Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

(2) can be set to auto detect and switch to proper 4:3 aspect ratio (vertical black bars on both sides) directly from the monitor itself, without the need to set the aspect ratio from the video card driver.

Nvidia Forceware can do this automatically for you, it's set and forget.
It's done on the GPU and there's no performance loss that I can tell. I use it all the time on my 5:4 (1280x1024) monitor.
No matter what resolution, anything that goes full screen and is supposed to be 4:3 now displays like it should - with black bars on the top and the bottom. No more oval gun sights!
Also, if I want to run games in a widescreen resolution this is the way to get it to work right. If I leave aspect correction off, wide screen resolutions will stretch to full screen, making everything tall.

I've been using this on both my 9800 GTX+ and my GTX 460 and it has never failed to work correctly.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

(3) supports a wide range of refresh rates, because there are DOS games that I'd like to run natively on DOS instead of DOSBOX.

That's the hard part because it requires the manufacturer to have implemented this into the firmware.

Maybe we should start a monitor database. Testing with a shareware game and seeing if the monitor does proper 4:3 scaling (letterboxing).

Sune Salminen wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

(2) can be set to auto detect and switch to proper 4:3 aspect ratio (vertical black bars on both sides) directly from the monitor itself, without the need to set the aspect ratio from the video card driver.

Nvidia Forceware can do this automatically for you, it's set and forget.
It's done on the GPU and there's no performance loss that I can tell. I use it all the time on my 5:4 (1280x1024) monitor.

Wait.

You said it is fire and forget. So let say I connect the monitor to computer A (which has GeForce card), and then set the monitor to do 4:3, then the monitor will display the aspect ratio properly, with black bars.

And then I connect the monitor to computer B (which has Voodoo card), and then the monitor will still display the black bars at it should, without the need to reconfigure the monitor's aspect ratio.

Am I correct?

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

(3) supports a wide range of refresh rates, because there are DOS games that I'd like to run natively on DOS instead of DOSBOX.

That's the hard part because it requires the manufacturer to have implemented this into the firmware.

I see.

What the worst would happen if I play a DOS game natively, with refresh rate, let say, 70 Hz, but the monitor only supports 60 Hz?

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Maybe we should start a monitor database. Testing with a shareware game and seeing if the monitor does proper 4:3 scaling (letterboxing).

Love the idea. How about using this thread?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

I see.

What the worst would happen if I play a DOS game natively, with refresh rate, let say, 70 Hz, but the monitor only supports 60 Hz?

Ok refresh rate won't be an issue. LCDs can usually only do 60Hz at the native resolution, but all of them will do 72 or 75 (or whatever DOS uses) at the low DOS resolution. In this regard you will get smooth scrolling simply because the LCD is a 75 Hz LCD at that resolution.

The big issue is scaling. You want black bars on the sides (letterboxing) and only few monitors have this capability.

Maybe we should start a monitor database. Testing with a shareware game and seeing if the monitor does proper 4:3 scaling (letterboxing).
Love the idea. How about using this thread?

No issue at all 😀

We might also include screens confirmed NOT to scale (in this case the image will be full-screen and stretched).

My first entry:

Brand: AOC
Model: e2450Swda
Size: 23.6"
Native resolution: 1920 x 1080
Connectors: VGA and DVI
DOS compatibility: NO SCALING

[/img]

It does have a OSD menu entry for scaling, but it's grayed out.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

(1) has at least 1200 pixels vertical resolution.

That would be 1920x1200 resolution, which is a 16:10 ratio widescreen. Since 1080p is the norm for widescreen (1920x1080) and is 16:9 ratio, it is extremely difficult to find 1920x1200 monitors anymore, and it's virtually impossible to find them at television sizes.

I use a 1920x1080 monitor for my old DOS gaming and I have no complaints. The amount of bluring between pixels is not all that noticable since 480 divides into 1080 2.25 times, so every 9 real pixels equates to 4 pixels at 640x480 resolution. Any good brand of widescreen displays should letterbox a 640x480 signal properly or have options (like mine does) to either letterbox or stretch to fill the screen.

For the record, I'm using a Samsung display and have also seen letterbox settings on Panasonic and Toshiba displays... that's the extent of my personal experience though. Best thing to do is to actually ask the manufacturer if such and such display has selectable letterbox settings.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

I see.

What the worst would happen if I play a DOS game natively, with refresh rate, let say, 70 Hz, but the monitor only supports 60 Hz?

Ok refresh rate won't be an issue. LCDs can usually only do 60Hz at the native resolution, but all of them will do 72 or 75 (or whatever DOS uses) at the low DOS resolution. In this regard you will get smooth scrolling simply because the LCD is a 75 Hz LCD at that resolution.

Unfortunately this is not true for all displays. I have an old IBM (Lenovo) L200p, which seems to be an ideal candidate for DOS gaming because it is a 1600x1200 4:3 display. It syncs to a wide range of input frequencies (50 Hz to at least 75 Hz), but everything above 60 Hz is internally capped to 60 Hz for some reason. Which means that smooth scrolling at standard VGA timings is impossible with this monitor. This is incredibly annoying. 😠

Oh I see. Hoping that this is the exception 😀

you set scaling on a nv card like so (has to connected via dvi)

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Oh yes of course. AMD and Intel has that too.

But we are talking about running pure MS-Dos. Like from a 486 PC 😀

Oh! Something I forgot to mention. The connection type plays a factor in letterboxing. :O

Certain displays will only allow or alter letterbox settings with certain kinds of signals. For instance, some TVs will only allow you to adjust letterbox settings on Coaxial/Composite connections and will assume that all Component/HDMI connections are widescreen signals.

This can be fairly lame for obvious reasons. :P

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

You said it is fire and forget. So let say I connect the monitor to computer A (which has GeForce card), and then set the monitor to do 4:3, then the monitor will display the aspect ratio properly, with black bars.

And then I connect the monitor to computer B (which has Voodoo card), and then the monitor will still display the black bars at it should, without the need to reconfigure the monitor's aspect ratio.
Am I correct?

Dude, you're having a 'blonde moment' here.

Aspect ratio correction is done on the GPU, the video card does not program your monitor so that it will scale correctly when it's connected to another video card!

How could a setting in the Nvidia Forceware control panel possibly affect a video card from another manufacturer, in another machine?

What I meant by set and forget is that you only have to activate this setting once (as opposed to on a per-game basis) then it works automatically.
IMHO this should be activated by default. On the other hand it's not hard to imagine idiots complaining about "those damn black bars, I paid for this monitor and I want to use all of it".

Getting that resolution will be a toughie, but several of my LCDs (some old some new) are capable of "ratio correct" scaling, and though there may be some that don't, every hanns-g monitor I have owned has this as an option in it's OSD menu. No software needed, just set it in the monitor options and it will auto-scale with the black bars on the sides of the monitor when you run 4:3 screen modes. (aka pillar box mode)

Also, newegg has lots of 4:3 LCD monitors for sale, including a few that can do 1600x1200 native. have a look:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp … nd&Pagesize=100

Keep in mind that many dos games are in 320x200, which is a 16:10 resolution pixel-wise. However, they were designed to be viewed on a 4:3 tube which stretches the image to fill the screen.
Most new widescreen monitors will just assume it's 16:10 and display it as it is. Thus the game will appear horizontally stretched as Mau1wurf's picture shows.

That's actually why I suggest getting a 4:3 monitor. 😀
There are a few LCD monitors you can force 4:3 on but they are rare.

And then you have the issue with 4:3 vs. 5:4 😀

800 x 600 and 1024 x 768 are 4:3, but the popular 1280 x 1024 is 5:4. And it's all the 17" and 19" that have this resolution. It's a shame because these are very easy to get, cheap and modern enough to have minimal ghosting.

The Samsung screen at work have a aspect ratio button on the front. They are 16:10 and I will test it one day.

May I ask..

why not just use a CRT?

for me, the reason is that I have become incredibly sensitive to CRT flicker to the point of even seeing one in my peripheral vision can induce vertigo and nausea and instant retching... I have had to remove CRTs from my daily life entirely because of that.

Since recently I have this Dell Ultrasharp U2312HM 1920x1080. Normally not the resolution of my choice, but since I watch TV on it too I have to stick to that.

With 4 pushes of the adjustment buttons I can toggle the forced 4:3 aspect ratio option. I like the option, but it is still a hassle. I just use GPU scaling.

I configured most windows games for 1440x1080, which is the maximum 4:3 resolution. But I had to add 1440x1080 to the Intel and AMD/ATI display adapter configuration, because it is not selectable by default!?.

This is not a recommendation for retro gaming, but it is a fine monitor still. There is similar but 1200 pixels high model too.