I just tried it in Dosbox, messing around with the settings a bit. It's definitely better than the last time I used it but still too slow and by far not as smooth as on the dedicated machine. It does make the game alot easier though, at this speed 🤣
Also I can not use both shift keys simultaneously, it will just ignore one of them. And there's a noticable delay between pressing the key and the flipper actually moving. And the vsync doesn't do anything. I don't think Dosbox is something for me...

Actually, the only time I ever seriously used Dosbox was to run the Transport Tycoon setup. It just refused to run on real dos, and I had to configure the sound devices in Dosbox and copy the config files over to the other machine 😀

rfnagel wrote:

Been using 800x600x32-bit (or 24-bit, depending on video card) since 1995 with Windows 3.11 WFWG (re: http://jasonwilliams400com.startlogic.com/sno … _486DX4-100.htm ) 😀

"You can't teach an old dog new tricks!"

🤣!

I only use 800x600 in games, mostly because of the 160Hz refresh rate. On the desktop I need 2048x1536, anything less and I start to feel claustrophobic 🤣

jwt27 wrote:

I just tried it in Dosbox, messing around with the settings a bit. It's definitely better than the last time I used it but still too slow and by far not as smooth as on the dedicated machine.

That's really weird, it runs fluidy smooth for me... to me it seems as smooth as when I used to run it on an AMD550MHz CPU booting up to a Windows 98SE DOS prompt (and IIRC, actually smoother than when I used to run it on my old 486DX4-100).

jwt27 wrote:

It does make the game alot easier though, at this speed 🤣

Heh, maybe THAT is my problem (meager high scores, because it's running too fast for my brain <grin>)... I suppose could reduce the "cycles" in my "DOSBox.conf" file 🤣!

jwt27 wrote:

Also I can not use both shift keys simultaneously, it will just ignore one of them. And there's a noticable delay between pressing the key and the flipper actually moving.

That's a strange one. More than likely it's probably the keyboard itself that's hooked up to that PC. As I'm sure that you know, lots of different keyboards have varying problems with simultaneously pressed keys.

That being said, there IS a known problem with Epic Pinball (and it's variants) with DOSBox, whereby the flippers will get "stuck" in their upwards postion. My previously posted Windows envrionment variable fixes that though (the "SDL_VIDEODRIVER=directx" part... which is that same thing as doing a "SET SDL_VIDEODRIVER = directx" from a command prompt, and then starting DOSBox FROM that actual command prompt).

jwt27 wrote:

On the desktop I need 2048x1536, anything less and I start to feel claustrophobic 🤣

Hehe, I ASSURE you, you would go blind at that video resolution on my aging 19" CRT monitor 🤣! 😀

Hey, I think I may have just broken... something? Possibly a SHIFT key...

rfnagel wrote:

That's really weird, it runs fluidy smooth for me... to me it seems as smooth as when I used to run it on an AMD550MHz CPU booting up to a Windows 98SE DOS prompt (and IIRC, actually smoother than when I used to run it on my old 486DX4-100).

I changed the cycles to "max" now and it does get better.. It's running a bit more smoothly now but still too slow.
And I just remembered, I still have a 386 here that just meets the minimum sytem requirements! I could try it on that and see what it does 😀

rfnagel wrote:

That's a strange one. More than likely it's probably the keyboard itself that's hooked up to that PC. As I'm sure that you know, lots of different keyboards have varying problems with simultaneously pressed keys.

That being said, there IS a known problem with Epic Pinball (and it's variants) with DOSBox, whereby the flippers will get "stuck" in their upwards postion. My previously posted Windows envrionment variable fixes that though (the "SDL_VIDEODRIVER=directx" part... which is that same thing as doing a "SET SDL_VIDEODRIVER = directx" from a command prompt, and then starting DOSBox FROM that actual command prompt).

Ah yes, that did fix it... I only added the variables while Dosbox was running and forgot to restart it...

VileRancour wrote:

Hey, I think I may have just broken... something? Possibly a SHIFT key...

WOW! 😳

You'd be on top of the list here:
http://cyberscore.me.uk/chart/99127

Even 200mln above the current high score!

Crazy thing is, I was over 600M when I lost ball 2 (extra ball included). This table is all about random timed events, and somehow the game kept spamming me with "shoot treasure for jackpot" which is an easy 40M.
I even started recording a video in DOSBox a little bit before that point, but of course my playing turned to shit as soon as the tape was rolling. 😁

Yes, scoring big points on Deep Sea relies completely on random events... and of course, the most amazing things always happen when nobody is looking 🤣

jwt27 wrote:

I changed the cycles to "max" now and it does get better.. It's running a bit more smoothly now but still too slow. And I just remembered, I still have a 386 here that just meets the minimum sytem requirements! I could try it on that and see what it does 😀

Please do 😀 I'd be really curious as to how the game performs on that PC 😀

jwt27 wrote:

Ah yes, that did fix it... I only added the variables while Dosbox was running and forgot to restart it...

Super 😀

VileRancour wrote:

Hey, I think I may have just broken... something? Possibly a SHIFT key...

As Jwt27 replied, you need to post that over at http://www.cyberscore.me.uk/chart/99127 😀

VileRancour wrote:

I even started recording a video in DOSBox a little bit before that point, but of course my playing turned to shit as soon as the tape was rolling. 😁

Hehe, it NEVER fails, does it? 🤣! Happens to me all the time, ESPECIALLY when MIDI sequencing (and doing real-time takes with my MIDI keyboard)... TOTALLY annoying <aarrgghh>!

rfnagel wrote:

BTW, just a heads-up: A few more games that have been recently added to CyberScore, requested by your's truly: ---snip---- Recen […]
Show full quote

BTW, just a heads-up: A few more games that have been recently added to CyberScore, requested by your's truly:
---snip----
Recently requested, but not added yet:

Bejeweled Deluxe - The original version for PC.

Bejeweled Blitz - The PC Windows version of the popular Facebook game.

Bejeweled 2 Deluxe - Additional scoreboards for the unlockable game modes.

...and they have been added 😀

Bejeweled Deluxe -> http://www.cyberscore.me.uk/game/1276

Bejeweled Blitz -> http://www.cyberscore.me.uk/game/1277

Bejeweled 2 Deluxe (Additional scoreboards for the unlockable game modes) -> http://www.cyberscore.me.uk/game/951

Just beat my own high score on Crash & Burn (249mln), and found a game breaking bug while doing so.

I managed to get multiball on the second ball, after that the left ramp broke somehow and every time I shot it there the ball just dropped through, outside the table. Lost all other balls this way...

jwt27 wrote:

Just beat my own high score on Crash & Burn (249mln), and found a game breaking bug while doing so.

I managed to get multiball on the second ball, after that the left ramp broke somehow and every time I shot it there the ball just dropped through, outside the table. Lost all other balls this way...

Man... now that's a WEIRD one! Hehe, I guess just like with real-life pinball machines, they can always break down 🤣!

(re: Balls Of Steel) BTW, this probably won't help me with my sorry scores (as much as I suck 🤣), but I DID just recently noticed one thing that was screwing up my "feel" for the game.

In most PC pinball games, the "nudge left" and "nudge right" keys are REFERING to:

"nudge FROM the left" and "nudge FROM the right", respectively.

In other words if I hit the "nudge left" key, that would be akin in real-life pinball to me PUSHING the pinball table with my left hand, FROM the left TOWARDS the RIGHT, and in essence JOLTING the pinball table to the RIGHT.

Almost all PC pinball games that I've ever played function like that.

That being said, Balls Of Steel is JUST THE OPPOSITE... "nudge left" means to nudge the BALL LEFT, and "nudge right" means to nudge the BALL RIGHT.

TOTALLY SCREWY in my book 🤣!

Anyhow, I simply redefined the keys to "/"="nudge left", and "z"="nudge right", and NOW it finally "feels" to me the same as the other PC pinball games 😀

BTW, just a heads-up... looks like the http://www.cyberscore.me.uk site is offline again <ugh> 🙁

I beat some of your scores on Silverball, hope you don't mind 🤣

And I fixed the shift keys on the Model M by the way. Some silicone spray did the trick 😀

jwt27 wrote:

I beat some of your scores on Silverball, hope you don't mind 🤣

Man, I'll never come CLOSE to your score <argh> 🤣! That being said, I'm looking forward to seeing your scores for SBP2's "Duel" pinball table... that table is a TOTAL #ITCH 🤣!

jwt27 wrote:

And I fixed the shift keys on the Model M by the way. Some silicone spray did the trick 😀

Unlike the above <grin>, glad to hear it 😀

Since you like pinball, have you used visual pinball emulator? It emulates actual pinball machines that were found in arcades. I remember wasting many hours and many quarters playing Silverball Mania and Eight Ball Deluxe when I was in school.

sliderider wrote:

Since you like pinball, have you used visual pinball emulator? It emulates actual pinball machines that were found in arcades.

I've never heard of that one before, I'll have to check it out 😀

BTW, just for clarification, is this what you're refering to -> http://sourceforge.net/projects/vpinball ?

Yes, that would appear to be it. You have to search out the tables separately, though. Like MAME ROMs, pinball machine designs are patented (or would it be trademarked?), whichever applies so they aren't included with the download. You're on your own for sourcing those.

sliderider wrote:

Yes, that would appear to be it. You have to search out the tables separately, though. Like MAME ROMs, pinball machine designs are patented (or would it be trademarked?), whichever applies so they aren't included with the download. You're on your own for sourcing those.

Will do, and thnaks for the heads-up! 😀

@All,

Something that I almost forgot about.... readme follows (also included in the attached ZIP):

"Epic Pinball" and "Extreme Pinball" Sound Driver Setup Sampling Rate Fix ------------------------------------------------------ […]
Show full quote

"Epic Pinball" and "Extreme Pinball" Sound Driver Setup Sampling Rate Fix
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are several errors in the "SETUP.INT" files that are included with "Epic Pinball" and "Extreme Pinball". These errors affect the digital sampling playback rate at which the sound effects and music are heard within these games.

There are several options for "Playback Quality" within the two games' sound driver setup utilities ("SETUP.EXE").

For "Epic Pinball", these "Playback Quality" options are:

* Ultra High Quality = 44,100 digital sampling playback rate
* Very High Quality = 32,100 digital sampling playback rate
* High Quality = 20,100 digital sampling playback rate
* Medium Quality = 12,100 digital sampling playback rate

For "Extreme Pinball", these "Playback Quality" options are:

* Ultra High Quality = 20,100 digital sampling playback rate
* Very High Quality = 20,100 digital sampling playback rate
* High Quality = 20,100 digital sampling playback rate

These digital sampling playback rates *SHOULD* be set to:

* Ultra High Quality = 44,100 digital sampling playback rate
* Very High Quality = 32,000 digital sampling playback rate
* High Quality = 20,050 digital sampling playback rate
* Medium Quality = 11,025 digital sampling playback rate

...which are standard digital sampling playback rates for most all models of sound cards. Note that "Extreme Pinball" is the most affected by the errors mentioned above, as the digital sampling playback rates are *ALL* set to the relatively low quality of 20,100.

Included are replacement hex-edited "SETUP.INT" files that correct these errors as detailed above.

To install, simply copy the included respective "SETUP.INT" file to the "EPICPIN" and "EXTREME" game installation directories on your hard drive (overwriting the original files). Lastly, run the sound driver setup utilities ("SETUP.EXE") for the two games, and then reselect the games' sound driver and "Playback Quality".

ENJOY!

Rich ¥Weeds¥ Nagel
[72672,1450]

sliderider wrote:

Since you like pinball, have you used visual pinball emulator? It emulates actual pinball machines that were found in arcades. I remember wasting many hours and many quarters playing Silverball Mania and Eight Ball Deluxe when I was in school.

I've seen that mentioned somewhere before, and I believe I have also found a few Epic Pinball tables remade for that simulator (or maybe another, I did a quick google and there are more of these)

I'll give it a try, sounds cool!

rfnagel wrote:

@All,

Something that I almost forgot about.... readme follows (also included in the attached ZIP):
[...]

I suppose the 44kHz rate only works on an SB16? A card with SBPro2 interface can only do 22kHz in stereo IIRC.

Now that you bring this up, I noticed in Silverball the sound is quite distorted. It sounds a bit like "crackling". Like it's skipping samples or something. I don't think it's clipping.
In the menu it's noticable but not too bad, same when starting a game, but once the ball is launched it gets worse quickly. And that sucks. The best part of these games is the cool music of course 🤣

Also in Silverball, I found that many of the tables have a very low angle by default. If you set it to "high" it makes the ball behave a bit more predictable.

And.. what is that [72672,1450] down there in the readme? I've seen that on some of your other files but I have no idea what it means.

jwt27 wrote:

I suppose the 44kHz rate only works on an SB16?

Yes, that would only apply to the SB16.

jwt27 wrote:

A card with SBPro2 interface can only do 22kHz in stereo IIRC.

Yes, true. But the corrected sampling rates will make those sound a wee bit better as well. I really don't know why Epic MegaGames used those screwball sampling rates... the corrected ones are standards for all sound cards.

jwt27 wrote:

Now that you bring this up, I noticed in Silverball the sound is quite distorted. It sounds a bit like "crackling". Like it's skipping samples or something. I don't think it's clipping. In the menu it's noticable but not too bad, same when starting a game, but once the ball is launched it gets worse quickly. And that sucks. The best part of these games is the cool music of course 🤣

That is because that Silverball/Plus 2 (as well as the *original* Epic Pinball shareware "Android" table) uses the older/original MASI sound drivers (the sound engine by Joshua Jenson).

That is something that has drove me NUTZ about Silverball since day-one (the static sounding low quality, AS WELL as the REVERSED STEREO <ugh>). Nothing can be done about that though... I've surely devoted a ton of time myself trying to hex-edit a fix for that, but never had any luck.

Hehe, and don't think that you can simply copy over the needed "PIN*.*" files and such over from SB to the newer (better sounding) Epic Pinball... it crashes hard as a rock 🤣!

jwt27 wrote:

Also in Silverball, I found that many of the tables have a very low angle by default. If you set it to "high" it makes the ball behave a bit more predictable.

Yes, anytime that you run/re-run SETUP.EXE, it resets the table angles. I myself simply use normal; as, well... "normal" is NORMAL I figure 🤣! 😀

jwt27 wrote:

And.. what is that [72672,1450] down there in the readme? I've seen that on some of your other files but I have no idea what it means.

Hehe, that my friend was WELL BEFORE Al Gore "invented the internet"... simply my old CompuServe user ID, WAY before there was these newfangled things called "the Internet", and "email addresses" <grin> 😀

rfnagel wrote:

That is because that Silverball/Plus 2 (as well as the *original* Epic Pinball shareware "Android" table) uses the older/original MASI sound drivers (the sound engine by Joshua Jenson).

That is something that has drove me NUTZ about Silverball since day-one (the static sounding low quality, AS WELL as the REVERSED STEREO <ugh>). Nothing can be done about that though... I've surely devoted a ton of time myself trying to hex-edit a fix for that, but never had any luck.

Hehe, and don't think that you can simply copy over the needed "PIN*.*" files and such over from SB to the newer (better sounding) Epic Pinball... it crashes hard as a rock 🤣!

So it sounded like that when it was first released? That is pretty bad. At least it's good to hear it's not some soundcard incompatibility or my cpu being too fast, 🤣.

The reverse stereo is a bit annoying but not that much. You could just wear your headphones the other way around 🤣
In Epic Pinball the stereo seems to reverse randomly on my system, for some reason. I was thinking of making a switch on the soundcard just for that, hehe.

rfnagel wrote:

Hehe, that my friend was WELL BEFORE Al Gore "invented the internet"... simply my old CompuServe user ID, WAY before there was these newfangled things called "the Internet", and "email addresses" <grin> 😀

Ah! I'm a bit too young to remember that. Plus I don't live in the US, I don't think Compuserve was around here back then.