blank001 wrote:

Windows 11 will be a mandatory update from Windows 10 I predict. […]
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Windows 11 will be a mandatory update from Windows 10 I predict.

I may be beating a dead trojan horse here, but there are unsettling things straight from their privacy statement:

Finally, we will access, disclose and preserve personal data, including your content (such as the content of your emails, other private communications or files in private folders), when we have a good faith belief that doing so is necessary to:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatem … nt/default.aspx

If that isn't enough I don't know what is.

On the one hand, the information in that link is terrifying, on the other hand, it's kind of refreshing they are being pretty blunt and open with what they are doing. Almost every section describes their data collection and what they do with it.

I know I said I was going to wait until Windows "10.2" before upgrading my main computer, but I just couldn't sit still today and totally upgraded it. It's been nothing but smooth sailing on the three other computers I upgraded, so I figured why the hell not.

I still can't get over how quickly it boots up. My iPad dreams of this kinda startup speed. 😀

Got in on a few machines, working well so far. But not going to put it on my main PC and capture PC in my lab. AVerMedia and Creative don't have any drivers yet. Creative at least has a roadmap with release times, but a bit worried about AVerMedia. Might have to swap the drive and do a test install of 10 to see if everything works.

Standard Def Steve wrote:

I still can't get over how quickly it boots up. My iPad dreams of this kinda startup speed. 😀

I don't get the big appeal of startup time. Do you really start up your machine that often?

Well after messing around ~2 days with 10/pro/x64 I reverted to my win7 hdd backup that I took before installing.
Win10 are nice but it's too early for me... experienced stupid bugs like files on desktop not deleting, there is a lack of customization options for the gui atm... I'll re-install in 3-4 months 🤣

blank001 wrote:

The mandatory updates are kind of terrifying. Microsoft gets to push whatever binary blobs it wants on to your computer and you'll have no clue clue what's in the source

Updates are only mandatory if you continue to use the Insider Preview program, whereby the trade-off for "getting Windows for free" is that you're a guinea pig for updates. You not only get incremental KB updates, but you will also have new (potentially unstable) builds pushed via that channel.

My updates are disabled, the Automatic Updates service is stopped. No issue. But I upgraded from Windows 8.1 Pro, so I'm not in that class of Insider Preview users. I will re-enable updates though, because I'm not stupid.

And consider this, if you're not a huge computer nerd, what difference does being able to read the source code make? I admit I'm no kernel hacker, so it's just as much faith for me to trust that kernel devs have my interests at heart. If were not a programmer, and source code were double-dutch to me, how are Microsoft's updates any different to, for instance, Canonical's?

Sure. You can make the argument that there are people out there that CAN read the source code, and are "fighting the good fight" on behalf of the broader user base. But that doesn't cut it for me, it still demands a high degree of trust. I can't tell a Linux kernel dev from a bar of soap. They may as well be Microsoft for the difference it makes to me. Both are responsible for making sure the software I use works to some degree. One is motivated by profit, the other is motivated by rampant idealism and narcissism. Much of a muchness IMO.

(And do bear in mind that I say all of that as somebody that uses a lot of Linux in my home. I really like Linux a lot, but I'm happy to admit it's flawed in its own ways.)

They probably have those capabilities to push software in earlier Windows anyways, now they're just using it, and it is somewhat valid. Getting everyone on the latest updates is important for someone like your grandma.

Also: if you're truly paranoid, why not just switch to Linux or whatever right now, if you don't trust Windows? Just remember. if the men in black vans want to get you, they will get you.

Anyways, my opinions on Windows 10: buggy and UI wise, a regression from 8.1, especially for tablets. Will wait until they renege on reneging and fix bugs.

The concern with Windows updates is they are known to push microcode/UEFI/BIOS updates and break stuff.
Not all updates are helpful -- especially when they are designed to disable features. Remember the FTDI counterfeit chip debacle?

Windows 10 Pro updates can still be controlled via GP. So if it really bothers you setup a WSUS server and push when you want.

Yet another reason for not doing the switch, falls into the cookie-jar.... 😉
Perhaps this Win10 thing is better left to ordinaery people and corporations.

If this update thing is going to do more harm, I am glad that I am done being
everyone's personal "you can call him at all time" supporter.
Not that I hate resquing data, or fixing peoples Windows, because they clicked
on this "you are a winner" thing. I just don't want to every week, for free.

Than secure them. Adblock, configure permissions, educate of basic usage, stick a paper next to the monitor saying what not to do.

I tried win 10 on one of the machines here in the workshop. Runs pretty great on an older configuration with 2GB of ram. Edge is kinda meh, but it runs fast so I cant complain. Start looks great, and switching can be made via charms. So far I noticed change in icons and function placement, but it was super easy to get used to.

We will see how will 10 evolve.

SquallStrife wrote:

Updates are only mandatory if you continue to use the Insider Preview program, whereby the trade-off for "getting Windows for fr […]
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blank001 wrote:

The mandatory updates are kind of terrifying. Microsoft gets to push whatever binary blobs it wants on to your computer and you'll have no clue clue what's in the source

Updates are only mandatory if you continue to use the Insider Preview program, whereby the trade-off for "getting Windows for free" is that you're a guinea pig for updates. You not only get incremental KB updates, but you will also have new (potentially unstable) builds pushed via that channel.

My updates are disabled, the Automatic Updates service is stopped. No issue. But I upgraded from Windows 8.1 Pro, so I'm not in that class of Insider Preview users. I will re-enable updates though, because I'm not stupid.

And consider this, if you're not a huge computer nerd, what difference does being able to read the source code make? I admit I'm no kernel hacker, so it's just as much faith for me to trust that kernel devs have my interests at heart. If were not a programmer, and source code were double-dutch to me, how are Microsoft's updates any different to, for instance, Canonical's?

Sure. You can make the argument that there are people out there that CAN read the source code, and are "fighting the good fight" on behalf of the broader user base. But that doesn't cut it for me, it still demands a high degree of trust. I can't tell a Linux kernel dev from a bar of soap. They may as well be Microsoft for the difference it makes to me. Both are responsible for making sure the software I use works to some degree. One is motivated by profit, the other is motivated by rampant idealism and narcissism. Much of a muchness IMO.

(And do bear in mind that I say all of that as somebody that uses a lot of Linux in my home. I really like Linux a lot, but I'm happy to admit it's flawed in its own ways.)

Well it's certainly nice to hear that only some users are forced updates while the rest are just coerced (i.e. via threats of security or non-optimal performance).

I'm not sure what much of muchness means. I don't know any open source developers who are overtly narcissistic. Idealist, maybe. Open source communities usually make progress because a bunch of people each tackle a small problem in their own time because they themselves want to solve the problem. I.e. they want to make an existing open source program do something it couldn't do before, or make a program that didn't really exist at all. Each line of code was written in the interest of developer, who is in turn a user. A company that specializes in proprietary software writes each line of code in the interest of the corporation. I see this as a fundamental difference, but many do not or do not care. If it really comes down to trust (because it can be for example daunting to read all lines of all source of all programs), then I guess I know where I stand.

Also, it's about more than trust for those who like to study code or make changes to their software. Openness (and to that extent freeness) becomes required.

smeezekitty wrote:

Standard Def Steve wrote:

I still can't get over how quickly it boots up. My iPad dreams of this kinda startup speed. 😀

I don't get the big appeal of startup time. Do you really start up your machine that often?

Usually twice a day.

I know the 5 seconds that I save over Win7 doesn't sound like much, but it's that "fuck, this computer is fuckin' fast" reaction which makes the update seem that much better! And it's free, so why not? You don't see Mac users reject a free OS upgrade (though I certainly wouldn't blame them for thinking twice about that slow pig of an OS, Yosemite).

Windows 7 is perfect for me. I always had the latest and greatest versions of windows, including most beta's. After windows 7 i lost interest, it simply works.

I have seen windows 10 running at a friends pc. Even he says it's a but buggy and he was pretty happy with windows 8 and 8.1 (after putting in the ''normal'' start menu).

I will upgrade when i really need it.

blank001 wrote:

Well it's certainly nice to hear that only some users are forced updates while the rest are just coerced (i.e. via threats of security or non-optimal performance).

Not really with any more vigour than Linux does it.

1root@atom's password:
2Welcome to Ubuntu 14.04.2 LTS (GNU/Linux 3.13.0-34-generic i686)
3
4Last login: Fri Jul 31 08:49:02 2015 from xxxxxxxxx
5
678 packages can be updated.
753 updates are security updates.
8
9root@atom:~#

blank001 wrote:

Also, it's about more than trust for those who like to study code or make changes to their software. Openness (and to that extent freeness) becomes required.

Without a doubt. What I dislike is the attitude that people without that inclination (for example, despite being a programmer by trade, the last thing I'd ever want to do with my spare time is read other people's code) are somehow lesser people for it, are somehow behaving unethically, or that they don't deserve to use computers, or other such nonsense.

Standard Def Steve wrote:

smeezekitty wrote:

Standard Def Steve wrote:

I still can't get over how quickly it boots up. My iPad dreams of this kinda startup speed. 😀

I don't get the big appeal of startup time. Do you really start up your machine that often?

Usually twice a day.

I know the 5 seconds that I save over Win7 doesn't sound like much, but it's that "fuck, this computer is fuckin' fast" reaction which makes the update seem that much better! And it's free, so why not? You don't see Mac users reject a free OS upgrade (though I certainly wouldn't blame them for thinking twice about that slow pig of an OS, Yosemite).

I usually turn my machine on once in the morning and leave it booting as I get ready for the day. It doesn't make a difference if it takes 10 seconds or 4 minutes to boot.
The only time it annoys me is if I have to restart several times for updates/drivers/troubleshooting but that is pretty rare

Why not? Because of the loss of privacy

Now iam on windows 10 pro. On my new hardware as temporarily test build.

Startup time is very important since it seems like since I've been using the previews that Windows 10 likes to reboot due to updates when you want to use it.

DosFreak wrote:

Startup time is very important since it seems like since I've been using the previews that Windows 10 likes to reboot due to updates when you want to use it.

Yeah, I've been annoyed by this. Many updates that don't normally require a reboot, like revising NVIDIA drivers seem to force a reboot. I have no idea why, since installing them via their normal installation routine doesn't require one.

Scali wrote:

I have a few PCs with Windows 8.1, where I registered for the free Win10 update, but none of them have downloaded the update yet, apparently, because I haven't seen the notification to install it yet.
As soon as I get the signal, I will upgrade.

Didn't want to wait any longer, so over the weekend I upgraded all three of my Windows 8.1 machines using the tool that Microsoft has available.
The upgrades weren't entirely flawless, I had to reinstall touchpad drivers manually for one of my laptops. It just detected a standard mouse, so gestures didn't work anymore until I reinstalled the drivers.

Another machine didn't have enough diskspace the first time, but apparently the installer did not signal for that, so it just gave me a vague "Something went wrong"-message halfway through the install. The next time I tried, it said it couldn't validate the key... so I had to manually delete all the temporary stuff, make some extra room, and finally I could get it on there.

Then I had to manually reinstall the GeForce 970 drivers, because somehow they were not working correctly after the upgrade. I also had to reinstall some Visual Studio runtimes manually, but after that, things seem to work fine.

My first impression is that it works quite nicely once you straightened out the upgrade. On my laptop it does not boot quite as fast as Windows 8.1, it would seem. However, I usually hibernate, which is just as fast, so it's not a big issue.
On my desktop, the boot time does not seem to have changed much, if at all. Perhaps it will also get better with some use, as modern Windows tend to defragment and optimize the boot order over time.

Anyway, the real reason for upgrading for me is to do DX12 development. I was in the DX12 early access program, and have already done some DX12 coding with earlier versions of Win10 and DX12, but only in a virtual machine, with the software renderer.
I can now do some more serious development, and hopefully upgrade my codebase to DX12 in the coming months.