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Apple is getting off Intel CPU’s ?

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Reply 260 of 344, by Bruninho

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https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/29/apple-ro … -surface-pro-x/

It’s running with half the cores available and yet it is better than the Surface Pro X - and with Rosetta. Oh my... how powerful the A14 can be?

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 261 of 344, by Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman

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Okay, any reason why Apple won't use Ryzen CPU? There are lots of tech-related news I missed lately.

Never thought this thread would be that long, but now, for something different.....
Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman.

Reply 262 of 344, by Bruninho

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Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote on 2020-06-30, 04:02:

Okay, any reason why Apple won't use Ryzen CPU? There are lots of tech-related news I missed lately.

With AMD they would face the same issues they are facing with Intel. No sense in going AMD, as much as I like them, doing their own is the right route after what I have witnessed recently.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 263 of 344, by dr.zeissler

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As jobs said...use your own silicon and you a far ahead...

CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000

Reply 264 of 344, by appiah4

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dr.zeissler wrote on 2020-06-30, 06:20:

As jobs said...use your own silicon and you a far ahead...

These were dumb words back when they were said and they still are dumb as hell today. We saw how it ended for Apple back then. We know how it will end up today.

Last edited by appiah4 on 2020-06-30, 08:03. Edited 1 time in total.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 265 of 344, by ShovelKnight

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There was a time in 2016-2017 when I felt that Apple was going to let the Mac wither on the vine. Basically every single Mac they were selling at the time was either hopelessly outdated (Mac mini, MacBook Air), hopelessly broken (MacBook Pro) or both (Mac Pro).

I may be unhappy with this transition but at least it shows that the Mac is here to stay. They wouldn't have invested hundreds of millions, if not billions, into this transition if they wanted to kill the platform.

Reply 266 of 344, by Dominus

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-30, 08:01:
dr.zeissler wrote on 2020-06-30, 06:20:

As jobs said...use your own silicon and you a far ahead...

These were dumb words back when they were said and they still are dumb as hell today. We saw how it ended for Apple back then. We know how it will end up today.

As I wrote elsewhere in this thread, right now Apple's cashcow is not the desktop part, they can risk stuff in that segment and probably not loose much or if it's really crashing they can revert their way.

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Reply 267 of 344, by ShovelKnight

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When IBM decided to go proprietary with PS/2 and MCA, the leading PC clone manufacturers of the day formed the so-called "Gang of Nine" and decided to make their own standards.

They were:

AST Research, Inc.
Compaq Computer Corporation
Seiko Epson Corporation
Hewlett-Packard Company
NEC Corporation
Olivetti
Tandy Corporation
WYSE
Zenith Data Systems

Needles to say, 8 out of 9 companies on the list are now dead or no longer make PCs. So yeah, following the standards appears to be a surefire way to avoid sliding into irrelevance.

Reply 268 of 344, by dr.zeissler

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-30, 08:01:

These were dumb words back when they were said and they still are dumb as hell today.
We saw how it ended for Apple back then. We know how it will end up today.

That needs an explanation...why do you think so?

CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000

Reply 269 of 344, by dr.zeissler

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https://www.macrumors.com/2020/06/29/apple-ro … -surface-pro-x/

CPU: PII 133-333 MOBO: SNI-D981 RAM: 512- FDD: Dualfloppy 3,5"HD/5,25"HD - 3,5"HD - 5,25"DD ISA-Catweasel HDD: 2x40GB - DVD
ISA(3): Audician32-S2Dreamblaster - GusACE PCI(3): Monster3D- Intel NW AGP(1): 3dfx V3-3000

Reply 270 of 344, by appiah4

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Mac Mini and surface pro x are completely different form factors, and the A12 in that Mac Mini is probably running at an uncomparable TDP limit.

EDIT: And I checked, of course the Surface Pro X is only 7W TDP while the regular Mac Mini can handle up to 28W TDP (4 times!!!). For all we know that A12 also had its thermal limits increased significantly. Garbage comparison is garbage.

For what it's worth, here is what a 15W Ryzen Mobile 4800U x86_64 can do in Geekbench:

ryzen-7-4800u-geekbench-testine-tabi-tutuldu117998_1.jpg

Apple can GTFO with their useless overpriced junk. Big core/small core shit belongs to the mobile and will die a terrible death on the desktop.

EDIT2: Another issue with the comparison is that Windows 10 on ARM is incredibly poorly optimized for the Big/Small core architecture, and thus running it native instead of through emulation does not even remotely have the kind of benefit you think it does.

Last edited by appiah4 on 2020-06-30, 11:43. Edited 2 times in total.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 273 of 344, by Dominus

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-30, 11:28:
Mac Mini and surface pro x are completely different form factors, and the A12 in that Mac Mini is probably running at an uncompa […]
Show full quote

Mac Mini and surface pro x are completely different form factors, and the A12 in that Mac Mini is probably running at an uncomparable TDP limit.

EDIT: And I checked, of course the Surface Pro X is only 7W TDP while the regular Mac Mini can handle up to 28W TDP (4 times!!!). For all we know that A12 also had its thermal limits increased significantly. Garbage comparison is garbage.

For what it's worth, here is what a 15W Ryzen Mobile 4800U x86_64 can do in Geekbench:

ryzen-7-4800u-geekbench-testine-tabi-tutuldu117998_1.jpg

Apple can GTFO with their useless overpriced junk. Big core/small core shit belongs to the mobile and will die a terrible death on the desktop.

EDIT2: Another issue with the comparison is that Windows 10 on ARM is incredibly poorly optimized for the Big/Small core architecture, and thus running it native instead of through emulation does not even remotely have the kind of benefit you think it does.

Not to mention this is Apple's first BETA of the OS and a two years old underclocked chip that is nowhere what the actual desktop chip will be...

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
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Reply 274 of 344, by ShovelKnight

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Dominus wrote on 2020-06-30, 11:52:

Not to mention this is Apple's first BETA of the OS and a two years old underclocked chip that is nowhere what the actual desktop chip will be...

I have always said that the two worst things about Apple are the pro-Apple crowd and the anti-Apple crowd.

The pro-Apple crowd can be pretty sickening with their tendency to defend every stupid shit Apple does, but then they somehow have to justify their unorthodox choice.

The anti-Apple crowd is even worse, for the most part they have never used an Apple product and are just irrational haters.

Reply 275 of 344, by brownk

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-29, 12:45:

I always chose mac over anything because as an UI/UX Designer, I love macOS, the looks and feel of the system, and how easy my workflow is there. I don’t have any of these with Windows 10. It’s just painful for me to use current generation Windows

I feel ya.

I did ios+android app dev for some years and everyone I met carried a mbp. You might hypothesize that it's just a local phenomena to where I reside. Well, I happened to go around few places in europe, asia and us. Everyone, except like 1% diehard linuxer android dev, carried a mbp. period.

One peculiar aspect I found out in my time with mac was that my thought flow wasn't as frequently interrupted as it was with linux. Once you set your mac for your liking, you're good to go for about as long as you want. You are mostly safe to expect a high level of continuity in this regard after major os updates, which isn't the case with linux.

All in all, it's not just about look-and-feel. Sublime Text, or Android Studio maintains pretty much the same UI regardless of platform, but the platform difference in experience is there. If you were at least once derailed for a good chunk of your time to fix issues after automatic dpkg run, you'd know what I'm talking about.

Btw, I haven't even mentioned the case of windows.

Last edited by brownk on 2020-06-30, 13:16. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 276 of 344, by ShovelKnight

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It's been my experience as well that when people have the choice, they tend to prefer the Mac.

I've spent 10 years at a company where employees could request either an MBP or a ThinkPad once every 2 years. People coming from Windows-only shops would usually request a ThinkPad at first, but switch to an MBP in 2 years after mingling with the colleagues.

Reply 277 of 344, by Intel486dx33

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ShovelKnight wrote on 2020-06-30, 10:00:
When IBM decided to go proprietary with PS/2 and MCA, the leading PC clone manufacturers of the day formed the so-called "Gang o […]
Show full quote

When IBM decided to go proprietary with PS/2 and MCA, the leading PC clone manufacturers of the day formed the so-called "Gang of Nine" and decided to make their own standards.

They were:

AST Research, Inc.
Compaq Computer Corporation
Seiko Epson Corporation
Hewlett-Packard Company
NEC Corporation
Olivetti
Tandy Corporation
WYSE
Zenith Data Systems

Needles to say, 8 out of 9 companies on the list are now dead or no longer make PCs. So yeah, following the standards appears to be a surefire way to avoid sliding into irrelevance.

I remember reading about this back in the day. I think HP was the leader push for open standards.

Reply 278 of 344, by Bruninho

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Dominus wrote on 2020-06-30, 11:52:
appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-30, 11:28:
Mac Mini and surface pro x are completely different form factors, and the A12 in that Mac Mini is probably running at an uncompa […]
Show full quote

Mac Mini and surface pro x are completely different form factors, and the A12 in that Mac Mini is probably running at an uncomparable TDP limit.

EDIT: And I checked, of course the Surface Pro X is only 7W TDP while the regular Mac Mini can handle up to 28W TDP (4 times!!!). For all we know that A12 also had its thermal limits increased significantly. Garbage comparison is garbage.

For what it's worth, here is what a 15W Ryzen Mobile 4800U x86_64 can do in Geekbench:

ryzen-7-4800u-geekbench-testine-tabi-tutuldu117998_1.jpg

Apple can GTFO with their useless overpriced junk. Big core/small core shit belongs to the mobile and will die a terrible death on the desktop.

EDIT2: Another issue with the comparison is that Windows 10 on ARM is incredibly poorly optimized for the Big/Small core architecture, and thus running it native instead of through emulation does not even remotely have the kind of benefit you think it does.

Not to mention this is Apple's first BETA of the OS and a two years old underclocked chip that is nowhere what the actual desktop chip will be...

And the DTK has only 16GB of RAM and 4 of the 8 cores enabled, but an extra GPU core enabled. Now imagine if they had unleashed the full power of it + added a cooling system. It’d be bonkers and it’s a 2 yr old gen cpu!

And the DTK isnt even close to what the production units will be.

The A13 is supposedly 12-15% faster, so the future A14 that will in fact power the real ARM Macs will be absolute monsters.

I just need to know in which position we are in terms of virtualization/emulation of x86 OS. I need to keep my vintage VMs working and a W10 VM for a few modern games 😀

Now I will wait for the next chapters less worried than I was two weeks ago.

"Design isn't just what it looks like and feels like. Design is how it works."
JOBS, Steve.

Reply 279 of 344, by darry

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Bruninho wrote on 2020-06-30, 14:06:
And the DTK has only 16GB of RAM and 4 of the 8 cores enabled, but an extra GPU core enabled. Now imagine if they had unleashed […]
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Dominus wrote on 2020-06-30, 11:52:
appiah4 wrote on 2020-06-30, 11:28:
Mac Mini and surface pro x are completely different form factors, and the A12 in that Mac Mini is probably running at an uncompa […]
Show full quote

Mac Mini and surface pro x are completely different form factors, and the A12 in that Mac Mini is probably running at an uncomparable TDP limit.

EDIT: And I checked, of course the Surface Pro X is only 7W TDP while the regular Mac Mini can handle up to 28W TDP (4 times!!!). For all we know that A12 also had its thermal limits increased significantly. Garbage comparison is garbage.

For what it's worth, here is what a 15W Ryzen Mobile 4800U x86_64 can do in Geekbench:

ryzen-7-4800u-geekbench-testine-tabi-tutuldu117998_1.jpg

Apple can GTFO with their useless overpriced junk. Big core/small core shit belongs to the mobile and will die a terrible death on the desktop.

EDIT2: Another issue with the comparison is that Windows 10 on ARM is incredibly poorly optimized for the Big/Small core architecture, and thus running it native instead of through emulation does not even remotely have the kind of benefit you think it does.

Not to mention this is Apple's first BETA of the OS and a two years old underclocked chip that is nowhere what the actual desktop chip will be...

And the DTK has only 16GB of RAM and 4 of the 8 cores enabled, but an extra GPU core enabled. Now imagine if they had unleashed the full power of it + added a cooling system. It’d be bonkers and it’s a 2 yr old gen cpu!

And the DTK isnt even close to what the production units will be.

The A13 is supposedly 12-15% faster, so the future A14 that will in fact power the real ARM Macs will be absolute monsters.

I just need to know in which position we are in terms of virtualization/emulation of x86 OS. I need to keep my vintage VMs working and a W10 VM for a few modern games 😀

Now I will wait for the next chapters less worried than I was two weeks ago.

One point of worry is that Rosetta 2 likely won't be supported forever (if the first one is any indication). This means that, at some point in the future, third party virtualization software that allows an x86 guest to run on ARM MacOS with decent performance better be available (hopefully).