Could be bus related, but I doubt it's PCIe 1.1 vs 2.0. I ran a Radeon 4870X2 in a P965-based board for ages, and never faced the issue you're describing.

What your problem sounds like to me, is that the PCIe bus isn't being managed properly. Update your chipset drivers perhaps.

There is a documented issue with the 8800GT. But with this issue the machine won't POST at all.

Half the bandwidth sounds terrible on paper, but real life differences between 1.1 and 2.0 are tiny.

My anecdote: I've run both an 8800GT and a GTX 285 on the same PCIe 1.1 board (used it for ~4.5 years), and haven't ever noticed a problem. Maybe I missed out on some potential with the GTX 285 by limiting it to 1.1, but it still crunched anything that I threw at it, with no hiccups.

SquallStrife wrote:

What your problem sounds like to me, is that the PCIe bus isn't being managed properly. Update your chipset drivers perhaps.

I did. Funny thing being, there's no specific "PCIe" thing in the device manager, just nForce memory handlers and PCI stuff. Everything else isn't related. :/

One of my thoughts was maybe it was memory virtualization, but then the HD light never comes on when I get these problems.

Kill any background apps that might be hogging the cpu and any system ram. What card are you using and what model hard drive? Is the hard drive mostly used up? A slow hard drive that has the system page file (virtual memory) on that drive will and often will hurt the performance of modern games enough to be noticed. What model board and cpu that you are using?

OK, first, let me clarify something here: The exact problem I run into has nothing to do with HD access. As I said, the HD is NOT being accessed when my framerate dies, which means virtual memory is not an issue. I've also narrowed it down and can confirm these issues have nothing to do with only having 2 GB of RAM, and also nothing to do with my video card itself.

Secondly, we're not talking about consistently bad framerates. In certain games (Sonic Generations being the worst offender so far) the framerate will be a constant 30 to 60 FPS for the most part, and then at specific (sometimes random) moments, the framerate literally dies to about 0.5 to 1 for a moment, even if these moments are not graphically intensive. What makes this even more curious is that, if these moments are left alone long enough, despite no change in graphical intensity, the framerate shoots back up to where it should be, sometimes along with textures popping in that weren't previously there.

Lastly, I've seen reports of similar problems in any games which use CryEngine3, any games with texture streaming like Rage, and NEVER does anyone come up with a solution. (Unless the problem is with the streaming itself and not the framerate.) What really worries me about this is some people who have these problems have high-end systems, quad-cores at 3 GHz or higher, 4 to 8 GB of RAM, and a top-of-the-line video card. I have noted that almost everyone who has these problems though has a dual-core CPU.

As for my system components:

Motherboard: ASUS A8M2N-LA (HP Branded, not supported by ASUS)
CPU: AMD Athalon 64 X2 Dual-Core @ 2.00 GHz
GPU: GeForce 9800 GT /w 1 GB RAM
RAM: 2 GB @ 533 MHz
OS: Windows XP SP3

And again, I'm running the most recent drivers on all of this for the motherboard, audio (which is an internal RealTek thing), video, etc.

As for background apps/processes, there are none using any more than maybe 1% to 2% CPU power at random moments and 0% for the rest. In fact, I make it a point to leave background apps off by default and to only turn them on when I intend to use them. :P

I remember some articles Toms Hardware has created in some of their reviews on what is called micro-stuttering:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-ge … re,2995-15.html

They seem to indicate it's more of a Crossfire/SLI issue but I've seen the very same thing on my gaming rig with a single ATi/AMD 6970 GPU.

BigBodZod wrote:

I remember some articles Toms Hardware has created in some of their reviews on what is called micro-stuttering:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-ge … re,2995-15.html

They seem to indicate it's more of a Crossfire/SLI issue but I've seen the very same thing on my gaming rig with a single ATi/AMD 6970 GPU.

Microshutter isn't as big as a problem as they made it out to be. More like anti SLI and Crossfire propaganda. FPS just don't dip without there being a reason as to why and most certainly when such problems surface there is either driver or general performance related issues. Beyond that as I had said in a thread this morning on THG when the shutter issue comes up the problem is usually between the keyboard and the chair as people don't build their systems properly.

Back to this thread, when I last used those low clocked am2 dual cores I do remember there being some lag in general gaming. I resolved the problem by upgrading to a faster cpu that was able to reach decent clocks. At 2ghz I couldn't even get the most out of a x1900xt and was horrendous on a 8800gtx.

nforce4max wrote:

BigBodZod wrote:

I remember some articles Toms Hardware has created in some of their reviews on what is called micro-stuttering:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-ge … re,2995-15.html

They seem to indicate it's more of a Crossfire/SLI issue but I've seen the very same thing on my gaming rig with a single ATi/AMD 6970 GPU.

Microshutter isn't as big as a problem as they made it out to be. More like anti SLI and Crossfire propaganda. FPS just don't dip without there being a reason as to why and most certainly when such problems surface there is either driver or general performance related issues. Beyond that as I had said in a thread this morning on THG when the shutter issue comes up the problem is usually between the keyboard and the chair as people don't build their systems properly.

Back to this thread, when I last used those low clocked am2 dual cores I do remember there being some lag in general gaming. I resolved the problem by upgrading to a faster cpu that was able to reach decent clocks. At 2ghz I couldn't even get the most out of a x1900xt and was horrendous on a 8800gtx.

Could be an issue with the CPU speed, but I do have an AMD Phenom 2/955 which runs at 3.2GHz along with 8GB of DDR3 Ram along with Win 7 Pro x64-bit Edition, should have enough horsepower but I still see stuttering in games from time to time.

Of course I do tend to turn up all the Eye Candy as I want to see it all so I basically live with it as it doesn't occur very often.

So you comments about the CPU speed has more to do with the game being CPU limited rather then GPU limited.

Do you see that some gaming engines are better optimized for one GPU and/or CPU combination then others ?

Definitely time to upgrade 😀

A second hand Sandy Bridge Board and a cheap dual core Pentium and you are set. Sometimes newer cards simply don't mix with older boards. Could also be a chipset/BIOS update issue seeing this is an HP board likey not optimised for gaming.

If all your drivers and motherboard bios is updated to the latest, then the only problem that I can see is that maybe the games are too much for your system.

I ran an Athlon X2 + 8800GT combo back in the day, and the Athlon even at that speed was definitely holding the 8800GT back. At 2ghz, definitely expect some stuttering.

Also, on the subject of upgrading, I used to be a a subscriber of yearly upgrades, going with mid or lower end parts, but after years of doing so, I've come to the conclusion that it's better to make the sacrifice and go high-end. At least then you'll get 3 years of high-end performance and 5-6 years of useful life out of the system.

So I'd recommend an i7 or at the least a 3570k/ 2500k + Radeon 7850/ GTX 660 Ti upwards. Don't skimp on the motherboard, it makes all the difference between an "alright" system and a great one.

At present, my CPU is almost as powerful as the motherboard will accept. I'd pretty much have to get a new system if I wanted to upgrade at all and the only way I'm going to be able to get a new computer anytime soon is if I save up my spare cash for the next 4 years or not eat anything at all for four months straight. >_<;

I see the "upgrade your system" arguement a lot but there's something to consider here: In order to hit 30 to 60 FPS at all in any game, there needs to be a constant and consistent transmission of data between the CPU and GPU. If a system is not powerful enough to run a game, the framerate should be less overall, NOT super-high one moment and a slideshow the next given the exact same graphical intensity in-game, because it is physically impossible to maintain a super-high FPS even for just a moment if the CPU or GPU are being overtaxed.

As for modern games I have no framerate problems at all with, Duke Nukem Forever and Skyrim both come to mind, and those are some pretty graphically intensive games. They both do stream textures from the HD, but they're not constantly swapping stuff in and out, only in as needed and only out when loading new areas.

And again, my HD light never goes on during framerate deaths in other modern games.

...maybe modern games are just programmed really ineffciently because the programmers don't truly realize how much power their code is using. >_>;

All you need is a second hand CPU, RAM, Mainboard bundle. Something based on AM3 with DDR3 should be very cheap to source. On eBay look for the group "Component Bundles".

I am still surprised you are going well with 2GB of Ram. Ages ago I had a machine with an Athlon X2, Geforce 9600GT and it was struggling with games. Ram is cheap as chips at the moment.

Do a sponsor thread, if each of us donates you 10 bucks you will have your upgrade soon 😀

I remember having this issue a LONG time ago. It was my sound card doing it. I know it sounds funny, but I remember updating my audio driver and it going away.

Also, skyrim on 2gb of ram? I'll admit, I was shocked to hear that. I suggest taking up a collection.

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

All you need is a second hand CPU, RAM, Mainboard bundle. Something based on AM3 with DDR3 should be very cheap to source. On eBay look for the group "Component Bundles".

All I could find were new motherboard+CPU combos, which kinda helps but I'm still left with the problem of updating the RAM, the OS, the graphics card... >_>;

We're still looking at 2 to 3 years of saving or 2 to 3 months of fasting. :P

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

I am still surprised you are going well with 2GB of Ram. Ages ago I had a machine with an Athlon X2, Geforce 9600GT and it was struggling with games. Ram is cheap as chips at the moment.

Being on 32-bit Windows XP still there's little reason to go above 2 GB of RAM. Few programs will be able to address the extra amount. :P

2 GB is still plenty for most games, contrary to popular belief. Graphics are typically uploaded to the video card's own RAM, leaving sound, music and game data for the system RAM. Windows also virtualizes and prioritizes memory better than might be expected, and will syphon anything that hasn't recently been accessed into virtual to make more physical RAM space available for active programs. (Though there are options you can set to alter this behaviour.)

Mau1wurf1977 wrote:

Do a sponsor thread, if each of us donates you 10 bucks you will have your upgrade soon

XD

Truly, I don't want to make myself out to be a beggar or anything. I make do with what I got; it's the way it's always been for me. That's why I was still writing Windows 98 software when Windows Vista was just coming onto the scene.

Being a game programmer, it really bothers me when I see a game that should have no difficulty running on my system given what it's doing and how it looks, and yet its framerate manages to elude common sense. And then I see other people with the same problem and no solutions and I have to wonder what the heck is going on. I investigate, try to come up with explanations, see what people think... and often still don't get anywhere. x_x;

I did a test awhile back and calculated that given my own system qualities, using the latest hardware-accelerated Allegro Game Programming Libraries, I can render 10,000 sprites to the screen at once and still maintain 60 FPS. So I'm building my next game with this in mind in order to minimize the number of sprite draws that have to be made in one frame. If everything works out, the absolute most my game should ever have to handle in a single frame will be about 2,000, five times less than what my system can handle.

luckybob wrote:

Also, skyrim on 2gb of ram? I'll admit, I was shocked to hear that.

Windows XP doesn't have nearly as huge a RAM overhead as Vista/7, plus 32-bit addressing requires less of a memory overhead than 64-bit addressing, so if you're on a 64-bit system or using Vista or 7, 2 GB of RAM wouldn't be enough. :P

On 32-Bit XP though, 2 GB is plenty. Besides, due to limitations in how XP works, it's hard to really do any better. >_>;

Apparently you haven't played Civilization V. That game can bring my dual processor 12-core beast to its knees. It consumes a good 4gb of ram on my system, and at peak I've seen it crunch my 12 cores to average 90% total usage.

That said, look at getting an i5 2500K setup. Its probably 3-4 times faster than what you have, ram is CHEAP AS SIN. Your old video card is okay. My 5870 is finally showing its age, and the 7000 series is old news. Depends on your budget really, but if you want to put yourself on the other side of the bell curve, expect 5-6 hundred.

I personally ride the wave of cutting edge, LAST generation server hardware. I have the cpu capacity of an overclocked i7 chip, but I paid about HALF as much for it by buying used server parts.

Well, as a programmer, I have a little over a year and a half left before I have to abandon XP or once again fall too far behind everything, and the last thing I want to do is spend hundreds on upgrades that aren't going to last me very long and may or may not solve my problems... and doesn't negate the fact that these problems I originally spoke of shouldn't really exist given proper programming techniques. >_>;

My budget is next to nothing. I have to plan ahead and save up anytime I want to buy something worth more than $10 or so. I started saving up for Christmas shopping in August since I have six people to buy for this year.

afaik, anything that can be done in xp can be done in windows 7.

That said, I Hate microsoft. They screwed me on vista and I've pirated my OS ever since. Keep in mind I bought 3.1,95,98,2k,xp and then vista. So i'm what I would consider a "loyal" customer. I'm not new to computers. My first one was a ti-99/4a. So i've seen 8" disks and cassette programs all the way to today. The one problem with windows 7 is this; For all intents and purposes, its perfect.

I honestly cant find a flaw in it worth complaining about, and I'm the type of person that can nit pick anything. I honestly cant remember windows crashing on me. aside from a ram upgrade, my system had been on 24/7 for i know at least 6 months. I also HATE dicking around with software, and every version of windows came with some sort of quirk that I had to play with in the registry or something. W7 has just worked. I honestly believe its probably the best thing to come out of microsoft and I HATE THEM.

They kinda shot themselves in the foot with w8, but that's a whole other can of worms.

The problem with upgrading what you have is, everything needs upgraded. If you went with a faster video card, the power supply will need and update too (i'm assuming you still have the original 250w thing installed) its best to sell what you have and use it on a new box.

naturally, you do what your budget will allow. I'm unemployed and I run out of benefits here soon. I fix and upgrade laptops on craigslist for people. Its not much because there are 100 other people doing it, but it gives me enough spending cash that I can afford an upgrade every 6 months or so. Case in point, I got lucky on ebay and I bought 32gb of ram for my computer and only paid $100. It took me 4 laptops to pay for that, but it was worth it.

OK, if you're on a tight budget then total upgrades are out of the question. Some things to investigate- is your power supply up to the job of handling a 9800GT? You need something better than generic crap to run it. Also, you might wanna look for a better AM2+ motherboard. I don't know what are the sites available in Canada for this- ebay perhaps? Don't go oem this time. Get another 2 sticks of ddr2. Windows XP 32 bit will see 3.25gb but that extra 1.25gb will go some way towards making your gaming experience smoother. Lastly overclock everything- the vid card, cpu and ram.