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Reply 40 of 94, by Pippy P. Poopypants

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Tetrium wrote:
God, that's one of the things I don't really like about modern day shooters -_- […]
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GXL750 wrote:

Pippy, your chart left out the achievements.

God, that's one of the things I don't really like about modern day shooters -_-

When I play a shooter, I just want to frag stuff, not spend 8 more hours farming XP...I mean career points just so I can have ONE more unlock -_-

What I did like more about the old shooters is that all that made you different from the rest was your reputation. When they saw me logging in, they knew they could get in trouble (Not trying to be an a-hole here, but I'm pretty good with shooters, though the main focus for me is FUN, not trying to pwn people) simply because they saw my name.

Nowdays it's more about rewards and k/d ratio. You can't really do something messy without it messing up your stats, but oh well, I can live with it ;)

lol, exactly. Personally I could care less for achievements or score points. For FPS games mindless shooting is all I desire. Simple, straightforward gameplay without cutscenes interrupting every minute. The 3D GTA series, though, had this degree of freedom to an extent, as you could play and complete the game pretty much any way you wanted (as long as it involves harming other NPCs). Maybe I'm just too simple-minded and easily bored, but I like things kept as simple as possible. Any game with a high learning curve just gets turned into a snoozefest in my world. :)

Reply 42 of 94, by swaaye

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Postal 2's plotline is pretty hilarious assuming you aren't one of the people susceptible to being insulted by the game. 😉

And really there is no shortage of variety in shooters today.
-team based multiplayer
-deathmatch / ctf / etc
-tower defense
-corridor shooter
-happy adventure
-horror adventure
-puzzle
-rooftop runner
-RPG
-doom/serious sam/painkiller clones
-retarded michael bay interactive movies
-giant sandbox mayhem
-small sandbox mayhem
-world builder

There are more choices than ever.

Reply 43 of 94, by ratfink

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Think I agree with a huge amount already said here.

Computing is capable of so much more now, I reckon it's more fun as you can always run old software and/or hardware any if you want.

One misgiving I used to have was over wasted learning efforts in the past , but a lot of skills are surprisingly portable and I no longer think that's a problem. At work I still program in SAS and reasonably often in basic, same as in 1995.

Also because IT is so full of hype you can easily wait 10 years to get the functionality they claim to be selling you now 🤣, so it can turn out to be exactly as much fun as you expected it to be back then.

One thing that annoyed me was the move to gui's - windows was good once we got 95 and nt4, but it killed off my amateur programming interests as I really hated all the messing about with user interface issues in visual basic [for example] and I've never had the stomach for other "visual" products. I am not disputing they produce great software, but as an amateur who just wants to write a new algorithm or some text-parsing code rather than a full package, they seem to engender an unnecessary overhead.

However I now find myself learning python and prolog, and running things under unix. Wow, as someone who's not an IT pro, this seems like up to the minute retro computing - using python is a lot like old qbasic only better, and shell scripting is kinda batch files only better.

Add all the stuff you can do on the web and with multimedia, computing is a lot more fun imho.

Reply 44 of 94, by Mau1wurf1977

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ratfink wrote:

Add all the stuff you can do on the web and with multimedia, computing is a lot more fun imho.

Some things don't age in IT.

In the context of education / schools:

- LOGO / turtle graphics
- Tetris
- Pong

😁

Your comment about programming is very interesting, especially your comment about user interfaces. The thing is, in schools / education, Visual Basic is for that very reason so popular!

It's less abstract and there are a lot of things you can teach, without even getting into actual programming yet. E.g UI design, various UI elements and when they might be used (text box, tick boxes, radio buttons). How UI elements might be linked to database fields (Access) and so on...

And adding code to events (like clicking), again is very visual and makes for good learning because you get less frustrated. Back in the day at uni, we had this computer graphics subject were we learnt the code for lines, circles and things like that. For my assignment I created a wireframe model of the space ship featured in Elite and I used VB. The main reason was that I wanted to focus on the actual issue (the wireframe model) and not having to fight with other issues.

e.g. I did some Java and you need to do a lot more before you have something that actually runs and does something.

HTML is also very good in this context. Basically because you see the results right away and you see for yourself if something doesn't work.

I remember just how difficult Turbo Pascal was for me at school. It was sooo abstract for me, I always had a syntax errors and so on...

Still, for me, LOGO / turtle graphics is the best way to teach programming concepts. It's pure genious, starts really easy and can be as complex as you want it to be.

Reply 45 of 94, by butterfly

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ncmark wrote:

Maybe it's just me - is computing as much fun as it used to be? Once upon a time you put a disk in your computer and ran an install program and it worked - the first time. You didn't have to have an internet connection to "activate" the software or to download a "patch." All the help files were actually on the disk, not on the internet somewhere. And you had a pretty good idea what files did what.

You're getting older, pal, or just growing up 😊 and I am too.

Reply 46 of 94, by FeedingDragon

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This might come out a bit disjointed, so please bear with me....

There are things I like about the modern gaming environment, but I have to say that there are probably more I don't.

Back in the day, if you wanted a new game you had to either hope it was available at the store (and often it wasn't,) or had to sit biting your nails waiting for a UPS truck to drive down your street. I hated waiting, and the option today to just download your shiny new game is great. On the other hand, and it's time for a small horror story here, if you had the physical media you didn't have to worry as much about losing your money. For example, I spent $40 on a game from Direct2Drive (the one and only digital game I have or ever will buy if I can help it.) Now, D2D was bought out by GameFly. No sweat at first, until I decided to play my game again... Well, after a month of bouncing e-mails with GameFly, I finally get to re-download the game. Install it, and when I go to run it, I'm stuck at the validating screen because D2D isn't around any more. Another month of e-mail pong with GameFly to be told, "Sorry, we aren't planning to convert and distribute that game ourselves, you'll just have to make do with the old download from them, you can get it <here>" With a link to exact same installer that wouldn't work before (because D2D is not around to validate it.) Now, if I want to play it again, I'm going to have to go and buy it again at full price, assuming I can even find it. So, which is better? Waiting a week for your game, and being able to install/play it as many times as you want, or getting it now and running the risk that the server closes down and you can never play it again?

Issue number 2. The instant access to patches for games is great. Except for the trend I've seen of companies saying "send it now, if there's something wrong we'll give them a patch for it later." Now that is all fine and dandy, and doesn't bother me that much, except for those cases where you have to "pay" to get those patches in some form or another. Such as having to be a "member" to access the downloads? **cough** x-box live **cough** I also have to agree with another here, companies seem to "plan" on removing content they might otherwise have packaged with the game, so they can charge you for the "expansion" (DLC) later. Cannot say definitely that that is what they've done, but it sure looks like it sometimes. The instant access to patches/upgrades seems to have engendered companies into not caring any more about the quality of their releases.

Now, about quality, since I just brought it up. In many ways games have grown tremendously in quality. In other ways, they've actually done the opposite. There are solid reasons for this too. With modern HW capabilities, you can get visual & audio effects that were undreamed off. You must, though, realize that achieving these effects takes considerably longer to build. I can slap together an 8x8 pixel flower in 10 seconds easily. But now they are building flowers with 20000 polygons... Come on, that's going to take a bit of time. The problem is that they are spending all this time building the perfect flower, that they run out of time to build a gripping and enthralling story & plot. The bean counters want the game out there "now" so they can start getting some of the money they're spending back. And, to be honest, the gamers want the game "now" so they can start playing it. So, the games are beautiful to look at, and rather flat when actually playing. Where as, back then the play & story were gripping but the visuals were rather flat. Personally, I'd rather they spent less time on the visuals and give me a game that makes me actually think, instead of just point/shoot/point/shoot ad-infinitum. I still play games today, and some of them are rather modern, and fairly decent. But it has been years since I played a new game where I actually had to take notes, or stop playing while I try to figure out how to get past a certain puzzle (and no, I'm not talking about having access to internet walkthroughs.) Games where I would spend hours untangling the intricate plot twists, and being faces with shocking surprises, and situations that I just never saw coming. The fancy bells and whistles that programmers use as a crutch today, weren't available back then, so programmers had to provide something else to draw in the gamers.

Someone brought up special boot sequences that were required. Well, that really only applied to the PC scene, which originally wasn't designed for games. When IBM designed the PC, designers were actually quoted as saying, "why bother with that, home computers will never go anywhere." If you want to blame those boot nightmares on anyone, blame it on them. That being said, even the worst of the games I ever came across never gave me any serious problems. Did I like having to build a special boot floppy to run the game? Not really. But by the time it really started getting bad, games started moving away from DOS (which is where the problem existed.) Some of the games with the biggest problem... Ultima 7 (all of them,) & Elite II. All the others I tried, would actually build their own boot disk for you, no fuss, no muss. Get a floppy, label it Xanth, run the installer, and there you go. Also, snail mail was never an issue for me, where that is concerned. I never once came across a game that didn't come with a tech support phone number. That's how I got U7 up and running, I picked up the phone. Though, someone outside the US might not have found that as easy as me, I guess. I do remember European numbers on a game or two, but cannot say all of them had them.

Old style copy protection was a pain. But then again, all forms of copy protection (while necessary,) are a pain. Ok, I don't want to have to dig out my manual every time I want to play a game. Spinning the code wheel can be tedious. Having my floppy drive bang and chatter is rather nerve wracking. On the other hand, having to contact a server every time I want to play a game is just as bad. What about times when you just don't have access to the internet? What if the provider is gone (like D2D?) At least with manual checks, you don't have to worry about the manual deciding it just doesn't want you to read it right now. Yes, a fire can fry your copy protection, but I've had them replaced before (and for a lot less than buying the whole game over again.)

So it all boils down to what you want in a game. Do you want flash & glitter, or do you want erudite challenges. Do you want mindless action, or do you want artistic stimulation. Do you want to react or think. I know what I want, and it hasn't changed since 7th grade when I first started playing computer games. It just seems to have become less available. More games, IMHO, are becoming just cookie-cutter products. This is what worked before, and lets not take a chance any more. Lets just put out the same old thing, and just put a different label on it, or change the graphics. don't get me wrong, I've seen some awesome modern games, that have literally blown me away. Just not so many (relatively speaking,) as before. Before, there were games after games that I really wanted, but I could only buy so many, I only had time to play so many (and that's with many sleepless nights.) There was a huge variety, from Ultima, to Bard's Tale, to Wasteland, to Auto Duel, to Wizardry, to Enchanter, to Dragon Wars, to Might & Magic, to Lands of Lore, to ok you should get the picture. Now, there's Dragon Age, um... The Witcher, Fable was ok. Nothing else really comes to mind (Elder Scrolls is actually an older game with modern graphics, doesn't count.)

Feeding Dragon

Reply 47 of 94, by valnar

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<Stepping up on soapbox>

Everything seems to go through a period of intense innovation and quality, followed by period of jaded apathy and commercialism.

The "golden age" of arcade games was from 1979-1984. It wasn't just that Nintendo started to make inroads in to the home market, it was that the quality of the coin-op games went down and were just becoming copies of games before. By the 90's, you'd be hard pressed to find any arcade game that wasn't just racing or Street fighting. No more innovations like Pac Man, Tempest or Donkey Kong.

The same is true of rock music. To many, the best music came out between the late 60's and early 80's. Classic rock through the beginnings of New Wave and the British invasion. After that, music seemed to go downhill to cater to the lowest common denominator. Talent (ie. quality) was not longer an important factor.

For many reasons listed in this thread, the PC gaming industry is no different. For the developers (or the companies they work for), it's not about the game anymore, but something else.

You can find numerous examples to fit the paradigm.

Reply 48 of 94, by Jorpho

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FeedingDragon wrote:

For example, I spent $40 on a game from Direct2Drive (the one and only digital game I have or ever will buy if I can help it.) Now, D2D was bought out by GameFly. No sweat at first, until I decided to play my game again... Well, after a month of bouncing e-mails with GameFly, I finally get to re-download the game. Install it, and when I go to run it, I'm stuck at the validating screen because D2D isn't around any more. Another month of e-mail pong with GameFly to be told, "Sorry, we aren't planning to convert and distribute that game ourselves, you'll just have to make do with the old download from them, you can get it <here>" With a link to exact same installer that wouldn't work before (because D2D is not around to validate it.) Now, if I want to play it again, I'm going to have to go and buy it again at full price, assuming I can even find it.

No need to be coy. Which game are you referring to? [To be fair, D2D did send out a message right before the switch saying, "You'd better download your games now if you haven't already, just in case."]

valnar wrote:

The "golden age" of arcade games was from 1979-1984. It wasn't just that Nintendo started to make inroads in to the home market, it was that the quality of the coin-op games went down and were just becoming copies of games before. By the 90's, you'd be hard pressed to find any arcade game that wasn't just racing or Street fighting. No more innovations like Pac Man, Tempest or Donkey Kong.

You can hardly say that every arcade game from 1979-1984 was a unique snowflake that borrowed nothing from anywhere else. I reckon there was at least as much "copying" then as there was later on, if not more.

Reply 49 of 94, by FeedingDragon

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Jorpho wrote:

No need to be coy. Which game are you referring to? [To be fair, D2D did send out a message right before the switch saying, "You'd better download your games now if you haven't already, just in case."]

Doesn't matter, and downloading it then wouldn't have made a difference, I'd still be faced with being unable to actually play the game. It cannot validate because the validation server no longer exists. Now, I might be able to find a physical copy on eBay or something, I just feel that I shouldn't have to pay for the game all over again.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 50 of 94, by Iris030380

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swaaye wrote:
That's only if you ignore the three STALKER games, Crysis, Far Cry, Red Faction Guerilla, Just Cause 1 and 2, GTA3/4 and even th […]
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Pippy P. Poopypants wrote:
The reason I stopped playing modern FPS games: […]
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The reason I stopped playing modern FPS games:

fpsmapdesign.jpg

That's only if you ignore the three STALKER games, Crysis, Far Cry, Red Faction Guerilla, Just Cause 1 and 2, GTA3/4 and even the RPGs-that-are-essentially-shooters like Oblivion and Fallout 3. I'm an open-world shooter fan and the best games like this have come out since 2004.

Currently I am looking forward to STALKER 2, Rage, and Skyrim. Probably others that I've forgotten too.

Anyway, old shooters were usually nonsensical mazes with key hunts. That's not superior gameplay even if it was fun at the time and still fun to go back to occasionally.

Stalker was a great game, very long in development and unlike the VAST majority of games that have been 'very long in development' (ie. DNFE?), Stalker arrived intact and PC orientated to the max. It didn't get tainted by the console mentalitly like everything else did. And you know what the media said about Stalker? Insanely hard, they said. Steep learning curve, relentless action.... cos it don't bottle feed you and make it impossible for you to lose. Like all the other FPS games do.

And I don't know why you mention Skyrim or Oblivion in an FPS map related post. Or Just Cause... it's designed to be played in 3rd person. As is GTA - which is a CAR game.

And I loved the example pictures of the two maps ^^

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Reply 51 of 94, by Iris030380

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valnar wrote:
<Stepping up on soapbox> […]
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<Stepping up on soapbox>

Everything seems to go through a period of intense innovation and quality, followed by period of jaded apathy and commercialism.

The "golden age" of arcade games was from 1979-1984. It wasn't just that Nintendo started to make inroads in to the home market, it was that the quality of the coin-op games went down and were just becoming copies of games before. By the 90's, you'd be hard pressed to find any arcade game that wasn't just racing or Street fighting. No more innovations like Pac Man, Tempest or Donkey Kong.

The same is true of rock music. To many, the best music came out between the late 60's and early 80's. Classic rock through the beginnings of New Wave and the British invasion. After that, music seemed to go downhill to cater to the lowest common denominator. Talent (ie. quality) was not longer an important factor.

For many reasons listed in this thread, the PC gaming industry is no different. For the developers (or the companies they work for), it's not about the game anymore, but something else.

You can find numerous examples to fit the paradigm.

Some things have nothing to do with others. Rock music has been around forever, and every year without fail an amazingly fresh band would come along and even the critics couldn't do anything but admire.

PC gaming, and as a massive consequence, gaming in general, has dived off a cliff. With the sole reason being greed. Corporations stepped in when they smelled the money potential - and turned games into packets of crisps. All the fucking same, with a slightly different flavour.

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Reply 54 of 94, by 3DfxNerd

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FeedingDragon wrote:

stuff

very good point, it all depends on what you want to play. the best "modern" game in MY opinion would be GTA San Andreas. it had a good storyline, a HUGE map, always somthing to do, and great graphics (for the time) and it would run on a piece of crap system quite well on low graphics.

thats my opinion, theres probably better games that I can't think of at the moment.

FeedingDragon is quite good at writing essays I see 🤣

Insert creative signature here.

Reply 55 of 94, by FeedingDragon

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3DfxNerd wrote:

FeedingDragon is quite good at writing essays I see 🤣

Yeah, I tend to post in small novel sizes.... Sorry.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 56 of 94, by simbin

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PowerPie5000 wrote:

Gaming for me has become quite jaded these days... Years ago I used to buy games and literally couldn't wait to play them! But now i buy them, play them and i'm like 'meh'... I can't even be bothered to complete some games and still have quite a few that i've never even opened (bought them in sales etc...).

These days a game needs to be very different (original) and look very interesting to really catch my attention.

I thought it was just me..

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Reply 57 of 94, by FeedingDragon

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FeedingDragon wrote:

For example, I spent $40 on a game from Direct2Drive (the one and only digital game I have or ever will buy if I can help it.) Now, D2D was bought out by GameFly. No sweat at first, until I decided to play my game again... Well, after a month of bouncing e-mails with GameFly, I finally get to re-download the game. Install it, and when I go to run it, I'm stuck at the validating screen because D2D isn't around any more. Another month of e-mail pong with GameFly to be told, "Sorry, we aren't planning to convert and distribute that game ourselves, you'll just have to make do with the old download from them, you can get it <here>" With a link to exact same installer that wouldn't work before (because D2D is not around to validate it.) Now, if I want to play it again, I'm going to have to go and buy it again at full price, assuming I can even find it

I have to make a correction... After several months of e-mail pong with GameFly, all of which resulted in "we are never going to update that game," I decided to try their installer again (never hurts to try.) Low and behold, under "my purchases" it was now clearly listed. Downloaded it, installed it with their software, and it works just great. So, while they may not be offering it for sale, they have given support to those that already purchased it through D2D. So my complaint there is no longer valid. Sorry everyone.

Feeding Dragon

Reply 58 of 94, by Mau1wurf1977

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simbin wrote:

I thought it was just me..

I was very excited around the Battlefield 3 launch. I played the Beta and struggled through the first-day server issues but the game really got me hooked.

The other thing we need to realise, and this might be a bitter pill to swallow, our generation had their time. The current games aren't for us, they are for the next generation and they seem to enjoy these games quite a lot, especially the large franchises.

Also let's not forget that franchises isn't something new. Wing Commander had like ~ 10 games all up with the spin-offs, Space Quest, Kings Quest had 6+ sequels and the countless Wolfenstein 3D / Doom clones.

I think there are so many awesome games available if you just try to see them with fresh eyes.

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