sliderider wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

sliderider wrote:

2 years ago there was a raid of a flea market seller of bootleg music less than half a mile from where I live. The cops had absolutely no complaints from anyone about what he was doing, only an officer who observed him selling. If they would arrest him without a complaint from the public or from a copyright holder, why wouldn't they arrest him if I tipped them off?

Offhand: because the cops have better things to do, perhaps. Or because it would be too difficult to prove their case, possibly due to the sellers learning to better evade detection.

An officer observing someone selling is one thing, but I can recall reading about some unusual cases in which citizens have gotten into considerable trouble in trying to take the law into their own hands.

And if I email a link to an abandonware site to the local police and they can see for themselves that copyrights are being violated, how is that any different than an officer seeing a flea market bootlegger breaking the law? Both the website and the bootlegger are committing the same crime. If the bootlegger can be arrested after being observed by an officer, why is the website owner exempt?

I'm not sure that's the same thought. An officer observing a bootlegger actually selling copies (and possibly recording it on camera) will have a much easier time obtaining a search warrant of the said bootlegger's premises in search of copyrighted material. Just because a tipster gives information to the police saying: "Hey, I think my neighbor is copying software and selling it" doesn't exactly give them the right to search his/her house.

Jan3Sobieski wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

Offhand: because the cops have better things to do, perhaps. Or because it would be too difficult to prove their case, possibly due to the sellers learning to better evade detection.

An officer observing someone selling is one thing, but I can recall reading about some unusual cases in which citizens have gotten into considerable trouble in trying to take the law into their own hands.

And if I email a link to an abandonware site to the local police and they can see for themselves that copyrights are being violated, how is that any different than an officer seeing a flea market bootlegger breaking the law? Both the website and the bootlegger are committing the same crime. If the bootlegger can be arrested after being observed by an officer, why is the website owner exempt?

I'm not sure that's the same thought. An officer observing a bootlegger actually selling copies (and possibly recording it on camera) will have a much easier time obtaining a search warrant of the said bootlegger's premises in search of copyrighted material. Just because a tipster gives information to the police saying: "Hey, I think my neighbor is copying software and selling it" doesn't exactly give them the right to search his/her house.

Narcotics officers around the world do it every day. They get a tip someone is dealing, they set up a buy using an undercover officer, as soon as money changes hands the seller is arrested. They can do the same thing with a bootlegger.

thanks slidederailer.

back to "archieving..."

VileRancour wrote:

CGA games written in (sometimes broken) BASIC,

yeah i got the CGA strip-poker from Artworx, which come with the .BAS file.
Need basica/gw-basic to run that game.
My first adult game on XT computer.

For nostalgia reason I ask Artworx if they still selling that game,
They said no, and offer me to buy the latest version of strip poker for windows instead.

Looking in various place in internet, i feel dissapoined with what i found.
The game was crippled,
some images were missings,
already compiled to .EXE but the .BAS files also dummied out.
Not so surprising, all those non-official sources i found were exactly the same.

The version i got in a real 5 1/4" (360KB) floppy in mid '80s were a lot better. But its no longer available.

sliderider wrote:

Narcotics officers around the world do it every day. They get a tip someone is dealing, they set up a buy using an undercover officer, as soon as money changes hands the seller is arrested. They can do the same thing with a bootlegger.

Narcotics and bootlegs are two very, very different things, I know that much. But I am much too hazy on the legal specifics beyond that.

I am really quite surprised to learn of this raid on a flea market seller that you mention, and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a lot more details to the story. (How do you know the story so well, anyway? How can you be sure there were "absolutely no complaints from anyone" ? I'm partly inclined to believe said bootlegger had managed to offend the law in some other fashion and the charge of bootlegging was just a convenient excuse.) It's not like there aren't dozens of other bootleggers who seem to be getting along well enough.

Jorpho wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Narcotics officers around the world do it every day. They get a tip someone is dealing, they set up a buy using an undercover officer, as soon as money changes hands the seller is arrested. They can do the same thing with a bootlegger.

Narcotics and bootlegs are two very, very different things, I know that much. But I am much too hazy on the legal specifics beyond that.

\

In this situation the officer needs to apply for a warrant and has to produce evidence that the informant's information is reliable, such as the same informant having previously produced good info. In America at least, anonymous or first-time tipsters may not carry much weight.

hypothetical scenario: you have a choice - stand aside as some insignificant copyright is violated, or thousands of adorable puppies will die in horrible, gut-wrenching, tortuous pain before your very eyes. Pretty sure what Sliderider would do.

but yeah, enough with the derailing. Jason Scott shouldn't be too hard to get a hold of, and he'd probably be inclined to nuke the warez if informed.

sliderider wrote:

Oh, and when the price I pay for software goes up due to the cost of combating piracy, then I do have a say in the matter.

I'd really like to see the evidences to backup the claim that the rising of software price is caused - or at least mostly caused - by piracy.

sliderider wrote:

Narcotics officers around the world do it every day. They get a tip someone is dealing, they set up a buy using an undercover officer, as soon as money changes hands the seller is arrested. They can do the same thing with a bootlegger.

And bootlegger is as harmful to the society as drug dealer because....?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Oh, and when the price I pay for software goes up due to the cost of combating piracy, then I do have a say in the matter.

I'd really like to see the evidences to backup the claim that the rising of software price is caused - or at least mostly caused - by piracy.

while i'm also quite unsure about empirical evidence, some software companies did threaten the end-users with price hike.

Let me quote an example from Maxis's SimFarm's Readme:

SimFarm DOS Last Minute Information September 1, 1993 ----------------------------- […]
Show full quote

SimFarm DOS
Last Minute Information
September 1, 1993
-----------------------------

COPY PROTECTION:
---------------
SimFarm is NOT copy protected. Please, please, oh pretty please do not give
away copies of SimFarm to your friends. Heck, don't give copies to your
enemies either. Illegal copies do terrible things to wholesome software
companies like us, and will make us raise our prices. Besides, if we find out
you gave away an illegal copy of SimFarm, we'll tell your mother. THEN you'll
be in BIG trouble...

but, there was no GOG in 1993...

Those pc-gamer cd's are they from the u.s mag or the u.k mag ?

US.

Joey_sw wrote:

while i'm also quite unsure about empirical evidence, some software companies did threaten the end-users with price hike. […]
Show full quote

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Oh, and when the price I pay for software goes up due to the cost of combating piracy, then I do have a say in the matter.

I'd really like to see the evidences to backup the claim that the rising of software price is caused - or at least mostly caused - by piracy.

while i'm also quite unsure about empirical evidence, some software companies did threaten the end-users with price hike.

Let me quote an example from Maxis's SimFarm's Readme:

SimFarm DOS Last Minute Information September 1, 1993 ----------------------------- […]
Show full quote

SimFarm DOS
Last Minute Information
September 1, 1993
-----------------------------

COPY PROTECTION:
---------------
SimFarm is NOT copy protected. Please, please, oh pretty please do not give
away copies of SimFarm to your friends. Heck, don't give copies to your
enemies either. Illegal copies do terrible things to wholesome software
companies like us, and will make us raise our prices. Besides, if we find out
you gave away an illegal copy of SimFarm, we'll tell your mother. THEN you'll
be in BIG trouble...

but, there was no GOG in 1993...

While I appreciate Maxis' decision to not plaguing SimFarm with copy protection, I don't think corporate claims are valid evidence. If we take corporate claims as evidence, then Windows is the most stable operating system around. 😉

What I'm really looking for are numbers, studies, statistics that reasonably proves gaming price raise positively correlates with piracy.

Nonetheless, it is interesting to note that in movie industry, piracy does not affect box office sales. It should also be noted that the study that says piracy destroys economy is bogus.

As for gaming industry, here is an example: Crysis 2 was the most pirated game last year, yet it still sold over 3 million copies at the same year.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

I'd really like to see the evidences to backup the claim that the rising of software price is caused - or at least mostly cause […]
Show full quote

sliderider wrote:

Oh, and when the price I pay for software goes up due to the cost of combating piracy, then I do have a say in the matter.

I'd really like to see the evidences to backup the claim that the rising of software price is caused - or at least mostly caused - by piracy.

sliderider wrote:

Narcotics officers around the world do it every day. They get a tip someone is dealing, they set up a buy using an undercover officer, as soon as money changes hands the seller is arrested. They can do the same thing with a bootlegger.

And bootlegger is as harmful to the society as drug dealer because....?

It doesn't have to be wholly or even caused by piracy. If it goes up even one penny to cover the cost of piracy, then it is still an increase in cost that we all have to bear. If we had the power to do something about it, like turning in the owners of warez sites, then we all benefit from lower prices whether those are a lot lower or just a little bit lower.

And my reason stated above that it causes society to have less buying power when they shop for software is just as harmful as any drug dealer.

Joey_sw wrote:

while i'm also quite unsure about empirical evidence, some software companies did threaten the end-users with price hike. […]
Show full quote

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Oh, and when the price I pay for software goes up due to the cost of combating piracy, then I do have a say in the matter.

I'd really like to see the evidences to backup the claim that the rising of software price is caused - or at least mostly caused - by piracy.

while i'm also quite unsure about empirical evidence, some software companies did threaten the end-users with price hike.

Let me quote an example from Maxis's SimFarm's Readme:

SimFarm DOS Last Minute Information September 1, 1993 ----------------------------- […]
Show full quote

SimFarm DOS
Last Minute Information
September 1, 1993
-----------------------------

COPY PROTECTION:
---------------
SimFarm is NOT copy protected. Please, please, oh pretty please do not give
away copies of SimFarm to your friends. Heck, don't give copies to your
enemies either. Illegal copies do terrible things to wholesome software
companies like us, and will make us raise our prices. Besides, if we find out
you gave away an illegal copy of SimFarm, we'll tell your mother. THEN you'll
be in BIG trouble...

but, there was no GOG in 1993...

And nobody is accusing GOG of software piracy are they?

Hater Depot wrote:

Jorpho wrote:

sliderider wrote:

Narcotics officers around the world do it every day. They get a tip someone is dealing, they set up a buy using an undercover officer, as soon as money changes hands the seller is arrested. They can do the same thing with a bootlegger.

Narcotics and bootlegs are two very, very different things, I know that much. But I am much too hazy on the legal specifics beyond that.

\

In this situation the officer needs to apply for a warrant and has to produce evidence that the informant's information is reliable, such as the same informant having previously produced good info. In America at least, anonymous or first-time tipsters may not carry much weight.

What more evidence do you need than a visit to the website in question?

Jorpho wrote:

Withholding information from authorities when said information is requested is very different from actively bringing such information to the authorities at one's discretion.

Is that so?

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/search/disp … 04----000-.html

18 USC subsection 4

Misprision of a felony

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

In other words, if a copyright holder sees his own work (which he has not formally released the rights to) being illegally distributed and does not report it,then he is guilty of a crime under this section of the United States Code.

sliderider wrote:

18 USC subsection 4 […]
Show full quote

18 USC subsection 4

Misprision of a felony

Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

In other words, if a copyright holder sees his own work (which he has not formally released the rights to) being illegally distributed and does not report it,then he is guilty of a crime under this section of the United States Code.

Oh dear $deity. Illegal distribution of a copyrighted work is not a felony! If I'm not mistaken, it doesn't even fall under the Criminal Code! And how the heck could the copyright holder be guilty of a crime relating to his own work!?

I give up. This is hopeless.

There are much more cracked C64 games than games for the C64 exist. However this is the main reason why so many old C64 games are archived in working condition. From the historical aspect this is an advantage although two aspects play together here.
Low barrier for working copies and ignorance of still valid copyrights.

So wouldn't it be more of a common sense to allow software to be archived at a certain age instead of insisting on copyright limitations for 70? years?
After 70 years it is guaranteed that everything is lost.

someone should split this yetanotherabandonwarediscussion

BTW I plowed through the '97 PC Gamers and 2000 PCZones for the vintage maps

sliderider wrote:

Oh, and when the price I pay for software goes up due to the cost of combating piracy, then I do have a say in the matter.

sliderider wrote:

And nobody is accusing GOG of software piracy are they?

yeah GOG price is so cheap compared to original's price.

yet i could found many sites provide links to download GOG releases for free,
or to lesser extent your friend gives you games (s)he got from GOG.

And with all of that, GOG never raise their price for 'piracy' reasons...
something must be wrong here.