candle_86 wrote:

As I work in a large enviroment what your describing isn't just from customs, I've seen my fair share of Dells/HP's/Lenovos with the same kind of problems, matter of fact we have an Optiplex 9020 that no matter what couldn't be repaired, we tried mobo, psu, ram, cpu, hard drive, opticial nothing made it work, we sent it back to dell for a replacement

Well true, I just mentioned the problems I had with custom builds, with which I certainly did not want to imply that this does not happen to OEM machines as well.
However, you say you got a replacement. That is different from my story though. In your story, the machine you got was a 'dud', apparently, but if the replacement is the exact same type/model of machine, then apparently there aren't structural design flaws in the machine.
In my case, there were design flaws, so even the replacements didn't work.

I would be surprised if that would ever happen with a big OEM like Dell. Where a custom build is basically a one-off machine, and you may just happen to have some configuration that is incompatible in some way, that won't happen with Dell. They design the machine once, then build hundreds of thousands of the same machine. So they'll go through QA to make sure all components work together properly, and assuming you don't get a 'dud', it will at least work out-of-the-box.
You may still get problems when you try to expand/upgrade it though, as I mentioned earlier.

My first PC (in 1992) was a crappy "custom(?)" from a crappy local PC builder(?). It was very problematic, but thinking about it, it was a good thing maybe, since I learned a lot just by trying to solve it's problems. 🤣

During that times, OEMs (IBM, HP and Compaq were the king) were all very expensive for my budget so they were not even an option.

For the next 3-4 years, I've seen insides of many PCs including OEMs, and I realized that they are not just expensive, but also has many unexplainably unique / non standard parts, which would cripple them seriously when it comes to upgrading. And upgrading was something you do continuously during that times, since it was the hey days of hardware and software evolution. So I never purchased a single OEM in my whole life.

Budget today, is not as much as a limit as it was; regular and quick upgrades are now also a thing of the past (main rig is still a C2Q from about 2009) but I still prefer custom builds from individually purchased components, because I still like to have more options in front of me and maybe more importantly, I like to build computers. 😊

Our first computer was an Amstrad PCW, but back in the early to mid-1980s about everything was not standard, so that one doesn't count. 🤣

Our first PC was an OEM 486 machine by German/Dutch system-builder Escom that consisted of standard parts - most of them noname cheap stuff.

Our second PC was a Gateway 2000 Pentium II (that I still own). Good quality all around, Intel OEM board, quality case with sound-proofing and no sharp edges, all standard parts, etc. Also came with a OEM version of Windows 95 that wasn't customized by Gateway - for that you had to install their utility CD which didn't work due to all of the programs on it missing files 🤣 .

The first PC I bought on my own was a custom build on a MSI mother board with an AMD Duron processor from a then-well known Dutch computer retailer (now bankrupt, wonder why...) that gave me nothing but problems: hard disk corruption up to 9000, random crashes, reboots after 2-3 hours of running it continuously, DMA that got disabled randomly by Windows on boot up, etc. I went through three hard disks in a year, the shop where I originally bought it was rude about actually fixing it 😠 and another shop had a look at it and couldn't find anything wrong with the actual components. Finally I got fed up and parted it out, trashing the mother board, and bought myself a Apple eMac (now that had very limited options but it just worked until the bad-quality caps used in the PSU gave out a few years later). Amusingly the last hard disk of my ill-fated PC is still working fine as a second disk in the Gateway 15 years later...with performance I just never had in the custom build.

Our (well, my parents') third PC was a Dell P4 that uses some proprietary bits, has a horrible quality case with sharp edges, and works just fine besides getting a bit hot under heavy load.

Basically, I prefer OEM systems because they tend to have been thoroughly tested. All the better if they use standard parts...

If you like German cars you can't dislike OEM systems for there proprietary parts or odd ways of doing things.

Just saying...

The Dell Precision Workstation series of the late 90's was awesome!

While my mother had endless problems with OEM PCs, my custom build Pentium 2 from a Dutch large retailer was still happily chugging along while my mother kept replacing misbehaving Dells and HPs, one after another. The only OEM machine of hers that actually managed to run for much longer (a Fujitsu Siemens that I kept upgrading and eventually ended up becoming my property) even after her next OEM machine lived, bogged down, started bluescreening and misbehaving and finally died, was mostly because I kept upgrading the FS and giving it some TLC. Actually, she has tossed at the very least 5 to 10 OEM machines (several of them having been multicore CPUs by now) and my Pentium 2 was still working last time I tried it 🤣!

To me, OEM machines just make nice donor parts for my own custom builds (unless the OEM machine is build like a custom box 😁).

But hey, to each his own 😉

Well, I should add that I've had incredibly bad luck with all computers I've bought new personally (#1 was unstable, #2 gave up after only 6 years (but parts live on), #3 was DOA, #4 had a corrupted hard disk image installed to it at the factory - three of those were Apples too). On the other hand, anything pre-owned by someone else continues working for ages... 🤣

yawetaG wrote:

Well, I should add that I've had incredibly bad luck with all computers I've bought new personally (#1 was unstable, #2 gave up after only 6 years (but parts live on), #3 was DOA, #4 had a corrupted hard disk image installed to it at the factory - three of those were Apples too). On the other hand, anything pre-owned by someone else continues working for ages... 🤣

I see you're a fellow Dutchmen 🤣.

Actually, my Pentium 2 was build by MyCom and they tended to use FSP PSUs. My 235W Powerman PSU (which was essentialy an FSP design anyway) was still in working order when I last tried it a few years ago.
In that time, MyCom tended to very much like ASUS and at a time ASUS made very solid boards. It wasn't until later that I started reading about these odd ASUS oddnessess and screwups (like their s478 boards suddenly dying and the A7V133 which was tweaker's heaven and needed a LOT of determination to get stable...a challenge I accepted and overcame after a lot of trying and reading).

Paradigit otoh had some odd retail-computer building decisions, which gave their systems an Achilles' heel. A friend of mine had to replace his motherboard once and his brand new (and very expensive!) Q6600 system with 8800GTS came with a 350W FSP PSU and no case fan whatsoever!
That poor PSU had to overwork basically constantly while having to put up with all the heat the system would produce during heavy use. A recipe for future disaster if you asked me.
And a single exhaust case fan would cost only like €10 or so, really a very poor way to save a few cents 😵

I decided to improve his system for the long run by adding a 12cm case exhaust fan and by replacing his 350W FSP PSU with a (I think) 600W OCZ PSU (which was an FSP design and I had already used a couple OCZ PSUs for a while which turned out to be good value for money) and his system is actually still in running condition now!

The Fujitsu Siemens Barton 3200+ had received similar upgrades and enhancements. It was a real pitty the system didn't even have an exhaust case fan and the system could only have added a single 8cm one (which was barely enough frankly, but a vast improvement nonetheless) and the stock Socket A HSF had to be de-dusted very regularly or the CPU would overheat making the system lock-up very regularly.
Replacing the stock HSF with an Arctic Cooling Copper Lite 3 (or Silent 3, I really don't know the difference tbh) fixed all CPU overheating issues.

So imo OEM builds can actually be very good, but oftentimes the designs have one of several major flaws which present the systems with obvious bottlenecks, making these systems much more unreliable then they could be.

My early PC history:
Philips P 3238: OEM 286: worked great (dealer)
Custom 486 DX 33: worked great (mail order)
Custom Pentium 90 (local shop)
Custom Pentium 133 (regional dealer)
Custom Pentium 800 (local shop)
Custom Pentium IV (national chain)
Custom Pentium IV (DiGiDice gift by designer)
ThinkPad T43p: OEM (private seller)
ThinkPad T40p: OEM (private seller)
ThinkPad W500: OEM (national student discount program)
ThinkPad W520: OEM (national chain)

Jade Falcon wrote:

If you like German cars you can't dislike OEM systems for there proprietary parts or odd ways of doing things.

Just saying...

Well, considering German cars are good and I'm not in the habit of upgrading my car by replacing and/or adding parts, I still like German cars and not OEMs, again providing that I'm in the habit of upgrading my pc by replacing and/or adding parts. 🤣

tayyare wrote:

Jade Falcon wrote:

If you like German cars you can't dislike OEM systems for there proprietary parts or odd ways of doing things.

Just saying...

Well, considering German cars are good and I'm not in the habit of upgrading my car by replacing and/or adding parts, I still like German cars and not OEMs, again providing that I'm in the habit of upgrading my pc by replacing and/or adding parts. 🤣

Living out side the USA would make that statement hard to understand.

Over here most German cars are hated and very expensive. Some are botched to meat regulations too. They're really the OEM counterpart in the car market. And they tend to out source cheaper parts here too.

I like both for diffrent reasons. Originally people disliked OEM primarily due to the proprietary parts, the parts weren't bad though. Until we hit what I cann the era of e-machines. The cost cutting measures OEMs took went to a level where quality took a HUGE dip. I like custom machines of all era's but an OEM machine will always be cheaper then a custom one primarily because that is what people look for when putting together their own system.

There are a couple of OEM systems that are very nostaglic for me because I remember using them as a kid. I remember my friend had an early pentium Packard Bell system when I had a custom 486. I hated Packard Bells at the time because of the lack of customizable options but at the same time I had a better experinace playing on my buddies Pentium Packard Bell until I finally got the cash together to build my Pentium 2 when I was in highschool.

Ultimately there is no wrong or right just opinions. The only thing that you can't debate is certain area's where OEM quality went down but I think that started turning around and is no longer an issue with Core2 hardware and newer.

Compaq Deskpro 4000 series was awesome. 😊 Still have on 200MMX one. Can take 250MB Sims.

In 2010 I worked in a project that upgraded around a 100 HP desktops to a newer model. One of the new ones were DOA and at least once a week one of them refused to boot because the square(!) power button was stuck inside the case frame. About twice a month few of them refused to boot before I took the RAM chips out and moved them to different slots. Dell also suffered from similar behavior regarding bad quality caps in Optiplex 320 where they started to leak prematurely. Only OEM systems that seemed to work fine were pre HP Compaq's and pre Lenovo IBM's. 🤣

I remember just about every PC that's ever been run through my family.

1992-1996 - 486/33 AT-standard system (Generic Build)
Had 8MB of EDO RAM until it was increased to roughly 16MB later.
No idea what video card was in there.
I remember we added a CD-ROM drive by buying an Adlib sound-card combo system.
MS-DOS and Windows 3.1.
1996-1999 Packard Bell (OEM)
100MHz Pentium
16MB EDO RAM
Video - whatever the hell was on that MB with 1MB of memory. I think there was a slot to add another 1MB, but it was proprietary and too expensive.
Had a 1.6 GB HDD with a 1.2 partition and a 2nd I think using the rest.
Sound and modem were an all-in-one card that did work for a few years. The modem was a 28Kbps one and it was our first experience with actual internet access.
It may have been a "Packard Hell" but let me tell ya, this thing was FAST compared to the old 486.
Ran Windows 95.

1999-2003 First Gaming PC (Custom Build)
350MHz Pentium II
128MB PC-100 RAM
10GB Maxtor HDD (failed after 2 years and replaced with 30GB Western Digital, never used Maxtor again if I could help it)
Video - Diamond Stealth II G460 AGP (Intel i740 chip, 8MB RAM)
Audio - Creative Labs Sound Blaster AWE64 Gold (this thing was f***ing AWESOME)
32x CD-ROM (later added a 4/4/2x Sony CD-RW)
100MB IOMEGA ZIP drive (IDE in a 3.5" bay)
Windows 98 (FIRST EDITION - which I still have to this day, the original CD plus copies I made to use instead of scratching up my valuable original)
It might not have been a ridiculous gaming monster, but it cost $1,100 back in the day and I used it not only to game on (played Half-Life acceptably at 800x600 and FF7 like a charm at 640x480) but also to compile code (I still have the Borland C++ Builder 3 software) while I was in college for Computer Science (read: programming). A very good work horse PC and it kind-of spoiled me after I got it.
We got this one with a 56Kbps PCI modem and eventually added a 10/100BaseT PCI card when we made the switch away from dial-up to broadband.

2003-2005 Second Gaming PC (Custom Build)
1.53GHz AMD Athlon XP 1800+
256MB DDR-133 RAM
60GB WD HDD (PATA still)
Video - ATI Radeon 7500 64MB AGP 4x
Audio - Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 PCI
DVD-ROM + CD-RW drives (two IDE drives)
250MB IOMEGA ZIP drive (also IDE in a 3.5" bay)
Windows XP
I remember using a Windows XP disk that came with a laptop my dad had gotten (I was just about to graduate college at this point) and used that for a few years before I entered the military and left the system behind. I built this system around playing Final Fantasy XI - and that game is STILL UP, if you can believe that. At some point, I don't remember if the 7500 went bad or I just wanted to upgrade, but I stuck a Radeon 9550 256MB in there and it's still there to this day. Yes, it's performance was only ON-PAR with the 7500. If I had known then what I know now, I'd have shelled out more money and gotten the 9700 Pro. The MB is limited to AGP 4x, but a 9800XL would still be bad-ass. I kinda want one....but I don't waste my money because I still have...

2005-2010 Dell Inspiron XPS Gen 2 (OEM Laptop)
2.13GHz Intel Pentium M 770
1GB DDR2-533
Video - nVidia GeForce Go 6800 Ultra 256MB PCI-Express 16x (1.0 revision)
Audio - whatever was on the MB
80GB Toshiba PATA HDD
1920x1200 (16:10) 17" LCD panel display
Windows XP
I bought this one after I had signed up for the military. I think Dell was giving discounts to service members and I was in AIT (Advanced Individual Training - i.e. JOB training after Basic Training, where you learn how to be a soldier first) and I ordered this so I could carry it around, but still game on it. It was a MUCH better system than the AMD was, ran cooler overall, and the 6800 was so much more powerful than the Radeon 7500 that it blew me away, even using the laptop version (GO). But two years later (while at first duty station in Hawaii), the graphics card went belly-up and I had to replace it, so I ordered the nVidia GeForce Go 7800 GTX that's in there now, also a 256MB PCI-Express card and it still works flawlessly today. I had to update the MB BIOS to get it to recognize the card, but it works. I also bumped the system RAM to 2GB almost immediately after I purchased it (which maxes the MB out, unfortunately), as well as changing out the HDD to a bigger 250GB one.
Unfortunately, that caused issues. The MB only supports 137GB drives, but was able to see, boot from, and load Windows into the 250. At some point, Windows would run an update that would place a system file past that 137GB size point and the system would there-after REFUSE to boot. I had no choice but to wipe-and-load Windows XP from scratch each time until I understood the problem. I have since remedied it by using a 40GB C: partition for Windows XP and a 200GB D: partition for everything else. Works perfectly fine this way.

My point here is that even though it's an OEM build, it was still a STABLE and BAD-ASS build....except for the 137GB HDD size limit. I tried putting a 320GB drive in there and the system refused to see it at all. I ended up getting an external USB enclosure for it and using it as a PS3 system backup drive.

2009-2015 Mother's replacement PC
Ok, so here I built a system for my mother/father because their older Windows Me system sucked so much ass and was very under-powered. I promised them I could build a rediculously powerful PC for only $500, and I came in at roughly $524 total for it because I used the PC case from the old AMD Athlon build (I have since restored that system to its original configuration).
Intel Core 2 Duo E7300 Wolfdale Dual-Core 2.66 GHz LGA 775 $119.99
G.SKILL 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2-800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit $45.99
SuperMicro MBD-C2SBA+ LGA 775 Intel G33 ATX motherboard $139.99
Video - XFX nVidia GeForce 8400GS PCI-Express (she's not a gamer and doesn't need stupid power) $37.99
640GB Western Digital Blue 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATAII HDD $74.99
Windows Vista Home Premium SP1 32-bit $104.99

2010-2015 Post-Deployment Reward (Custom Build)
Well, that laptop started feeling dated, so here we go again. I went custom here because I wanted a seriously powerful system to run Final Fantasy XIV (version 1.0, which I still have the Collector's Edition box of) and I didn't like how hard it was to upgrade the OEM DELL laptop. While I was happy with the laptop purchase and I still pull it out from time to time to do older gaming (Phantasy Star Universe I JUST got working without the servers and The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind and Oblivion, not to mention the occasional "Return to Vana'diel" campaigns in Final Fantasy XI), I wanted something that was MUCH more powerful and a hell of a lot easier to upgrade. However, I had plans for this system that never came to fruition. Let's go through it.
2.8GHz Intel Core i7-860 Lynnfield Quad-Core LGA 1156 95W $279.99
MSI Big Bang Trinergy LGA 1156 Intel P55 / nVidia NF200 ATX motherboard $329.99
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3-1600 (PC3 12800) $374.99
G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3-1600 (PC3 12800) $369.99
eVGA nVidia GeForce GTX 480 $499.99
Pioneer Black BD-RW SATA $199.99
1TB Western Digital Black
Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit $99.99
KINGWIN Lazer LZ-1000 1,000 Watt Semi-modular 80 Plus Bronze Active PFC W/ 3-Way LED Switch $159.99
Antel 1200 Black Steel ATX Full-Tower case $159.99
Swiftech Quiet Power MCR220-QP Liquid Cooler Radiator (2x120mm) $44.99
Danger Den GTX 480 Full-Copper Nickel-plated water-cooling block $149.99
My eventual plan was to install a full water-cooling loop, but it never happened. In 2011 I bought a 2nd GTX 480, a Galaxy brand (for only $257.55 I might add) and did 2-way SLI with it and it was glorious until the eVGA started crapping out and I was forced to move the Galaxy card up to the primary slot alone. I RMA'd the eVGA for a refurbished one they had in stock...but that one eventually started having issues as well right about 2015 when I wanted to go ahead and upgrade to my new (current) PC. This one still games well, though. Plays Tomb Raider (2013) in 1920x1080 at medium or high settings without the Tress-FX hair with good framerates, although it does run a bit hot (hence wanting to water cool it). I still have the Galaxy card and I might still add that Danger Dan waterblock to it, but for that I'd want to complete my original custom loop idea. I already have the radiator. I just need the CPU block and another 120mm radiator, reservoir and pump. My plan was to get a 2-bay radiator/pump housing for a powerful D5 pump > CPU block > 120mm rad > GTX 480 block > 240mm rad > res/pump. But I'd need a good case for all that.

2015-Current Modern Gaming (Custom Build)
4.0 GHz Intel Core i7-6700K Skylake LGA-1151 Quad-Core $369.99
Corsair Hydro Series H100i GTX Extreme Performance Water/Liquid CPU Cooler 240mm $111.99
MSI Z170A Gaming M7 motherboard $170.00
G.SKILL Ripjaws V Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) 288-pin DDR4-3200 (PC4 25600) $144.99
MSI GeForce GTX 980TI 6GD5 V1 $649.99
Samsung SM951 M.2 256GB Internal SSD OEM $219.99
Samsung 850 EVO 1TB SATA3 Internal SSD $319.99
Windows 10 Home 64-bit $99.99
Seagate 3TB SATA3 HDD $89.99
I'm a chunky monkey from Funky Town.

Hey, come on, German cars are the best, well here in Europe, we mostly hate French cars, and Japanish and Korean cars are bit "oem".... hybrid cars... Lexux ...

I have owned 3 Fords 2 Dierras and one Mondeo 1 Bmw E38 735i and 2 Audi A6 Quattros one C6 and one C7, and i love german cars.

Sorry, if going off topic 😉

Jade Falcon wrote:

tayyare wrote:

Jade Falcon wrote:

If you like German cars you can't dislike OEM systems for there proprietary parts or odd ways of doing things.

Just saying...

Well, considering German cars are good and I'm not in the habit of upgrading my car by replacing and/or adding parts, I still like German cars and not OEMs, again providing that I'm in the habit of upgrading my pc by replacing and/or adding parts. 🤣

Living out side the USA would make that statement hard to understand.

Over here most German cars are hated and very expensive. Some are botched to meat regulations too. They're really the OEM counterpart in the car market. And they tend to out source cheaper parts here too.