Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

So is it safe to say that PL IIx/IIz receivers do not upmix 5.1 to 7.1 from discrete analog inputs either?

They should upmix from stereo analog inputs and digital inputs; just not discrete multi-channel analog. This is because most receivers/preamps/etc offer those as more or less a bypass input, on the assumption that you're connecting another processor or decoder that will handle its own business.

Indeed. What concerns me more is actually the bass management. My speakers are full-range (well, almost. The 120Tis start to roll at 60Hz), so the sub won't sound if I'm using Aureal 3D sound cards.

Bass management is easy-peasy; just get an active crossover or loudspeaker management system. Take the main L/R into that, and it will spit out L/R for the speakers and a mono sub for the sub (or if you really wanted, it'll just split 2 to 2 and you'll have two subs that just carry <80Hz (or wherever) for each channel).

Wait, I remember reading somewhere that such .2 receivers have options to use the dual sub output channel: when playing movies (or other discrete multichannel sources), the dual sub will use the same .1 channel, thus, will sound identical (dual-mono). However, in stereo mode, each sub output channel will act as extension of the front L/R channel (stereo bass).

Some newer receivers may let you blast all the subwoofers for music, sure. I don't know if they're actually processing it internally as separate L/R channels though - what you're describing sounds most likely though, because it's the most half-way solution possible (and sadly that's become par for the course). 🤣

Found none on ebay. I wonder why such external Dolby Digital Live encoder aren't being made anymore. […]
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Found none on ebay. I wonder why such external Dolby Digital Live encoder aren't being made anymore.

I wonder if it's possible to create a DIY DDL encoder using chips taken from old nForce motherboard, which is capable to accept up to 7.1 (or even 9.2) discrete analog channel. Too bad I understand jack shit about electronics.

(well, things like RMS and speaker impedance are within my understanding, but electronic circuitry is another thing)

Or alternatively, do DDL encoder chips exist?

Building one yourself, I have no idea. As far as why they aren't made anymore, it's probably a pragmatism thing - modern soundcards can do this internally, so there's no need for an external box. They aren't so worried about odd-ball scenarios like supporting A3D or what-have-you, because that's a small minority of users, and it's easier to just port the software back to older cards (like Audigy) than to build hardware.

Indeed. Would this device work?

No clue - like I said, I've never played around with one of them. 😊

Generally I'll let the 4.0 sound card handle their own DSP, especially those related to Aureal 3D. What I really want are (in or […]
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Generally I'll let the 4.0 sound card handle their own DSP, especially those related to Aureal 3D. What I really want are (in order of importance):
(1) bass management.
(2) center channel output that picks the "most centered sound" from front L/R channel. I think it requires receiver's DSP, but as long as I can convert the discrete multichannel analog to S/PDIF, the receiver will handle the rest as long as it's Dolby (instead of DTS).
(3) surround channel output that averages the front and rear-surround input. Again, this requires DSP, but the receiver should be able to handle it (4.0 to 7.1 upmix by DPL IIx) if I can convert the discrete analog to S/PDIF using DDL.

None of this requires DSP - bass management can be accomplished with an external crossover or LMS, and it will probably do a better job than what most receivers do. The center channel can be "synthesized" with a fairly basic passive circuit, as can the surrounds, or you can have a Pro Logic decoder or stand-alone DSP do that (if you don't want to build basic passive stuff).

To do this with a Pro Logic decoder you'd just take L/R into it, and use it to output L/C/R (and potentially LF if it supports that), and then let the surround L/R go their own way. If you had two PL decoders you could run one on the surround L/R in the same way and generate two center channels (one for the front and one for the back); to make that 7.1 you'd just run dual mono for the rear center (which is how 7.1 works for the VAST majority of equipment; discrete is a whole nother bag of worms).

With miniDSP you'd use the center synthesis plugin.

With stand-alone hardware you'd just build a center channel or surround circuit; the Pro Logic decoder will have better separation and whatnot, but it's extra equipment. Look at say this page:
http://kantack.com/surround/surround2.html

Or the PWK center-channel circuit; I have the original as part of a (very big) PDF, but I'm not sure on the easiest way to share it.

Does it have S/PDIF output? Can it be used as DD Live encoder?

It doesn't do anything digital; it's analog in to analog out. It does bass management on those inputs though.

Do such mini DSPs exist?

Yes, the miniDSP is an actual product: http://www.minidsp.com/

Hold on, this is most interesting.

obobskivich wrote:

Generally I'll let the 4.0 sound card handle their own DSP, especially those related to Aureal 3D. What I really want are (in or […]
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Generally I'll let the 4.0 sound card handle their own DSP, especially those related to Aureal 3D. What I really want are (in order of importance):
(1) bass management.
(2) center channel output that picks the "most centered sound" from front L/R channel. I think it requires receiver's DSP, but as long as I can convert the discrete multichannel analog to S/PDIF, the receiver will handle the rest as long as it's Dolby (instead of DTS).
(3) surround channel output that averages the front and rear-surround input. Again, this requires DSP, but the receiver should be able to handle it (4.0 to 7.1 upmix by DPL IIx) if I can convert the discrete analog to S/PDIF using DDL.

None of this requires DSP - bass management can be accomplished with an external crossover or LMS, and it will probably do a better job than what most receivers do. The center channel can be "synthesized" with a fairly basic passive circuit, as can the surrounds, or you can have a Pro Logic decoder or stand-alone DSP do that (if you don't want to build basic passive stuff).

Yes, this is what I've been having in mind from the very start: a passive circuit to convert Aureal 3D's 4.0 output into discrete 7.1 (or better, 7.2) analog. This way, the 7.1 receiver merely acts as pass-through. Of course there is still master volume control and the likes, but the receiver will not process anything.

This is how it should work:

(1) Front L/R will be "averaged" to make center channel. However, the center channel will not take the entire L/R sound; that won't be ideal, and will result in comb filtering. Instead, the center channel merely picks the "most centered sound" from the front L/R channel. I figure this will done with stereo pan filter (phase filter?) or such.

(2) Front L/R and rear L/R will also be the source for the surround L/R (the speakers sit on your sides instead of your rear). Again, the surround L/R shouldn't merely be the sum front L/R and rear L/R, but picks the sound that falls in-between, pan-wise.

(3) Low frequencies from front L/R and rear L/R will be summed to make the .1 LF channel. This will not subtract the LF from either front or rear; the original front L/R and rear L/R will remain full range.

As you can see, there won't be any digital processing; all the processing will be hardwired into the box's circuitry - including the bass management. But the advantage of it is that it's will be entirely analog. All the Aureal 3D's processing will not be compressed into Dolby Digital Live. Thus, the Aureal 3D's sound quality is preserved.

Of course, I assume it can be done entirely in analog, with passive circuitry. Well, can it?

I have a friend whose hobby is designing electronic circuit board. However, he doesn't know much about sound processing due to the lack of interest of audiophile stuff.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Yes, this is what I've been having in mind from the very start: a passive circuit to convert Aureal 3D's 4.0 output into discrete 7.1 (or better, 7.2) analog. This way, the 7.1 receiver merely acts as pass-through. Of course there is still master volume control and the likes, but the receiver will not process anything.

This is how it should work:

(1) Front L/R will be "averaged" to make center channel. However, the center channel will not take the entire L/R sound; that won't be ideal, and will result in comb filtering. Instead, the center channel merely picks the "most centered sound" from the front L/R channel. I figure this will done with stereo pan filter (phase filter?) or such.

The PWK circuit would accomplish this, I'll have to look at converting the diagrams to pngs to upload.

(2) Front L/R and rear L/R will also be the source for the surround L/R (the speakers sit on your sides instead of your rear). Again, the surround L/R shouldn't merely be the sum front L/R and rear L/R, but picks the sound that falls in-between, pan-wise.

The "rear" in 5.1 is the "mid" in 7.1, you can't/shouldn't put them further back and synth channels inbetween, nor would it have any benefit (front/back pans wouldn't be as dramatic and you'd limit front/back channel separation tying them together). If you want 6.1/7.1 in the way Dolby/DTS does it, you're taking the surround L/R into a matrix decoder (e.g. Pro Logic) and taking what would be the "center" output as the rear surround L/R (or rear surround "center"). This is more or less how ES/EX decoders work (you actually could buy stand-alone ES/EX add-on decoders at one point, like the Parasound Center Surround unit; most of them use SRS Circle Surround). Discrete 7.1, like what an Audigy 2 ZS can output, is another bag of worms - it requires the source to be generated in 7.1, and is fairly rare in home theater settings (not many movies are mixed for 7.1).

From having had 4.0 up through 7.x for gaming, there's not as huge a difference as going from stereo to surround - in most cases it's just extra channels for panning (remember that game audio isn't as "fixed" as movie audio), but if you have properly positioned and quality speakers in the 4.0 setup they will do a fine enough job with phantom imaging as to not really need the extra speakers (remember that stereo imaging still "exists" for surround pairs).

(3) Low frequencies from front L/R and rear L/R will be summed to make the .1 LF channel. This will not subtract the LF from either front or rear; the original front L/R and rear L/R will remain full range.

Won't work with a simple passive circuit, and unless the card can't do bass management with the surrounds to the mains, there's no need. For bass management you should just be taking main L/R and routing the sub from there via crossover/LMS (no need for "discrete" or all of that - again the sub is just a suppliment, not a required additional channel). Finally you don't likely want a fixed circuit for this, because you probably don't know the exact crossover points for your specific speakers/sub combo relative to their placement in your specific room and so forth (the anechoic F3 for the speakers isn't quite what we're looking for). Having something that's variable is very much an advantage here.

A simple way to get around this is to just "clone" the outputs and send full-range into a subwoofer that supports full-range input, and has its own low-pass filtering and gain controls. Just dial it (the sub) in to where it sounds relatively well blended and away you go - it isn't perfect, but it's simple. Some subs will even let you take this a step further and hook up via speaker wire - full range in and full range out for the main speakers, and then the sub is running a low-pass from that signal.

Finally, if your main speakers are really able to reach fairly low (30Hz or lower), you will potentially get better results rolling their LF output off, as opposed to having everything running at once (with everything going at once its actually possible to have less perceived bass, due to phase cancellation). It really depends on the configuration, placement, room, etc though - it's best to have the ability to make changes and set your equipment up and test it out, than to try and guess at everything (e.g. fixed value devices) beforehand.

As you can see, there won't be any digital processing; all the processing will be hardwired into the box's circuitry - including the bass management. But the advantage of it is that it's will be entirely analog. All the Aureal 3D's processing will not be compressed into Dolby Digital Live. Thus, the Aureal 3D's sound quality is preserved.

There shouldn't be anything wrong with DDL or DTS Connect in terms of sound quality (unless you find DVDs unlistenable/etc due to compression); an analog circuit as you're proposing will have MUCH worse channel separation and S/N than any sort of digital processing as well. I don't know what the A3D card is doing for channel separation, but normal Dolby Digital/DTS should be assumed at least 50-60 dB, Pro Logic is usually in the low-30s, and DIY matrix circuits usually worse than that (maybe 10-15 dB). 😊

My advice for getting 4.0 to "more" (if your speakers aren't doing a good job with phantom imaging or you have an extremely large area or what-have-you) would be to take a Pro Logic decoder and feed the front L/R into it, let it derive the center-channel, and then repeat that for the surrounds if you want 6.1 or what-have-you (just run "dual mono" if you want 7.1 instead of 6.1; again, that's how the majority of 7.1 systems work). If it supports a crossover for a sub that's a benefit, otherwise you'd likely need a crossover or a subwoofer that has some sort of processing capabilities.

Alternately, you could accomplish everything you want with miniDSP devices and appropriate plug-ins/code.

Sorry for the late reply, have been very very busy. Anyway....

obobskivich wrote:

Alternately, you could accomplish everything you want with miniDSP devices and appropriate plug-ins/code.

miniDSP is very interesting indeed, but not too many of them can take more than two analog inputs, except this one. With 8xin and 8xout, I guess you can also upmix 5.1 (Creative Audigy 1 - the latest EAX card that supports Windows 98) into 7.1.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Sorry for the late reply, have been very very busy. Anyway....

obobskivich wrote:

Alternately, you could accomplish everything you want with miniDSP devices and appropriate plug-ins/code.

miniDSP is very interesting indeed, but not too many of them can take more than two analog inputs, except this one. With 8xin and 8xout, I guess you can also upmix 5.1 (Creative Audigy 1 - the latest EAX card that supports Windows 98) into 7.1.

You'd probably need two of the 2x4 models for the A3D card - you'd have a "front" and a "rear" model, and each one would take stereo input and provide you with 3.1 output. It wouldn't actually "harm" anything - the matrix mixing doesn't need the surround (relatively speaking) channels to derive the center-channel or subwoofer output. 😀

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Sorry for the late reply, have been very very busy. Anyway....

obobskivich wrote:

Alternately, you could accomplish everything you want with miniDSP devices and appropriate plug-ins/code.

miniDSP is very interesting indeed, but not too many of them can take more than two analog inputs, except this one. With 8xin and 8xout, I guess you can also upmix 5.1 (Creative Audigy 1 - the latest EAX card that supports Windows 98) into 7.1.

You'd probably need two of the 2x4 models for the A3D card - you'd have a "front" and a "rear" model, and each one would take stereo input and provide you with 3.1 output. It wouldn't actually "harm" anything - the matrix mixing doesn't need the surround (relatively speaking) channels to derive the center-channel or subwoofer output. 😀

Imagine three A3D cards on the same PC: one as source unit, the other two as the upmix unit. 😁 That one miniDSP model is interesting though.

Anyway, does discrete analog, 7.1 audio switcher exist?

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Imagine three A3D cards on the same PC: one as source unit, the other two as the upmix unit. 😁 That one miniDSP model is interesting though.

A3D can gang like that? I knew M-Audio could, but wasn't aware of others. 😊

Anyway, does discrete analog, 7.1 audio switcher exist?

Yes, but they tend to cost $$$$. An easier solution is to use switches designed for audio/video, especially if they do component video - you can do up to 3 channels on a normal A/V switch, and five with component - that'd give you 8 for 7.1. Basic mechanical switches shouldn't cost too much to accomplish that; no degredation/etc of quality that I've ever noticed. 😀

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Imagine three A3D cards on the same PC: one as source unit, the other two as the upmix unit. 😁 That one miniDSP model is interesting though.

A3D can gang like that? I knew M-Audio could, but wasn't aware of others. 😊

Frankly I didn't know either. 😁

Well as long as the PCI slots are available (as well as the IRQ, DMA, etc), can it be done?

obobskivich wrote:

Anyway, does discrete analog, 7.1 audio switcher exist?

Yes, but they tend to cost $$$$. An easier solution is to use switches designed for audio/video, especially if they do component video - you can do up to 3 channels on a normal A/V switch, and five with component - that'd give you 8 for 7.1. Basic mechanical switches shouldn't cost too much to accomplish that; no degredation/etc of quality that I've ever noticed. 😀

I see, thanks. I've never found any 7.1 audio switcher on ebay, by the way, be it the expensive one or the cheap one.

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Frankly I didn't know either. 😁

Well as long as the PCI slots are available (as well as the IRQ, DMA, etc), can it be done?

No, I have no idea if it works with A3D hardware. 😊

On the M-Audio cards you could connect certain models (iirc they don't have to be identical, they just they have to support ganged operation) using their digital in/out and have more input/output options in the drivers. I think the max was 40 in/40 out on four cards, but I'm not aware of any sort of "upmixing" capabilities (that is, you very likely won't get 39.1 surround sound out of them, instead you'll just have 40 mono output channels to do with as you please, as they're designed for DAW applications - you can probably get 5.1 or 7.1 output just like with the E-MU cards though).

See more here from M-Audio:
http://www.maudio.com/index.php?do=support.fa … cc9e1f292fcb135
http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.f … 916639ed8454696

I see, thanks. I've never found any 7.1 audio switcher on ebay, by the way, be it the expensive one or the cheap one.

Stuff like this, if you have lots of money:
http://www.laaudiofile.com/mas3.html

Honestly I can't think of a good application for something like that though - most devices that actually output 6.1 or 7.1 sound can do so digitally (e.g. HDMI or ES/EX over S/PDIF), which is much simpler to hook up (and gets around the aforementioned management problems associated with most surround sound receivers/processors), so apart from hooking up an Audigy 2 ZS or some such, I can't actually think of anything that's doing 6.1 or 7.1 via analog only (meaning having a single input on your receiver would be good enough, and in the case of the Audigy 2 ZS you have all of the management/DSP available on the card, so it doesn't matter how "dumb" the receiver is about the multi-channel input (ideally it controls volume, but the card can do that too if needed)).

obobskivich wrote:

Honestly I can't think of a good application for something like that though - most devices that actually output 6.1 or 7.1 sound can do so digitally (e.g. HDMI or ES/EX over S/PDIF), which is much simpler to hook up (and gets around the aforementioned management problems associated with most surround sound receivers/processors),

Well, there is a problem though: old sound cards like Aureal 3D does not support Dolby Digital Live (real-time encoding to channel a game's surround sound output into a single S/PDIF). As such, the S/PDIF output (if any) is for stereo only. To get surround sound from games, you need to use its discrete analog outputs. That's why I'm looking for a (hopefully small and cheap) box that can encode discrete analogs into a single S/PDIF. If such box exist, I'll let the receiver handle the upmixing (from 4.0 to 5.1 or 7.1).

obobskivich wrote:

so apart from hooking up an Audigy 2 ZS or some such, I can't actually think of anything that's doing 6.1 or 7.1 via analog only (meaning having a single input on your receiver would be good enough, and in the case of the Audigy 2 ZS you have all of the management/DSP available on the card, so it doesn't matter how "dumb" the receiver is about the multi-channel input (ideally it controls volume, but the card can do that too if needed)).

As for the Audigy, the newest Audigy I would use is Audigy 1, since it's the last Creative card supported by Windows 98.

[quote="Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman"]
Well, there is a problem though: old sound cards like Aureal 3D does not support Dolby Digital Live (real-time encoding to channel a game's surround sound output into a single S/PDIF). As such, the S/PDIF output (if any) is for stereo only. To get surround sound from games, you need to use its discrete analog outputs. That's why I'm looking for a (hopefully small and cheap) box that can encode discrete analogs into a single S/PDIF. If such box exist, I'll let the receiver handle the upmixing (from 4.0 to 5.1 or 7.1).

Creative DTS-610 is probably the easiest option there. Like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Creative-Home-Theater … =item4ad5545b55

Another oddball thought, what about the Razer AC-1 sound-card? It does up to 7.1, claims to support A3D, and also claims to work in Windows 98SE/Me as well as XP/2000. Here's a link to the manual/documentation:
http://drivers.razersupport.com/index.php?_m= … 21&nav=0,78,,59

I've never personally used such a card, it's just something that came to mind while thinking about this.

obobskivich wrote:

Kreshna Aryaguna Nurzaman wrote:

Well, there is a problem though: old sound cards like Aureal 3D does not support Dolby Digital Live (real-time encoding to channel a game's surround sound output into a single S/PDIF). As such, the S/PDIF output (if any) is for stereo only. To get surround sound from games, you need to use its discrete analog outputs. That's why I'm looking for a (hopefully small and cheap) box that can encode discrete analogs into a single S/PDIF. If such box exist, I'll let the receiver handle the upmixing (from 4.0 to 5.1 or 7.1).

Creative DTS-610 is probably the easiest option there. Like this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Creative-Home-Theater … =item4ad5545b55

It doesn't ship to Indonesia . I hope there are similar devices, though. I wonder why such devices aren't popular.

obobskivich wrote:

Another oddball thought, what about the Razer AC-1 sound-card? It does up to 7.1, claims to support A3D, and also claims to work in Windows 98SE/Me as well as XP/2000. Here's a link to the manual/documentation:
http://drivers.razersupport.com/index.php?_m= … 21&nav=0,78,,59

I've never personally used such a card, it's just something that came to mind while thinking about this.

Interesting, though I have to re-hunt for the hardware. I thought my hunt for A3D has ended when I have three Diamond MX-300 sound cards. 🤣

By the way, this is entirely another thing (completely unrelated to upmixing A3D 4.0 to 7.1), are there wireless digital transport that can transmit multichannel audio? I have Googled for "wireless DAC", but all of them can only transmit digital signal in stereo.

I'm also interested in Xonar U3 sound card; it has Dolby Digital Live, so it can channel real-time generated discrete channel (such as games, as opposed to movies) through S/PDIF. On the other hand, many wireless DAC (transmitter/receiver pair) has S/PDIF input, so they merely act as transport when receiving from their S/PDIF. I wonder if one sends the Xonar U3's multichannel S/PDIF output into the wireless DAC's transmitter input; will the transmitter sends multichannel digital signal?

I'm not very familiar with the Xonar cards; I know they're based on C-Media chipsets and should have good performance, but beyond that I don't know much. Wireless - eh? I've got an old Sony system that does wireless stereo, and I've seen more modern ones from Arcam and similar; I think in theory your idea is sound (since Dolby Digital isn't any higher bitrate than PCM stereo from CD), but it may not work in principle. I know a lot of those devices tend to use some proprietary connector/receiver/etc that doesn't exactly take S/PDIF (I'm thinking of ones that connect via USB or some proprietary port on a receiver/CD player). So even if the wireless transmitter has the bandwidth, there's no way to get the signal into it. 😢

Depending on what you're doing, why not send the signal via WiFi to some sort of streaming receiver?

obobskivich wrote:

I'm not very familiar with the Xonar cards; I know they're based on C-Media chipsets and should have good performance, but beyond that I don't know much. Wireless - eh? I've got an old Sony system that does wireless stereo, and I've seen more modern ones from Arcam and similar; I think in theory your idea is sound (since Dolby Digital isn't any higher bitrate than PCM stereo from CD), but it may not work in principle. I know a lot of those devices tend to use some proprietary connector/receiver/etc that doesn't exactly take S/PDIF (I'm thinking of ones that connect via USB or some proprietary port on a receiver/CD player).

Well this is an example of the wireless DAC in question.

It's marketed as wireless DAC, but it also has S/PDIF input on the sender (transmitter), as well as S/PDIF output on the receiver, so I figure they work strictly as transport (the DAC is unused) when using the sender's S/PDIF input.

This is what the specs say:

Advantages of wireless
The D2 wireless system transmits bit-perfect PCM-stereo simultaneously to up to 3 receivers. This PCM stream is routed from/to the various components of the system (optical transmitter/receiver, USB controller, and DAC) via the I2S bus, which maintains data integrity throughout the system. Because the various source/sink components are segregated by the wireless subsystem, various anomalies which plague many wired DACs such as jitter, grounding, and induced cable noise are greatly reduced. In addition, the D2 allows the user to physically isolate a potentially noisy computer from the sensitive audio components in your system.

D2 and LAN
The D2 system divides the band between 2405 MHz and 2477 MHz into 37 discrete, 2 MHz wide channels. Channels numbered 2 through 38 inclusive are used for system operation. The system scans the spectrum and selects two channels that are 18 channels (or 36 mHz) apart and transmits with 50% of the time on one channel (for example channel 2) and 50% on the other channel (for example channel 20). The system stays on these selected channels until the error detection rate reaches a pre-determined level indicating deteriorating RF conditions. The system will then select a cleaner channel for transmission and move there without any drop in audio. In this way the D2 not only maintains it's own audio integrity, but co-exists nicely with other LAN devices.

So, the wireless can transmit 37 discrete, 2MHz wide channel, but channel 2 through 38 are used for system operations. Can it transmit discrete audio channels?

obobskivich wrote:

So even if the wireless transmitter has the bandwidth, there's no way to get the signal into it. 😢

Depending on what you're doing, why not send the signal via WiFi to some sort of streaming receiver?

What device can send discrete audio channel via general purpose wi-fi transmitter/receiver?

I'm not sure if the audioengine would send multi-channel or not. And for audio signals via WiFi, Koss does it for stereo, but I was thinking more along the lines of a netstreamer device that has a WiFi connection - it'd be basically independent. I'm not sure if that would accomplish what you're wanting though.

obobskivich wrote:

I'm not sure if the audioengine would send multi-channel or not. And for audio signals via WiFi, Koss does it for stereo, but I was thinking more along the lines of a netstreamer device that has a WiFi connection - it'd be basically independent. I'm not sure if that would accomplish what you're wanting though.

Ah, I found something interesting.

Audio Formats Supported
Uncompressed 5.1 PCM, DTS, Dolby Digital Surround Sound

So it could transmit both PCM and discrete Dolby Digital Channel. Fed by Dolby Digital Live S/PDIF output (like that of Xonar U3), then I'm good to go.

Problem is, it only has HDMI input on the transmitter/sender, as well as HDMI output on the receiver. If I'm using S/PDIF to HDMI converter on the input side, as well as HDMI to S/PDIF converter on the output side, will I lose sound channel information?

Also, if a wireless HDMI can support uncompressed 5.1 PCM, then it can support stereo PCM, can it?

Yes it should support stereo if it can do 5.1; I doubt an HDMI<->SPDIF box would be a problem. I do remember there was a graphics card a few years ago, I think a GeForce GTX 500 based card, that had wireless video output (it had multiple antennas to do this), and range was regarded as a problem/concern depending on where it was installed. Not sure if that would be a problem with that box or not.

obobskivich wrote:

Yes it should support stereo if it can do 5.1; I doubt an HDMI<->SPDIF box would be a problem.

Whew! I hope so, I hope the discrete digital audio channel generated by the Xonar U3 will stay discrete after being converted to HDMI.

obobskivich wrote:

I do remember there was a graphics card a few years ago, I think a GeForce GTX 500 based card, that had wireless video output (it had multiple antennas to do this), and range was regarded as a problem/concern depending on where it was installed. Not sure if that would be a problem with that box or not.

Distance won't be a problem, actually. 😁

You see, the source will be either my laptop or my would-be mini ITX system, which sits on my desk. I sit with my back facing the wall, with a cupboard placed next to the wall. The receiver will be put on the cupboard, behind me, alongside with the amp. The reason I want a wireless digital audio is because I don't want cables running from my desk in front of me to the cupboard behind me, so of course the distance would be short.

The speakers, by the way, is in front of me, about 2 meters from the front of my desk. Speaker cables do not worry me because I'm going to install cable ducting from the amplifier (next to the wall behind) to the speakers (next to the wall in front of me), which will run through the ceiling, so the floor will be untouched (nobody will trip on the ducting).

The problem is the cable from the source to the amplifier/receiver. I don't like cable running through the floor, and it will be quite impractical to have RCA or S/PDIF cables hanging from the ceiling. So hence, the wireless connection.

obobskivich wrote:

Yes it should support stereo if it can do 5.1; I doubt an HDMI<->SPDIF box would be a problem. I do remember there was a graphics card a few years ago, I think a GeForce GTX 500 based card, that had wireless video output (it had multiple antennas to do this), and range was regarded as a problem/concern depending on where it was installed. Not sure if that would be a problem with that box or not.

Anyway, some good news (bookmarked):

tlukkarila wrote:

Test came out positive. […]
Show full quote

Test came out positive.

As I thought, it worked like a dream. Here is the test setup:

JVC XV-S500 DVD Player
X-10 Wireless Video Transmitter (about 3 years old model)
Onkyo TX-DS575X Receiver

Digital Coax out is connected to Wireless Video in and in the other end Video out is connected to PCM Digital in. That simple!

With no problem receiver recognized the signal at the PCM input. Turning transmitter away from receiver causes loss of signal and sound mutes without cracks or other distortion. Re-alligning TX and RX leads to quick recovery.
I did not have change to run actual distance tests, but I bet it is better than video, which works thru walls and wooden floors.
Walking between the TX and RX does not cause any problems.

With this setup I could now set the DVD player close to my sofa with projector (minimize S-video cable length) and keep my receiver in the front close to speakers. Multi-room systems could use this too!?

I only tested one product combination, but since Digital Coax out is a standard and so is Video, I believe you should be able to make this work too.

Good Luck

cmcjo wrote:

That worked?
That's nice to know. So your A/V receiver on the receiving end of the dolby digital signal actually recognized the dd signal?.

I'm guessing you know this because your 5.1 lights on the A/V amp were nice and bright?

tlukkarila wrote:

Yes. I played both Dolby Digital and DTS movies. DTS I had more concern with due to much higher data rate (More sound information), but both worked fine.
Since this IS digital connection, any problems are likely to cause total muting of sound. When intentionally turning the transmitter off and then on, my receiver recovered very quickly showing Dolby Surround for a fraction of a second and then full 5.1 DD. Of course all channels were clear and audible.

Just picked up a digital mixer to hook up all my MIDI equipment and to compliment all the other Sony components I have in my stack.

This thing is amazing....it's a 'commercial grade' mixer that connects to a computer with USB and can be controlled by software as well as by manually adjusting front controls. It has a built in 150W x2 amp (and 200W x2 @ 4ohms), and it has all sorts of hook ups as well as video switching and even VGA (and of course- audio) switching between two computers.

I am planning on connecting my SC-88, SC-55, MT-32, MU50, SC-7, FB-01, and MT-300 to this mixer/amp. It supports surround sound if you connect amplifiers for the other speakers (1 for SUB and CENTER out and 1 for SURROUND L and R, and 1 other output is available for another set of speakers (in this case labelled ceiling speakers in the manual), and another for the option of just connecting an amp/receiver to it.

Here are some pics (I removed the metal rackmount 'ears' from the sides as I probably will not be mounting it in a rack)...

"for commercial use only"...🤣....I guess I better start a home based business before I use it 🤣

I am thinking of setting up one of my laptops as a dedicated controller for this...I wasn't planning on buying this but now that I have it, my plans for my overall setup has changed.

I just downloaded the manuals and software for this and apparently the software is designed to run on windows 95 all the way up to Vista 😀 , so that means I could finally make use of some of my old PII or PIII toshiba laptops I have stashed away and maybe just run the Win95 version (if I can get USB to work).

I have another mixer, but it is one of those 'top mount' DJ style thingys and I didn't know how it would fit with the rest of my system setup physically...

...but now that I have this rack mountable/standard component size Sony mixer, I can just stack it on top of my other components..and to boot, it matches all my components nicely since almost everything I have is Sony 😀 .