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Reply 440 of 467, by TheMobRules

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schmatzler wrote on 2022-03-28, 21:35:
DOOM: Eternal. […]
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DOOM: Eternal.

The mechanics of DOOM 2016 were just perfect. For the new game they changed the keyboard layout and introduced this damn pick-up mechanic and you absolutely have to use the chainsaw all the time to progress.

It just feels like too much at once. The first game was a challenge, the second one feels like a chore with all of the things you have to do. And also...what is that ridiculous plot with the weird space fortress?

Yeah, yeah I know...git gud. But ain't nobody got time fo dat.

Same. Also I really dislike how most of the combat is limited to these "arena" sections rather than integrate the enemies and their placement to the level design like the originals... I know the 2016 remake is also guilty of this, but Eternal doubled down on it! Having to fight wave after wave of enemies really gets on my nerves after a while, I think it should be reserved to specific scenarios in these kinds of games.

Incidentally, a while back I watched a video by Sandy Petersen in his YouTube channel where he expressed his concerns about the game and the comments were full of Doom Eternal fans basically saying that this was just an old man that doesn't know what DOOM is about. These "fans" are a really strange bunch.

Reply 441 of 467, by dormcat

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Of all games that I have spent money to purchase, Merchant Colony was the game I played the least. I was -- and still am -- fascinated by Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon and Civilization so I thought a game with similar elements could be fun. I was wrong.

With the exception of financial reports on the main screen (player's office), the interface relied heavily on textless icons, making it very difficult to navigate, particularly on the world map. It's not uncommon that at some tradable harbors the price of raw material (sugar cane, tobacco, coffee beans, iron ore, cotton, coconuts, livestock) is on par or even higher than respective processed products (sugar, cigars, coffee, steel, rugs, rum, meat) AT THE SAME HARBOR.

The animation of a ship entering harbor was very nice looking by then standard; I wonder if all the efforts were invested on that alone.

There's a "remastered version" known as High Seas Trader developed by the same Impressions Games and has more polished but still familiar interface. I'd rather stay with remastered Colonization (using Civ4's engine) and Pirates!

Reply 442 of 467, by Dolenc

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I also preffered 2016 one, for its feel of being a game, not just a series of arenas.

While the combat is better in eternal, lore is expanded, but it just felt a bit too... Heres a place, kill everyone, ok heres another place, do some platforming, now another place, we gonna drop some lore on you, oh look another arena. Combas is better, though I wasnt really complaining in 2016, got a good mix of speed and control. Also no mp, 2016, when you can get players, is great.

Reply 443 of 467, by BitWrangler

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Simon The Sorcerer... it looked great and was amusing, but the whole environment was maybe only 5 screens wide, and once you'd got past the obtuseness of the puzzles (Gold isn't magnetic!) it was relatively short, with no replay value. IDK if some decades later I might have forgotten enough to make it a little diverting again. But yeah it seemed like it should have been level 1 of something a lot bigger. It could probably be implemented as a text adventure on a low RAM 8 bit, with a few static pics. (VIC 20 or something)

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 444 of 467, by Kahenraz

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dormcat wrote on 2022-03-28, 22:28:

Of all games that I have spent money to purchase, Merchant Colony was the game I played the least. I was -- and still am -- fascinated by Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon and Civilization so I thought a game with similar elements could be fun. I was wrong.

If you're a fan of Civilization, try Sid Meier's Colonization. It's a very interesting take on the same theme with a very interesting historical twist. I really enjoyed it. I the graphics are a little chunky, but you'll get used to it after a while.

Reply 445 of 467, by appiah4

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Kahenraz wrote on 2022-03-29, 02:59:
dormcat wrote on 2022-03-28, 22:28:

Of all games that I have spent money to purchase, Merchant Colony was the game I played the least. I was -- and still am -- fascinated by Sid Meier's Railroad Tycoon and Civilization so I thought a game with similar elements could be fun. I was wrong.

If you're a fan of Civilization, try Sid Meier's Colonization. It's a very interesting take on the same theme with a very interesting historical twist. I really enjoyed it. I the graphics are a little chunky, but you'll get used to it after a while.

Real story, Sid Meier did not make Colonization. It is a great game though.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-03-30, 03:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 446 of 467, by dr_st

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schmatzler wrote on 2022-03-28, 21:35:
DOOM: Eternal. […]
Show full quote

DOOM: Eternal.

The mechanics of DOOM 2016 were just perfect. For the new game they changed the keyboard layout and introduced this damn pick-up mechanic and you absolutely have to use the chainsaw all the time to progress.

It just feels like too much at once. The first game was a challenge, the second one feels like a chore with all of the things you have to do. And also...what is that ridiculous plot with the weird space fortress?

Yeah, yeah I know...git gud. But ain't nobody got time fo dat.

Oh great, and I was planning to play it at some point, having enjoyed Doom (2016). Now I have to wonder if I'll be disappointed too. 🙁

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-28, 22:44:

Simon The Sorcerer... it looked great and was amusing, but the whole environment was maybe only 5 screens wide, and once you'd got past the obtuseness of the puzzles (Gold isn't magnetic!) it was relatively short, with no replay value.

5 screens wide? That is a pretty gross exaggeration. I mean - look at here which has a convenient map. There are more than 50 screens, not counting the part once you get into the tower (which is shorter than the main game, but still has a bit gameplay in it). It certainly did not feel shorter than The Secret of Monkey Island.

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-28, 22:44:

But yeah it seemed like it should have been level 1 of something a lot bigger.

There is also Simon the Sorcerer 2, which is pretty much the same graphics and mechanics, and I think is a bit longer than the first game.

BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-28, 22:44:

It could probably be implemented as a text adventure on a low RAM 8 bit, with a few static pics. (VIC 20 or something)

Could be, sure, but would lose a lot of its appeal. The graphics are lovely, including some of the background animations.

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Reply 447 of 467, by dormcat

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Kahenraz wrote on 2022-03-29, 02:59:

If you're a fan of Civilization, try Sid Meier's Colonization. It's a very interesting take on the same theme with a very interesting historical twist. I really enjoyed it. I the graphics are a little chunky, but you'll get used to it after a while.

Oh come on, you think I'd miss it? 😆 I had the original as well as the remastered (Civ4 engine) edition; a pity that I didn't pick up the Windows 3.1/95 edition when I saw it in a bargain bin in San Diego, CA back in 1999. It has the high quality CD audio version of the background music, far better than the FM synth of the original (unless you've got MT-32).

Reply 448 of 467, by Kahenraz

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appiah4 wrote on 2022-03-29, 05:41:

Real story, Sid Meier did not make Colonization. It is a great game though.

Oh, really? I didn't know this.

dormcat wrote on 2022-03-29, 06:35:

Oh come on, you think I'd miss it? 😆

I always have to ask. It feels like kind of an odd title, even though it has similar roots to Civilization.

Last edited by Stiletto on 2022-03-30, 03:37. Edited 1 time in total.

Reply 449 of 467, by BitWrangler

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dr_st wrote on 2022-03-29, 06:25:

5 screens wide? That is a pretty gross exaggeration. I mean - look at here which has a convenient map. There are more than 50 screens, not counting the part once you get into the tower (which is shorter than the main game, but still has a bit gameplay in it). It certainly did not feel shorter than The Secret of Monkey Island.

Maybe it seemed like that to me because of doing a lot of back and forth in the same areas, whereas some of the other locations were do one thing and leave and not have to go back. Also I feel like some of those location on the map are actually different parts of some single screens that you couldn't access until you'd done something else. Maybe it was more that while there was some more complex puzzle solving a lot of it seemed to go along on rails.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 450 of 467, by Carrera

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DracoNihil wrote on 2022-03-28, 15:36:

I mean, there's plenty of cutscenes in I76 where they're out of the car discussing whatever. There's even scenes in the intro that never actually happen in the TRIP. (and also depict the other hand weapons that were never implemented)

Being able to bail out of a car and get into another one was a rather nice feature, at least.

Never get out of the car was the last line in the game and Yes... it was in the intro but that was the point.. had she stayed in the car she might have survived ....
I do agree car jacking is good shouldn't be a major part of the game play...

Reply 451 of 467, by Shreddoc

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I assume somebody's mentioned Ocean's DOS port of Street Fighter 2, during the course of this thread.

It deserves another mention.

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Every jump sloowwwllyyy flooooaaaats your character up out the top of the screen like a helium balloon, at the port's glacial framerate. (yup, there are 2 players in the above screenshot)

Back in '93, it would have been the most disappointing thing in the world, if not for the prior existence of the bootleg Korean version we all already had. Still, it stung. Making an utterly excremental version of what was, at that time, the biggest game in the world - turning it into an embarrassment for the DOS platform - was a heck of a faux pas.

Meanwhile, free coders were doing things like Second Reality.... 🤣

Reply 452 of 467, by BitWrangler

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I wasn't much into those kinda games but IIRC Mortal Kombat for DOS actually ran well on quite low hardware, but the controls sucked a bit.

Unicorn herding operations are proceeding, but all the totes of hens teeth and barrels of rocking horse poop give them plenty of hiding spots.

Reply 453 of 467, by Shreddoc

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BitWrangler wrote on 2022-03-30, 21:09:

I wasn't much into those kinda games but IIRC Mortal Kombat for DOS actually ran well on quite low hardware, but the controls sucked a bit.

Hell yeah.

MK for DOS was awesome. I remember it like it was yesterday (the fact it's been just under 30 years, "not annoying at all!"), having been an avid young arcade hound and PC gamer when it came out. The controls were, yep, keyboard-land in a fightstick world, but back then anything that wasn't QAOP was OK, right? 😉 Fact remains that, in context of the times, it was a damn accurate and impressive port.

(Further general pontification: .....) As with any such quality port (and the PC had a few at the time, from Golden Axe to Raiden to Mortal Kombat and others) - to be a teenager, going from a barely-affordable $0.20-0.50 per short-lived game at the arcade, to the sudden utopia of unlimited play at home on a quality port, was one of the official great experiences of the 1990s. Good times!

Reply 454 of 467, by gaffa2002

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schmatzler wrote on 2022-03-28, 21:35:
DOOM: Eternal. […]
Show full quote

DOOM: Eternal.

The mechanics of DOOM 2016 were just perfect. For the new game they changed the keyboard layout and introduced this damn pick-up mechanic and you absolutely have to use the chainsaw all the time to progress.

It just feels like too much at once. The first game was a challenge, the second one feels like a chore with all of the things you have to do. And also...what is that ridiculous plot with the weird space fortress?

Yeah, yeah I know...git gud. But ain't nobody got time fo dat.

My feelings exactly!
To be fair the game gets quite enjoyable after some point. But, like you said, only after getting used to the crapload of upgrades, mechanics and collectibles tossed at you all the time. Oh, and the ridiculously low ammo you have before upgrading.
If I had anything better to do at the time, then I would probably have abandoned it.

LO-RES, HI-FUN

My DOS/ Win98 PC specs

EP-7KXA Motherboard
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Geforce 4 MX440 64MB AGP (128 bit)
Sound Blaster AWE 64 CT4500 (ISA)
32GB HDD

Reply 455 of 467, by appiah4

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Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-30, 20:04:
I assume somebody's mentioned Ocean's DOS port of Street Fighter 2, during the course of this thread. […]
Show full quote

I assume somebody's mentioned Ocean's DOS port of Street Fighter 2, during the course of this thread.

It deserves another mention.

theyallfloatdownhere.jpg

Every jump sloowwwllyyy flooooaaaats your character up out the top of the screen like a helium balloon, at the port's glacial framerate. (yup, there are 2 players in the above screenshot)

Back in '93, it would have been the most disappointing thing in the world, if not for the prior existence of the bootleg Korean version we all already had. Still, it stung. Making an utterly excremental version of what was, at that time, the biggest game in the world - turning it into an embarrassment for the DOS platform - was a heck of a faux pas.

Meanwhile, free coders were doing things like Second Reality.... 🤣

Still not worse than the Amiga port.

Retronautics: A digital gallery of my retro computers, hardware and projects.

Reply 456 of 467, by dr_st

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Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-30, 22:12:

MK for DOS was awesome. I remember it like it was yesterday (the fact it's been just under 30 years, "not annoying at all!"), having been an avid young arcade hound and PC gamer when it came out. The controls were, yep, keyboard-land in a fightstick world, but back then anything that wasn't QAOP was OK, right? 😉 Fact remains that, in context of the times, it was a damn accurate and impressive port.

Indeed! And so were MK2 and MK3. Best home conversions of the respective games, hands down, ahead of any console. More fun is the fact that MK's control scheme which involves a lot of tapping, and few circular motions, makes the keyboard actually the second-best control method following an arcade stick. Gamepads suck for MK.

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-30, 22:12:

(Further general pontification: .....) As with any such quality port (and the PC had a few at the time, from Golden Axe to Raiden to Mortal Kombat and others) - to be a teenager, going from a barely-affordable $0.20-0.50 per short-lived game at the arcade, to the sudden utopia of unlimited play at home on a quality port, was one of the official great experiences of the 1990s. Good times!

Agreed! I really loved the DOS Golden Axe, although it is too dependent on the system timer. Outside of the optimal clock range, not only it runs too fast or too slow, but the computer-controlled enemies range from a joke to unbeatable.

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-30, 20:04:

I assume somebody's mentioned Ocean's DOS port of Street Fighter 2, during the course of this thread.

It deserves another mention.

I wonder how many people skipped the awesome Eurocom SSF2T port, because of how bad that SF2 port was...

https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/ - Random content on hardware, software, games and toys

Reply 457 of 467, by Shreddoc

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dr_st wrote on 2022-03-31, 11:33:
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-30, 22:12:

MK for DOS was awesome. I remember it like it was yesterday (the fact it's been just under 30 years, "not annoying at all!"), having been an avid young arcade hound and PC gamer when it came out. The controls were, yep, keyboard-land in a fightstick world, but back then anything that wasn't QAOP was OK, right? 😉 Fact remains that, in context of the times, it was a damn accurate and impressive port.

Indeed! And so were MK2 and MK3. Best home conversions of the respective games, hands down, ahead of any console. More fun is the fact that MK's control scheme which involves a lot of tapping, and few circular motions, makes the keyboard actually the second-best control method following an arcade stick. Gamepads suck for MK.

Totally. A recent trend towards so-called 'hitbox' style controllers shows how, in some ways, the precise nature of keypresses can be extremely mechanically efficient.

For example, no matter how good I get (and I'm not very good 🤣 ), I still can't do a Dragon Punch on my Sanwa joystick as efficiently as I could insta-tap out Forward-Down-Forward arrow keys in my youth on the PC keyboard.

(with a keyboard, it's the moves requiring a full spin that you get you going!)

dr_st wrote on 2022-03-31, 11:33:
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-30, 22:12:

(Further general pontification: .....) As with any such quality port (and the PC had a few at the time, from Golden Axe to Raiden to Mortal Kombat and others) - to be a teenager, going from a barely-affordable $0.20-0.50 per short-lived game at the arcade, to the sudden utopia of unlimited play at home on a quality port, was one of the official great experiences of the 1990s. Good times!

Agreed! I really loved the DOS Golden Axe, although it is too dependent on the system timer. Outside of the optimal clock range, not only it runs too fast or too slow, but the computer-controlled enemies range from a joke to unbeatable.

True, I remember now that you mention it. It's been a very long time since I visited the port. But many many hours were spent exploring every area of it, back then. I'll never forget the sprite swapping fun (by primitive method of simply swapping character files). Beating Golden Axe as Death Adder is a rare notch in the old CV, haha.

dr_st wrote on 2022-03-31, 11:33:
Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-30, 20:04:

I assume somebody's mentioned Ocean's DOS port of Street Fighter 2, during the course of this thread.

It deserves another mention.

I wonder how many people skipped the awesome Eurocom SSF2T port, because of how bad that SF2 port was...

I did buy SSF2T big box at the time of release (casually lost into the sands of time shortly thereafter, unfortunately) and it was very good. The entire package was impressive. It just came a bit too late, and at an awkward sophomore time in the scene. The original SF2 port wouldn't have helped either, that's for sure. The PC killed off it's chances in the mainstream fight game scene for awhile there, despite the odd really great port.

Reply 458 of 467, by TheMobRules

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One thing that annoyed me even more than the atrocious, floaty and unresponsive combat in the SF2 PC port was the fact that all the fights had the same music! The original game had an amazing soundtrack but they only used 2 or 3 tracks, what a complete disaster. I was a massive fan of fighting games at the time and this port soured me on Street Fighter for a while, especially considering the excellent MK ports that came after.

And if we're talking about fighting games and disappointments there's one thing that comes to mind: RISE OF THE ROBOTS. Although I think that one would classify more as a scam with all the paid hype from gaming magazines and glowing scores. I was really looking forward to that one, and when I got it I couldn't believe how abysmally bad it was...

Reply 459 of 467, by dr_st

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Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-31, 22:42:

Totally. A recent trend towards so-called 'hitbox' style controllers shows how, in some ways, the precise nature of keypresses can be extremely mechanically efficient.

For example, no matter how good I get (and I'm not very good 🤣 ), I still can't do a Dragon Punch on my Sanwa joystick as efficiently as I could insta-tap out Forward-Down-Forward arrow keys in my youth on the PC keyboard.

(with a keyboard, it's the moves requiring a full spin that you get you going!)

Yes, and specifically it is not the spin itself that does it (e.g., I can do Liu Kang's F-D-B-U-F-D fatality rather easily with the keyboard), but the diagonals. Something that Street Fighter series is notorious for.

I actually think a keyboard could shine even there, if the programmers of DOS ports bothered to implement 1,3,7,9 buttons on the keypad as diagonal inputs, but most of them did not. Fortunately, MAME now makes this possible.

I once wrote down my general thoughts on the matter, here:
https://cloakedthargoid.wordpress.com/keyboards-vs-gamepads/

Shreddoc wrote on 2022-03-31, 22:42:

True, I remember now that you mention it. It's been a very long time since I visited the port. But many many hours were spent exploring every area of it, back then. I'll never forget the sprite swapping fun (by primitive method of simply swapping character files). Beating Golden Axe as Death Adder is a rare notch in the old CV, haha.

Love that hack. The best part is that if you change yourself to one of the bizarrians (CHICKEN.SPR / DRAGON.SPR) - you can go through the game being invulnerable (short of falling into a pit). But you cannot cast magic (I seem to remember only BIGGUY.SPR and EVILLADY.SPR can).

TheMobRules wrote on 2022-03-31, 23:20:

One thing that annoyed me even more than the atrocious, floaty and unresponsive combat in the SF2 PC port was the fact that all the fights had the same music! The original game had an amazing soundtrack but they only used 2 or 3 tracks, what a complete disaster.

Another good thing about the SSF2T DOS port is redbook audio in the CD version. The music sounds even better than in the arcade. However, it does not loop as well due to track-swapping mechanics.

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