate data files about 50-100% the size (adjustable). If you have like only 2GB of RAM then it's entirely possible to have an install that's less than 5GB out-of-box. Shrinking page file and disabling hibernation (which in turn disables fast startup as it relies on that) will also reduce the overall size of an install.

As such, during Windows install, the RAM your system has will be taken into consideration when it tries to calculate how much space is required and how much is recommended. So if you have, say, like 64GB of RAM you would need to have around 100GB free space at minimum to avoid Windows Setup giving you a warning about space recommendation. I think unless your SSD is too small to hold the minimum size of hibernation data, you're not really barred from installing there just that Windows will have to adjust the final page file size accordingly to avoid leaving you with too low free space upon initial boot, but with that much RAM you'll definitely want to further shrink the page file to just the size necessary for Windows features that require it.

Hi, this little beast have 8GB ram, then i dont need pagefile at all with so many ram!! and i find hibernation something useless, the system boots in seconds, the sleep function works great . But even if i want to hibernate or use swap, i think is best not to do in my main disk, this files i will have in a secondary hdd

Just searched online... It seems M$ made a clever idea to reserve a portion of system space (7-8GB) to make sure updates will not fail due to insufficient disk space especially when your system partition is very cramped.

Yes, the horrible thing is that they decide not to make a dummy file that can shrink if update need or something like this.... no.... explorer just report incorrect disk space .... is a big WTF

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 07:52:

Yes, the horrible thing is that they decide not to make a dummy file that can shrink if update need or something like this.... no.... explorer just report incorrect disk space .... is a big WTF

Maybe for this feature, M$ rigged the Win32 API commonly used for returning free space to take reserved area into consideration, so other apps won't accidentally try to write into that area.

I'm not really sure about the Win32 API stability in overall. It's quite possible for M$ to rig well-established APIs at any time for adding more documented or undocumented features into the system.

Had no idea that was a thing. They even posted articles about it, which I missed. The reserved size is even shown in the settings app.

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 07:52:

Hi, this little beast have 8GB ram, then i dont need pagefile at all with so many ram!!

8 GB is not much at all, unless you're doing lighter tasks. I can fill it up even while browsing, and I'm not even one of those people that keeps hundreds of tabs open.

With pagefile entirely disabled, if there comes a situation where RAM becomes maxed out, programs will start behaving erratically. There will be major slowdowns, errors or even crashes.

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 07:52:

and i find hibernation something useless, the system boots in seconds, the sleep function works great .

Hibernation's purpose is not simply for fast boots. Its main benefit is to being able to turn off the computer without having to first save open tasks (e.g. when you're in a hurry), and to pick up where you left off after turning it back on.

With regular (non-hybrid) sleep, if you lose power, you'll also lose unsaved tasks. That can't happen with hibernation.

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 07:52:

Yes, the horrible thing is that they decide not to make a dummy file that can shrink if update need or something like this.... no.... explorer just report incorrect disk space .... is a big WTF

I assume they didn't because there's a chance users will mess with the file and then wonder why updates don't work properly. Reserving a part of the storage is not a bad idea.

eddman wrote on 2023-09-13, 13:32:

Had no idea that was a thing. They even posted articles about it, which I missed. The reserved size is even shown in the setting […]
Show full quote

Had no idea that was a thing. They even posted articles about it, which I missed. The reserved size is even shown in the settings app.

theelf wrote on 2023-09-13, 07:52:

Hi, this little beast have 8GB ram, then i dont need pagefile at all with so many ram!!

8 GB is not much at all, unless you're doing lighter tasks. I can fill it up even while browsing, and I'm not even one of those people that keeps hundreds of tabs open.

With pagefile entirely disabled, if there comes a situation where RAM becomes maxed out, programs will start behaving erratically. There will be major slowdowns, errors or even crashes.

What is lighter? the magick of computers is that everyone have the power knows exactly what they need

For example, right now, i have visual C+ with some code, mingw compiling another weird code, Sylpheed checking mail, Visual Cobol connected to a cobol database getting data, Paint Shop pro 7 with some no very big images im editing, winamp with nice new retro wave music, discord with a midjourning image ia generation, github desktop connected to my user, and of course, firefox to write to you 😀

Task manager say im using 3.25GB ram

This is my hardest working session, normally i dont open so much things, but today i have a lot of work, this is no lighter for me. Even in my worst working day i dont fill half ram

I dont use blender, do 4K video, use big VMs, or edit 40000x40000 images in photoshop, no today, and probably never i will do. If i do i think better to not use a small mini pc with pasive cooling... !

About hibernation, im a old style user, i save EVERYTHING ALL TIME, i open a notepad with code, write 3 letters, save and close, is automatic, a mania maybe. But anyways, because in my town electricity is not always good, i have two truck battery as UPS, thats why im soo happy with the small mini pc, it can work with batteries for days... love

Is nice to save session, i do in VMs, in XP i use VirtualPC a lot with NT4 vms for work and save snapshots, this is something to solve in 10, VirtuaPC i cant make to work. But because my mania to save everything, maybe from DOS era? jaja dont use much

I'm just saying completely disabling the pagefile could be problematic IF, for some unforeseen reason, the RAM becomes maxed out. Just something to keep in mind, that's all.

eddman wrote on 2023-09-13, 19:16:

I'm just saying completely disabling the pagefile could be problematic IF, for some unforeseen reason, the RAM becomes maxed out. Just something to keep in mind, that's all.

I use pagefile just in case, never say did not use, i say i dont need at all.

I checked the system requirements is 32GB storage but you know it is almost full and overly optimistic. The best one tend to have some reserves is 100GB to 250GB. Memory is a *moving* target over the years due to apps ever growing requirements. When windows 10 was released, 8GB was best size for memory. 16GB was about 5 years ago.

Again, you are risking the data and corruption with this hack. Microsoft did this on purpose to have some reserve built in for reliability and *performance* reasons. Not meant to be defeated.

My advice to get between 120GB to 250GB storage still stands. No way you can do it with that storage on a shoe-string capacity.

The fresh win 10 install with all the updates done and some basic apps is around 30 to 40GB. Guaranteed. I know this as I installed win 10 multiple times on many computers of all types and repaired many computers over the years for friends and for work all the way back to DOS days.

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-09-13, 21:43:

My advice to get between 120GB to 250GB storage still stands. No way you can do it with that storage on a shoe-string capacity.

The fresh win 10 install with all the updates done and some basic apps is around 30 to 40GB. Guaranteed. I know this as I installed win 10 multiple times on many computers of all types and repaired many computers over the years for friends and for work all the way back to DOS days.

32GB is indeed too small for Windows, and only barely sufficient for Linux...

All installed updates are stored in WinSxS so if you've installed a lot of updates post-install, you'll have to deal with a huge WinSxS.

eddman wrote on 2023-09-13, 19:16:

I'm just saying completely disabling the pagefile could be problematic IF, for some unforeseen reason, the RAM becomes maxed out. Just something to keep in mind, that's all.

You need at least 800MB of page file on the system partition to be able to collect some info in case you have a BSOD.

If you have plenty of RAM like 32GB or more, keep a minimal page file (1GB recommended) on the system partition. If you don't have that much RAM (and you need to really use page file), you can allocate some more on a spare hard drive so you don't take up precious space on the system drive.

Good luck if you fill the drive. Not sure how Win 10 will act when the partition is 100% full and there's no room for the OS to do what it needs.

Back years ago I was in a training class at work. Microsoft came in and did a class on Win2K Server and all the Active Directory changes. They claimed that 2K was crash proof if the disk filled. I promptly filled the drive to within 20MB using empty files then forced a backup of the Active Directory to C:. Yeah... BSOD and corruption so bad I had to kill the partitions and start over. The MS product engineer doing the training was speechless. 😁

Ah, the joys of finding product problems... Like when I caused a manufacturer to drop their Novell HA product cards and software because their QA team stunk. 😀

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-09-13, 21:43:

The fresh win 10 install with all the updates done and some basic apps is around 30 to 40GB. Guaranteed. I know this as I installed win 10 multiple times on many computers of all types and repaired many computers over the years for friends and for work all the way back to DOS days.

I just installed Windows 10 21H2 64-bit in a VM with the internet connection disabled, and out-of-the-box, with nothing else installed, and excluding the reserved size and pagefile, it's about 12 GB. With pagefile it's 13.6 GB, and with the reserved area 18.7 GB. That would start to balloon rather quickly though, after installing programs and a few windows update sessions.

I don't see how OP's install is 8 GB, unless it's a modified image, or maybe older versions were smaller?

Strange,
So Windows 10 reserves 7GB space for updates. But on the other hand I noticed Windows 10 wants a reserved partition for big updates. Which is annoying for imaging an install.
I had a system without the reserved partition and the 21H2 Feature update repeatedly failed. It is detailed as error 0xc1900200, Which may mean that the system requirements are not met. There was plenty of Partition C: space free.
But since there are no more Windows 10 feature updates on the horizon, 22H2 being the last one, it should not matter anymore?

Don't leave details out, please. What is your system configuration? Ram, processor and video card, motherboard please.

I'm also trying to help as well.

Cheers,

channelmaniac wrote on 2023-09-14, 07:17:

Good luck if you fill the drive. Not sure how Win 10 will act when the partition is 100% full and there's no room for the OS to do what it needs.

Back years ago I was in a training class at work. Microsoft came in and did a class on Win2K Server and all the Active Directory changes. They claimed that 2K was crash proof if the disk filled. I promptly filled the drive to within 20MB using empty files then forced a backup of the Active Directory to C:. Yeah... BSOD and corruption so bad I had to kill the partitions and start over. The MS product engineer doing the training was speechless. 😁

Ah, the joys of finding product problems... Like when I caused a manufacturer to drop their Novell HA product cards and software because their QA team stunk. 😀

Good on you! That still proves my point.

Cheers,