Yes, that was a disgrace

cyclone3d wrote on 2020-11-13, 21:26:

Hmmm... I've had to replace screens as HDDs in MACs before. There is also the issue of their current-ish laptop keyboards breaki […]
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Hmmm... I've had to replace screens as HDDs in MACs before. There is also the issue of their current-ish laptop keyboards breaking if the get a bit of dust under the keys. There was/is a big fuss about this. Not sure if they have fixed this with a new design yet or not.

Some phone examples -
iPhone 7 - widespread rear camera issues. The shutter dies.
My wife's iPhone 6 had to have the home button replaced under warranty because it messed up. Wouldn't click properly any more.
iPhone 6 battery issue where Apple decided to throttle the phone speed to mask the battery issues. Apple ended up having a special $39 battery replacement for these for about a year. There was a big stink about the battery issue and that is the only reason that Apple ended up having that battery replacement deal.

You can't just say it all comes down to good maintenance because that simply isn't true.

Every company has some lemons and some excellent products.

And for some more anecdotal stuff, we have some 8+ year old Dell laptops still in use where I work.

I have some even older ones here at home that still work fine.

well what can I say. Different experiences. My case I never had an issue with my Macs, iPhones and iPads. Everything worked flawlessly. I can only think (and insist) that it depends of who are using them and for what.

So if a breadcrumb got under a key, you would have to replace the entire keyboard? That's the most Apple thing I've ever heard.

Errius wrote on 2020-11-14, 03:09:

So if a breadcrumb got under a key, you would have to replace the entire keyboard? That's the most Apple thing I've ever heard.

Very poor(virtually none)liquid spill protection as well. Also means the round liquid indicators inside the system go pink without any spillage at all.

Okay, let's settle this once and for all. Alert the tech media: given Apple's immense confidence in the iPad, and by decree of Mr. Intel486dx33 and Mr. Bruninho, Apple corporate has agreed that I will visit their campus over the Christmas break and carry out the difficult work. I will remove all computers of any brand/model, and will issue to each employee one A14-powered iPad, one Apple-branded keyboard and one Apple Pencil. Starting January 1, 2021, all Apple business will be effected on said iPad units using only current, publicly-available versions of iPad OS and "apps"; from marketing to software development, and from IC design to schematic capture and board layout. Any employee found to have used any other software or "computer" will be summarily fired.

Furthermore, given the unparalleled power of the A14 and outstanding signal quality of the AirPort Extreme, Mr. Cook will announce shortly that all fibre is scheduled to be removed from Apple-owned and sub-contracted data centres. All servers will also be replaced with A14-powered iPads running stock software, storage and battery configuration, all interconnected via Apple base stations and built-in Wi-Fi. External connectivity will be provided by stunningly-fast AT&T 5G wireless service. "This proves that the 'what's a computer' commercial was more than just marketing", said Mr. Cook, as he explained that this will usher in a new level of productivity, power-efficiency and creativity for Apple, while also proving to the world that, not just the post-PC era, but the post-computer era has arrived.

</sardonic-nonsense>

I like it 640K!enough. 🤣

For the record I do really like the iPad. My parents have one, and they lend me it when I travel internationally. It's really nice to use in airport lounges, cafes and airplanes - far preferable to conventional laptops. (They also have a MS Surface which they bought at the same time, but I prefer the iPad.)

Errius wrote on 2020-11-14, 03:09:

So if a breadcrumb got under a key, you would have to replace the entire keyboard? That's the most Apple thing I've ever heard.

Actually, the repair method is to replace the top case (since the keyboard is integrated into it) - it’s not really unique to the Apple - Samsung has been doing it on their Series 9 notebooks going back to 2011.

Also, the same thing happens on the Dell XPS13s (shallow key press, poor resilience to crumbs and dirt jamming their mechanisms), and repairing them also involves practically taking the machine apart, taking out the system board and removing thirty (30) screws to replace the keyboard. And heaven help you if you cheap out on a 1 year depot-only warranty when you first pick up the machine. The apples get more attention in the tech press but it’s by no means the only tech firm with keyboard design issues.

wiretap wrote on 2020-11-11, 17:25:

Years ago I picked up a Winbook TW801 -- it works well for general tablet purposes. I have a folio keyboard case for it. I rarely use it anymore except for when I travel via plane to business related functions. It is smaller than a laptop, but still features a full OS. The CPU isn't fast, but it gets the job done for business related web functions and some of the corporate apps I need that are Windows based. I paid around $100 for it.

I'm sure there are plenty of newer tablets like this out there in the $100-$300 price range. Probably give Aliexpress or TaoBao a look. They are more popular in Asian markets.

Oh yeah - I have a Lenovo Miix 2 8 from 2013 that works just fine with a Bluetooth keyboard/trackpad set - only 8 inches and gets most of the stuff done. I am sure there are also the old Asus T100TA 10 inch 2-in-ones that works just fine for that purpose.

ragefury32 wrote on 2020-11-14, 09:33:

Errius wrote on 2020-11-14, 03:09:

So if a breadcrumb got under a key, you would have to replace the entire keyboard? That's the most Apple thing I've ever heard.

Actually, the repair method is to replace the top case (since the keyboard is integrated into it) - it’s not really unique to the Apple - Samsung has been doing it on their Series 9 notebooks going back to 2011.

Also, the same thing happens on the Dell XPS13s (shallow key press, poor resilience to crumbs and dirt jamming their mechanisms), and repairing them also involves practically taking the machine apart, taking out the system board and removing thirty (30) screws to replace the keyboard. And heaven help you if you cheap out on a 1 year depot-only warranty when you first pick up the machine. The apples get more attention in the tech press but it’s by no means the only tech firm with keyboard design issues.

It was Apples entire laptop range for five years. Not one model.

A nice little recap of the whole clusterfuck https://www.theverge.com/2020/5/4/21246223/ma … ro-apple-design

Apple's design has always been garbage in multiple ways.

Just today I was attempting an iPhone 5 screen replacement, when I realized that the new screen cannot fit, because the phone fell victim to the common "battery gets bloated and pushes the screen up until it pops out" syndrome.

Apparently, defective batteries happen due to "user error". 🤣

dr_st wrote on 2020-11-14, 18:11:

Apple's design has always been garbage in multiple ways.

Just today I was attempting an iPhone 5 screen replacement, when I realized that the new screen cannot fit, because the phone fell victim to the common "battery gets bloated and pushes the screen up until it pops out" syndrome.

Apparently, defective batteries happen due to "user error". 🤣

Oh come on... This is really a cheap blow that has nothing to do with Apple but the way batteries work. The iPhone 5 was released 8 years ago. Batteries like to bloat over time, especially after that long...

I like a good discussion but please keep it interesting instead of cheap shots that don't have any meaning

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-11-14, 16:58:

ragefury32 wrote on 2020-11-14, 09:33:

Errius wrote on 2020-11-14, 03:09:

So if a breadcrumb got under a key, you would have to replace the entire keyboard? That's the most Apple thing I've ever heard.

Actually, the repair method is to replace the top case (since the keyboard is integrated into it) - it’s not really unique to the Apple - Samsung has been doing it on their Series 9 notebooks going back to 2011.

Also, the same thing happens on the Dell XPS13s (shallow key press, poor resilience to crumbs and dirt jamming their mechanisms), and repairing them also involves practically taking the machine apart, taking out the system board and removing thirty (30) screws to replace the keyboard. And heaven help you if you cheap out on a 1 year depot-only warranty when you first pick up the machine. The apples get more attention in the tech press but it’s by no means the only tech firm with keyboard design issues.

It was Apples entire laptop range for five years. Not one model.

I never said it was one model - it was the same general butterfly design across 3 iterations, and their repair process is generally the same across the entire product range - replace the top case. Once again, this type of design is not an Apple-only trait.

However, my point still stands - Apple does not have a monopoly on bad designs. If you think only Apple designs are garbage, you haven’t had day-to-day experiences dealing with PCs from the likes of Dells or Lenovo and their myriad of issues, or you are pleading bliss through ignorance.

An entire generation of Dell Vostros and Inspirons require practically a strip down to swap out hard drives and do RAM upgrades. The Latitude 7470/80/90s are well known for bad battery chemistry that causes them to swell after only 2 years of use. Modern XPS and Latitudes are also impacted by TPM modules disappearing and requiring a battery disconnect/reconnect to bring them back to life (assuming that they can be resuscitated). Dell XPS with NVMe driver issues causing them to BSOD within 5 minutes of boot up when upgraded to Windows 10 1903.
Lenovo X1 Extremes have audio issues that causes their microphones to cut out randomly. The X1 Carbons have USB-C controllers that randomly drop connections to USB-C docking stations seemingly at random and require a hard reset to bring it back to work.

I can go on and on about PC manufacturers screwing the pooch on their designs, touching on execution, design and conceptual failings.

Dominus wrote on 2020-11-14, 18:25:

Oh come on... This is really a cheap blow that has nothing to do with Apple but the way batteries work. The iPhone 5 was released 8 years ago. Batteries like to bloat over time, especially after that long...

This indeed can happen to batteries over time. However, the fact that a bloated battery pushes against another component to actually cause physical deformation, and eventually break that component? Well, I never had anything like this happen to me on any other phone, tablet or laptop. So, no, Apple is not free of blame here. Maybe they should have used a better case for the battery?

Happens all the time, or rather I had this happen with other devices. A Sony camera, Logitech universal remote, HP TC1000 "Tablet"...
Give it a picture search and you can see affected Androids as well...
I wonder how you'd want to secure a phone that a swelling battery doesn't destroy stuff...

Speaking of batteries, my iPhone X is still holding strong since 2017. battery charge lasts an entire day since day one. More than enough for me. *shrugs*

The 2017 iPad Pro battery holds way longer. I bought the iPhone in USA and the iPad in UK months before.

dr_st wrote on 2020-11-14, 21:00:

Dominus wrote on 2020-11-14, 18:25:

Oh come on... This is really a cheap blow that has nothing to do with Apple but the way batteries work. The iPhone 5 was released 8 years ago. Batteries like to bloat over time, especially after that long...

This indeed can happen to batteries over time. However, the fact that a bloated battery pushes against another component to actually cause physical deformation, and eventually break that component? Well, I never had anything like this happen to me on any other phone, tablet or laptop. So, no, Apple is not free of blame here. Maybe they should have used a better case for the battery?

Oh yeah - it can totally happen. I have had Dell Latitude 7470s and 7480s bulge and deform their chassis (the ones that I’ve seen happening actually did that even before their 3 year warranties run out). I’ve also had Samsung Galaxy S6s and Motorola cellphones do that very thing.
Bulging batteries causing chassis distortion/damage is not a new phenomenon.

battery deformation happened to me once with a cochlear americas battery, one of the four batteries I use in my cochlear implant. I still don’t know how but probably happened during recharge.

Caluser2000 wrote on 2020-11-14, 03:54:

Errius wrote on 2020-11-14, 03:09:

So if a breadcrumb got under a key, you would have to replace the entire keyboard? That's the most Apple thing I've ever heard.

Very poor(virtually none)liquid spill protection as well. Also means the round liquid indicators inside the system go pink without any spillage at all.

So tell me as I am keen to know...with the exception of machines with MIL-STD 810G and H certification (like Panasonic Toughbooks, some ThinkPads, EliteBooks and Dell Latitudes),
which one of your standard PC laptops have liquid damage protection that isn’t very poor?