Eye of the Beholder
Having just completed Lands of Lore, I decided to travel back in time and play the game that most inspired it.

It uses the AD&D rules of course, so right away it's more complex than LoL. You start by creating a full party, and all the AD&D options are there. I did some research before starting, and apparently a lot of the AD&D mechanics are actually not even really implemented... so it's best to treat this as a spiritual successor to Dungeon Master.

To cover all bases, I created a Dwarf Fighter/Thief, Human Paladin, Human Cleric, and Human Magic User. Because its an action game, I didn't care about rolling stats fairly; I just used the modify option to give everyone 18s in their most important ability scores. I "fully" explored level 1 and level 2, though based on the map that came with the game, the majority of level 2 is inaccessible at this point... I assume I'll come back there from level 3.

The interface (especially for inventory) is a lot better than LoL, and combat feels a bit more tactical with a four-character party and all the spells you have access to even from the start. Although I appreciated the automap in LoL, it's fun to be drawing maps on graph paper again. So far, I'm really enjoying this one!

EOB 1 and 2 are the pinnacles of the genre IMO.

newtmonkey wrote on 2023-06-25, 04:03:

Eye of the Beholder Having just completed Lands of Lore, I decided to travel back in time and play the game that most inspired i […]
Show full quote

Eye of the Beholder
Having just completed Lands of Lore, I decided to travel back in time and play the game that most inspired it.

It uses the AD&D rules of course, so right away it's more complex than LoL. You start by creating a full party, and all the AD&D options are there. I did some research before starting, and apparently a lot of the AD&D mechanics are actually not even really implemented... so it's best to treat this as a spiritual successor to Dungeon Master.

To cover all bases, I created a Dwarf Fighter/Thief, Human Paladin, Human Cleric, and Human Magic User. Because its an action game, I didn't care about rolling stats fairly; I just used the modify option to give everyone 18s in their most important ability scores. I "fully" explored level 1 and level 2, though based on the map that came with the game, the majority of level 2 is inaccessible at this point... I assume I'll come back there from level 3.

The interface (especially for inventory) is a lot better than LoL, and combat feels a bit more tactical with a four-character party and all the spells you have access to even from the start. Although I appreciated the automap in LoL, it's fun to be drawing maps on graph paper again. So far, I'm really enjoying this one!

Be careful with your ONE save. Back it up regularly. I guess if you're playing on an emulator, it's more automated. I was playing on original hardware and got myself in a pickle and my previous save backup was far enough back in my progress that I didn't think it was worth it enough and ended up DNF. I wasn't enjoying the game as much as I'd hoped at that point, so it was easy to walk away. I think I had invested 10-15 hours up to that point.

clueless1 wrote on 2023-06-25, 11:00:

Be careful with your ONE save. Back it up regularly. I guess if you're playing on an emulator, it's more automated. I was playing on original hardware and got myself in a pickle and my previous save backup was far enough back in my progress that I didn't think it was worth it enough and ended up DNF. I wasn't enjoying the game as much as I'd hoped at that point, so it was easy to walk away. I think I had invested 10-15 hours up to that point.

I am definitely backing up that one save! I wrote a really simple batch file I run after I finish playing for the day, so in the worst case scenario, I'll only lose an hour or so of progress. 😀

Did you play/like any of the other Dungeon Master clones?

newtmonkey wrote on 2023-06-25, 11:15:

clueless1 wrote on 2023-06-25, 11:00:

Be careful with your ONE save. Back it up regularly. I guess if you're playing on an emulator, it's more automated. I was playing on original hardware and got myself in a pickle and my previous save backup was far enough back in my progress that I didn't think it was worth it enough and ended up DNF. I wasn't enjoying the game as much as I'd hoped at that point, so it was easy to walk away. I think I had invested 10-15 hours up to that point.

I am definitely backing up that one save! I wrote a really simple batch file I run after I finish playing for the day, so in the worst case scenario, I'll only lose an hour or so of progress. 😀

Did you play/like any of the other Dungeon Master clones?

I never fully played the original DM or its sequel, but there are other similar titles I really enjoyed:
Lands of Lore
Anvil of Dawn
Stonekeep
Legend of Grimrock

In general I'm not a fan of real-time clicky combat (if it's going to be real-time, I'd prefer the combat to be simple) but I liked each of those 4 games above enough to complete them. I still have EOB2 and 3 on my playlist for some day.

clueless1 wrote on 2023-06-25, 13:01:

I never fully played the original DM or its sequel, but there are other similar titles I really enjoyed: Lands of Lore Anvil of […]
Show full quote

I never fully played the original DM or its sequel, but there are other similar titles I really enjoyed:
Lands of Lore
Anvil of Dawn
Stonekeep
Legend of Grimrock

In general I'm not a fan of real-time clicky combat (if it's going to be real-time, I'd prefer the combat to be simple) but I liked each of those 4 games above enough to complete them. I still have EOB2 and 3 on my playlist for some day.

I don't think you've posted about Stonekeep here... what were your thoughts on it? It seems pretty intriguing (I like the somewhat cheesy digitized graphics), but every time I give it a shot I give up quickly into it, because it feels like you can screw yourself and run out of healing herbs if you aren't careful.

newtmonkey wrote on 2023-06-25, 13:08:

I don't think you've posted about Stonekeep here... what were your thoughts on it? It seems pretty intriguing (I like the somewhat cheesy digitized graphics), but every time I give it a shot I give up quickly into it, because it feels like you can screw yourself and run out of healing herbs if you aren't careful.

I'll chime in as well, since Stonekeep is one of my favorite childhood games.

It has solid voice acting and some nice cinematics too. The intro is great in particular, and will stay forever burned into my mind. Music is also fantastic, with a lot of variation based on your current location. It's very nice in FM synth mode (that's how I experienced it as a kid) with actual OPL3 stereo use, but if you want it to really shine, play it on a Roland Sound Canvas. Some tracks include special effects like "heartbeat" that don't sound correct on most non-Roland devices. If you want an example, here's one of the music tracks from early in the game, recorded on my SC-155.

Combat is real-time hack & slash, with some magic thrown in for good measure as you progress further into the game. There are some non-combat spells like read languages and teleportation circle, but the rest are pretty much buffs, healing and damage. You also get to combine specific runes with other spells which can power them up further. It's a pretty neat system.

The game is pretty much a pure dungeon crawl, with only a few non-combat areas that you can visit. It also puts a lot of focus a on exploration, puzzle solving (there are some pretty clever ones) and finding secret areas. It can be pretty fun if you're into that sort of thing. The journal has an auto-map feature which updates as you explore.

Gameplay wise, you level up by using combat skills. For example, equip a shield and block an attack several times, and your skill goes up. Same for weapons, use swords a lot and the relevant skill will improve. Companions come with their own set of skills which you can't influence. They are a fun bunch, though you don't get too much choice about who gets into your party.

Overall, it's a pretty enjoyable game from the mid '90s. If you're into Interplay RPGs like Fallout and Baldur's Gate, this is what came before that, and some of the same influences can be felt.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-06-25, 14:04:

I'll chime in as well, since Stonekeep is one of my favorite childhood games. […]
Show full quote

I'll chime in as well, since Stonekeep is one of my favorite childhood games.

It has solid voice acting and some nice cinematics too. The intro is great in particular, and will stay forever burned into my mind. Music is also fantastic, with a lot of variation based on your current location. It's very nice in FM synth mode (that's how I experienced it as a kid) but if you want it to really shine, play it on a Roland Sound Canvas. Some tracks include special effects like "heartbeat" that don't sound correct on most non-Roland devices. If you want an example, here's one of the music tracks from early in the game, recorded on my SC-155.

Combat is real-time hack & slash, with some magic thrown in for good measure as you progress further into the game. There are some non-combat spells like read languages and teleportation circle, but the rest are pretty much buffs, healing and damage. You also get to combine specific runes with other spells which can power them up further. It's a pretty neat system.

The game is pretty much a pure dungeon crawl, with only a few non-combat areas that you can visit. It also puts a lot of focus a on exploration, puzzle solving (there are some pretty clever ones) and finding secret areas. It can be pretty fun if you're into that sort of thing. The journal has an auto-map feature which updates as you explore.

Gameplay wise, you level up by using combat skills. For example, equip a shield and block an attack several times, and your skill goes up. Same for weapons, use swords a lot and the relevant skill will improve. Companions come with their own set of skills which you can't influence. They are a fun bunch, though you don't get too much choice about who gets into your party.

Overall, it's a pretty enjoyable game from the mid '90s. If you're into Interplay RPGs like Fallout and Baldur's Gate, this is what came before that, and some of the same influences can be felt.

Sounds like a lot of fun (and the music clip sounds awesome)! Maybe I will play it after I complete Eye of the Beholder. 😀

newtmonkey wrote on 2023-06-25, 14:21:

Sounds like a lot of fun (and the music clip sounds awesome)! Maybe I will play it after I complete Eye of the Beholder. 😀

One more thing, before I forget.

There's a special item that you find very early on which shows a small part of the map around you when activated, including any secrets. This can be very helpful to find hidden rooms and such. In fact, there's an optional level that's completely hidden which you can easily miss if you don't search the previous area thoroughly and follow the hints which explain how to access it.

newtmonkey wrote on 2023-06-25, 13:08:

clueless1 wrote on 2023-06-25, 13:01:

I never fully played the original DM or its sequel, but there are other similar titles I really enjoyed: Lands of Lore Anvil of […]
Show full quote

I never fully played the original DM or its sequel, but there are other similar titles I really enjoyed:
Lands of Lore
Anvil of Dawn
Stonekeep
Legend of Grimrock

In general I'm not a fan of real-time clicky combat (if it's going to be real-time, I'd prefer the combat to be simple) but I liked each of those 4 games above enough to complete them. I still have EOB2 and 3 on my playlist for some day.

I don't think you've posted about Stonekeep here... what were your thoughts on it? It seems pretty intriguing (I like the somewhat cheesy digitized graphics), but every time I give it a shot I give up quickly into it, because it feels like you can screw yourself and run out of healing herbs if you aren't careful.

I pretty much agree with everything @Joseph_Joestar said. But my comments on this game take place between pages 67-70 in this thread. First post:
Re: What game are you playing now?

And here is my post-game synopsis:
Re: List the PC games that you have beaten

I really do recommend you give it another go. I think you will fall in love with it within a few hours. 😀

clueless1 wrote on 2023-06-25, 14:32:

I pretty much agree with everything @Joseph_Joestar said. But my comments on this game take place between pages 67-70 in this t […]
Show full quote

I pretty much agree with everything @Joseph_Joestar said. But my comments on this game take place between pages 67-70 in this thread. First post:
Re: What game are you playing now?

And here is my post-game synopsis:
Re: List the PC games that you have beaten

I really do recommend you give it another go. I think you will fall in love with it within a few hours. 😀

This has rocketed up my list now. 😀
I'll probably take a break from Dungeon Master clones after I complete Eye of the Beholder to play a turn-based RPG, but will probably play Stonekeep after that! Thanks to both of you for your thoughts.

I've started, for who know how many times, again playing American McGee's Alice. I've always passed through a few levels, but then I tore down the machine before I could finish. It's been like that since 2000. I plan to finish it this time. The platforming and combat are nothing to write home about, but the atmosphere, graphics, and acting (from what I have witnessed so far) are worth the effort. I'm in the 'Skool' now. I think the library is the furthest I've ventured.

Having recently revamped my Voodoo3 rig, I figure it's time to give it a proper test. A quick playthrough of Diablo II in Glide mode seems like a good way to put the system through its paces. I already played it on this rig a few years back, but that was before the motherboard, CPU, SSD and sound card upgrades. Also, I'm curious about its surround sound implementation, so I plugged a set of 5.1 speakers into the Audigy2. Let's see if all that makes a difference.

I forgot how annoying it was to do a full install of Diablo II. The installer asks for each CD at least twice during the process, and it takes ages to complete. Also, it wants different CDs at the most random times. Like, you finally insert the LoD expansion thinking it's over, but then it suddenly needs your Play Disc for some reason. Of course, after that you have to re-insert the expansion disc to finish up. Whoever designed that hideous installer didn't care about user experience at all.

Anyway, I'm going with a Werewolf Druid this time around. Not sure if I ever finished the game with one of those, so might as well do it now. I'll be using the /players 8 setting which significantly increases enemy health, but also makes them give out more XP. That way, I can get to higher levels without having to deal with the various penalties of the Nightmare and Hell difficulties. Should make for a nice, quick run.

Re: American McGee's Alice; I made it out of the Fortress/Skool level, for the first time ever, and into the Vale of Tears level. So far, still good.

Duke 3d
Settlers 1
a little bit of Lemmings too

I started to play Jagged Alliance 2 for the first time since I bought the game back in february of 2000. I played my original copy on my asus p2b system with p3 800 mhz and the gog version on my modern ryzen 3 rig.

It was almost I played 2 different games. On my retro rig the bullets were flying in normal speed while on the gog version the bullets were almost flying in slow mo.

That was a really funny bug. I will finish the game now on my retro machine of course.

There might be solutions for the bug on modern pcs but why bother when the game runs like out of the box on my p3 system.

I'm now in Wonderland (Woods). Alice is keeping me motivated to continue with rich and colorful levels, light combat, puzzles, and platforming. I just picked up the 'Jackbomb,' which made short work of the Duchess. Moving around the levels, my weapon of choice has been the 'Mallet' and its Croquet Ball projectile.

Still playing Diablo II, just arrived in Act 2. This part of the game was always my favorite. The outdoor areas are bright, the enemies are interesting and the music is superb. On that note, surround sound is used by the game, but it's not very prominent. As expected, NPC speech comes from the center channel, but you rarely hear something from the rear speakers. It does sometimes happen when your hireling takes out an enemy from off-screen, or when you're walking past a body of water, but that's about it. Kind of expected for an isometric game, since positional audio obviously works best from the first-person perspective. Also, EAX does appear to be used in caves and crypts, but it's very subdued and not as effective as it could be.

Overall, Diablo II runs great on my AthlonXP + Voodoo3 system in Glide mode. No stutters or hitches, and the loading times are very fast, thanks to the SSD. I'm only using patch 1.10 though, since it was released in 2003 and was probably among the last ones to get proper testing under Win9x. I know it's possible to go higher than that, but I don't really see the point for single-player.

Joseph_Joestar wrote on 2023-07-01, 12:07:

I'm only using patch 1.10 though, since it was released in 2003 and was probably among the last ones to get proper testing under Win9x. I know it's possible to go higher than that, but I don't really see the point for single-player.

I have this game on my list to play. The furthest I’ve gotten is a full install and wandering around for a few minutes when the game starts.

I’m guessing you’re aware, but for those whom may not:

If a full install with expansion cinematics was performed, then all MPQ files from all CDs can be copied to the disk as the CD check is officially removed at patch level 1.12.

Meatball wrote on 2023-07-01, 12:31:

I have this game on my list to play. The furthest I’ve gotten is a full install and wandering around for a few minutes when the game starts.

You're going to have a blast! I first played it on release, with a poor little Celeron 333, 64 MB RAM, a TNT2 and some slow and cheap Quantum mechanical HDD. It was a stutter fest, but I still loved every second of it! 😀

I’m guessing you’re aware, but for those whom may not:

If a full install with expansion cinematics was performed, then all MPQ files from all CDs can be copied to the disk as the CD check is officially removed at patch level 1.12.

Yeah, they removed the CD check in 1.12. But you can manually copy over the MPQ files, even with older patches. In that case, the game simply performs a CD check at launch, and then never accesses the CD-ROM drive again.