It's a fine line that's for sure. I do have multiples of things that would be hard to replace if one died, e.g. motherboards I'm fond of, but it's gotta have a purpose - I have the hoarding gene so I carefully clean, store, and catalogue my stuff to keep it under control.

Come to think of it, with all this hoarding avoidance I think I've developed OCD. Crap.

Guilty as charged. Although I've really scaled back my collecting lately.

I'm thinking of getting rid of a bunch of stuff but most of it isn't really interesting or is very common. It's usually not worth the hassle of selling it because you'd get a token amount for it, but its too good to just throw in the trash.

I was definitely a hoarder in the very beginning of my hardware collection! I took virtually everything home with me so I had to make cuts at the very beginning (only 386 and up, only clone AT and ATX in standard cases, no IBM's no macs etc).

These days I barely buy any computer equipment. I'm lucky in that I have the room to put all my stuff without it clogging up every room in my house 🤣! And anyway I live alone, so no wife/kids that need the room otherwise so I can do whatever I want 😜

It's definitely a fine line!

I tend to only buy/get what I think I might need (doesn't that sound like hoarding? 🤣) but at one point I decided I had to make choices of what to get and what to leave alone/not to get. It's mostly limited by what I can spend and these days I have more important things to spend my money on then even more computer equipment, but I do go on a buying spree very once in a while.

What is important to me is this: Does it make me happy or does it enslave me? The answer to that question isn't black or white. These days my retrobug only bites me maybe once a year or even less, so I'll be busy with my retrostuff for a month or 2 and after that I loose interest again...but when the bug bites me again and I enter my attic for the first time in a while I think "wow....it's just like a retro computer shop in here and it's all mine! muahahaha!" so the overall feel for me is that (at this time at least) it is still positive for me.

But I need to keep things in check because I tend to bring down all kinds of stuff and little projects from the attic into my living room, start with 5 projects at once and I maybe just might finish one 🤣.

For me the challenge is more to keep the place tidy and less to not get too much "new" stuff.

And at any rate, my attic is well stocked but theres always room for a little bit more...a little bit.

I'm a bit of a packrat and more on the bachelor-y side of cleanliness for my home. I clean daily but things still manage to look cluttered. My office currently looks like a computer recycling facility, though.

I'm trying to organize and tidy things up as much as I can, because when you don't know for sure what you've got, it leads to you buying the same damn thing again by accident.

I try to purge unnecessary things from my life as often as I can. Its difficult with the electronic gear, though, because you usually have a narrow window to sell it. Then it becomes clutter. After a long enough period, it is someone's retro system. 😉

I'm currently fighting the desire to get the gear to put together a 486 vlb system. I have a P-Pro and a regular 486dx2-66, my Tandy and my more modern systems. There really isn't anything I could do with the VLB system that I wouldn't be able to do with the P-Pro, though. But, the back of my mind I keep thinking "you may not be able to get the parts, if you wait long enough". Still, I have no practical use for it, most of my DOS games with the exception of 1 or 2 are from 95-99, so there is not a huge need to put together a 486 VLB system. I just can't get over that feeling that it may be impossible to get the parts later on. Or, more likely, get them at a price that I would care to pay.

And ultimately, other than the feeling of tinkering with the retro hardware itself, I'm sure in 5 years time any $200 budget box will be able to emulate anything I could possibly care to mess with. I don't like the current trend of games heading towards movie type experiences or shooters on rails, and there is a huge backlog of stuff I have yet to get to, so I could see myself being perfectly fine with 3 or 4 systems, one of them being a daily driver. And at least with Windows boxes, particularly internet connected machines, it seems like there is so much damn maintenance, so there is definitely a point where the things start to "own" you.

I like to keep a healthy balance. But then again, every one in my house has a mid to top of the line PC in it for my Home Theater. I only recently got bit by the retro bug. But I'm basically building to play certain games. Once that is accomplished, I'll get bored and move on. Then come back again. A wonderful cycle.

If the supply dries up and prices skyrocket, then retroactively it was not hoarding but a shrewd business decision to stockpile a future classic 😵 But you need a crystal ball to know which way it will go. I wish that I had "hoarded" some GUSses and high-end 440BX boards and left all Socket 7 stuff at the curb.

With some discipline and even more OCD you can be quantitative about determining whether a potential acquisition is worth the space it will take up and the work that it will create.

I have a very strong case of wanting to buy something cool I see it every time. But then stuff piles up and I spend more time organizing / repairing / installing (which I enjoy until I get frustrated) than actually playing old games (which I really enjoy). So I usually sell a few items every week. Finding somewhat rare items and bringing them to the retro community is something I really enjoy.

The other factor in life is the $ amount tied up in the hobby and the space it takes up. I have a few closets where I store stuff. I have to keep stuff out of sight. Until we had kids I had 1000 square feet available with 3 full size dining room tables. Now my hobby space is reduced to 1 reduced size dining room table. And even there my wife will comment that it looks messy and that it is all worthless junk. 😵

There's nothing wrong with hoarding. You never know when a part may fail and you need a backup. If you don't stock up on them when you can find them cheap, then you'll end up paying more later after all the cheap parts have been bought up by people like me. 😁

MatureTech wrote:

If the supply dries up and prices skyrocket, then retroactively it was not hoarding but a shrewd business decision to stockpile a future classic 😵 But you need a crystal ball to know which way it will go. I wish that I had "hoarded" some GUSses and high-end 440BX boards and left all Socket 7 stuff at the curb.

With some discipline and even more OCD you can be quantitative about determining whether a potential acquisition is worth the space it will take up and the work that it will create.

I like predicting if something is worthwhile to keep/get or is something can be missed. I'm not always right (I wish I was 🤣) but it's part of the fun for me.
We could even make an entire topic about this 😜

Some of the stuff I collected turned out to be not so very special after 12 years (like ordinary Socket 7 AT boards) and some turned out to become really wanted (like working 486 boards). Right now a good investment seem to be the early Athlon64 stuff as it is practically given away and parts are cheaper then Socket 478 stuff (especially the boards with that 865 chipset and HT northwoords). High-end and mid-range AGP cards (the latest nvidia and similar ati's) seem to be quite cheap in The Netherlands at the moment (unless you buy them from a commercial reseller, I tend to ignore the commercial ones that ask like 30 euro's for a used FX5200 AGP).

I am hording socket 939 Nforce4 motherboards.
I think that socket 939 will be the last retro collectible platform.
Socket AM2 and socket 775 are so common that they will never be hard to find or expensive.
And the high quality of the boards will make sure they last forever.

Socket 939 on the other hand was late in the cap plauge and most non Asus or DFI boards are already long gone.
It was the last era AMD could could compete against Intel.
The Nforce4 platform is also extremly fun to play with.

I am betting on that 5 years from now a working Nforce 4 board will be worth $50.
So I am buying all $10 - $15 Nforce4 boards in good condition I can find.
I am at least sure that I will get my money back 😀.

Skyscraper wrote:

I am hording socket 939 Nforce4 motherboards. I think that socket 939 will be the last retro collectible platform. Socket AM2 […]
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I am hording socket 939 Nforce4 motherboards.
I think that socket 939 will be the last retro collectible platform.
Socket AM2 and socket 775 are so common that they will never be hard to find or expensive.
And the high quality of the boards will make sure they last forever.

Socket 939 on the other hand was late in the cap plauge and most non Asus or DFI boards are already long gone.
It was the last era AMD could could compete against Intel.
The Nforce4 platform is also extremly fun to play with.

I am betting on that 5 years from now a working Nforce 4 board will be worth $50.
So I am buying all $10 - $15 Nforce4 boards in good condition I can find.
I am at least sure that I will get my money back 😀.

I think the boards with PCI-E (both s754 and s939) will be wanted more then the AGP variants. Compare it to VLB and PCI on Socket 3 boards, but that's just my thought. Funny I mention this as virtually all the A64 boards I got come with AGP 🤣.

And what I find enjoyable is that sometimes something turns out to run in a totally different way then one would have expected.

Tetrium wrote:

I think the boards with PCI-E (both s754 and s939) will be wanted more then the AGP variants. Compare it to VLB and PCI on Socket 3 boards, but that's just my thought. Funny I mention this as virtually all the A64 boards I got come with AGP 🤣.

And what I find enjoyable is that sometimes something turns out to run in a totally different way then one would have expected.

I have one of those rare Nforce4 PCI-E socket 754 motherboards in working condition and a dead one aswell.
I agree on the PCI-E over AGP when it comes to Athlon 64 but I do own a few Nforce3 boards, both socket 754 and 939.
I also have a few VIA boards but those are dumpster finds every single one of them.

The boards I activly look for are the Asus Nforce4 SLI boards or any DFI board.
I have had good luck with cheap Asus SLI boards, not so much with cheap DFI boards 😀.
I do also buy any cheap working socket 939 board with ATI RD480 or RD580 chipset.

Its not easy to predict the future, that is why I only buy really cheap boards or boards I want to play with my self.
On the other hand I trust the bank even less than my ability to predict the future.

snorg wrote:

And ultimately, other than the feeling of tinkering with the retro hardware itself, I'm sure in 5 years time any $200 budget box will be able to emulate anything I could possibly care to mess with.

This is partially why I'm so interested in later Windows machines. Those systems are so complicated, and so many components are proprietary or poorly-understood, that it could be decades before emulators become available. If there's not enough interest, it may never happen. (VMs are one thing - I'm thinking of full DOSBox-style emulation that handles GPUs, sound cards, and everything.)

On the other hand, it's pretty certain that new machines won't be able to run pre-DX10 titles in a few years. There's going to end up being a huge catalog of games released between the DOS era and the DX10/Vista era that will only be playable by people who held onto their old gear.

Skyscraper wrote:

I am hording socket 939 Nforce4 motherboards.
I think that socket 939 will be the last retro collectible platform.

Mmm, this makes me feel lucky to own a nice 939 board (ASRock 939Dual-SATA2) 😁

maximus wrote:

On the other hand, it's pretty certain that new machines won't be able to run pre-DX10 titles in a few years. There's going to end up being a huge catalog of games released between the DOS era and the DX10/Vista era that will only be playable by people who held onto their old gear.

Scary but I honestly would have to agree with you; even some of those games today have issues with "modern" (like early Vista/7 era) machines in my experience. I think it depends heavily on how much the developer/publisher has put into compatibility though - for example Red Alert and Red Alert 2 have been re-released by EA a few times, and will run perfectly well within Windows 7/8 (and there's even 64-bit extensions available for the second one). But that isn't the case for all games from even a few years ago, some of which are already in the category of "abandonware."

One thing I have started to pay attention to, however, is Wine emulation support for DirectX 8 and DirectX 9 titles. It has improved *dramatically* in the last 3-4 years (seriously check out their supported titles list if you haven't perused it in a while) - I think the increasing popularity of Apple platforms is partly to "blame" for this (I think that's also partly why Valve has started to move towards supporting Linux/OS X more heavily). So perhaps even if Windows support for old Windows titles completely erodes, you may be happily playing Morrowind well into the future on Ubuntu or Gentoo.

As far as the original question about redundant collecting - I can see the benefit to an extent, especially if there's a specific part or part family you like and are very familiar with. However, at least for me, I think it's also a great way to waste a lot of space - I'd rather just worry about whether or not X machine is capable of delivering whatever I want out of it (e.g. "play this game" or "run this application" or "store this data"), and when the time comes, replacing it with hardware that gives me a similar set of functionality, not matching 1:1 each component. To that end I also keep all of my "important files" (read: all of those precious game discs, game saves, etc) backed up so that they aren't tied to any specific machine. The only parts I tend to keep redundantly are things that are "consumable" and also fairly standard - like fans - because they tend to break more frequently (hence "consumable") and having to drive to the store at 2 AM is no fun.

Skyscraper:

Interesting thoughts on the 939 platform. Hadn't actually thought about it like that before, but you do have a good point - I remember someone joking that Pentium 4s are the salt of the earth, and between socket 478 and 775 systems that's probably true. There are probably untold millions (if not tens or hundreds of millions) of those things out there floating around. Some places can't even give them away fast enough. But Athlon64 and Athlon64X2 on socket 939 is already relatively expensive stuff to track down (when you consider the Pentium 4 and Pentium D hardware is generally equivalent to it). My one question would be - do you think the issues with some games/software and early AMD dual-core processors will affect which parts are specifically most desirable? In other words, do you see something like the Athlon64 3500+ or 3700+ becoming more desirable to collectors/retro-builders than something like the X2 4400+?

obobskivich :

The future is not very clear but this is what I see today when it comes to K8 CPUs.
There are still plenty of K8 CPUs available. They have survived better than the motherboards.

The socket 754 s3700+ will only get more expensive. I rarly see one on Swedish "Ebay".
I just bought a socket 939 FX 55 San Diego for $30 so there are suckers out there willing to pay 😁.
http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K8/AMD-Athlon%2 … 55BNBOX%29.html

Other single core CPUs that normally sell for over $10.
All socket 939 FX CPUs.
Socket 754 3400+ 2200 MHz with 1mb cache and 3400+ 2400 MHz with 512kb cache.

All socket 939 dual cores are worh at least $10.
The FX 60 has never been cheap. They go for $100+.
I saw an Opteron 185 on Swedish "Ebay" only a few days ago. It sold for $56, I was tempted.
The Athlon 64 X2 4800+ goes for around $40 when I see it.

Socket 939 Athlon X2 with 2*512kb cache sell for $10 to $15, perhaps even $20 for the X2 4600+.
The Athlon X2 4400+ with 2*1 mb cache sell for $20 - $30.
Socket 939 Opteron Dual Cores sell for $10 - $30 depending on the clock speed except for the 185 which is more expensive.

If you want to buy a new single core CPU for your socket 939 box then Athlon 64 3700+ 2200 MHz San Diego is the CPU to buy.
They are identical to late FX55 and FX57 CPUs but with 11x as max multiplier.
They go for $0.12 - $3 on Swedish "Ebay"

All socket AM2 K8 CPUs except X2 6000+ to X2 6400+ are more or less worthless.
Socket 940 FX 51/53 CPUs are only worth something with a working motherboard.
Socket 940 Dual Core Opteron 275/285 still sell for $10/$20 to people using them for upgrading very old servers.

Very interesting - and thanks for tracking that kind of stuff; it's always useful to have that kind of information.

Guess I shouldn't be so hasty to recycle my 939 hardware either...

I started about ten years ago when I realized the local landfill was a goldmine for computers and stuff. Snuck in before dusk and left with a backpack of crummy 386's or 486 parts. There was no recycling programs yet and metals were cheap so in about four years I had just about every ISA, PCI or NuBus expansion card you would need, enough CPU's to hotrod any machine, enough ram to max out anything and enough 5.25" devices that I could be selective with builds. There were also lots and lots of cables. Three rubbermaid containers crammed full. I have just about everything.
I did have to shed components a few times due to space and new hardware coming in but I've tried really hard to not keep the hoard completely redundant. CRT's are dumped unless they have an explicit purpose and cases aren't kept unless they can be reused. Same goes with software.
It seems however that after everything got expensive and recycling programs popped up everywhere I was suddenly the only guy in the region you could get this hardware from. It takes up a hell of a lot of space but it's very rare now I need to seek places like ebay for components.

Yes, absolutely buy a spare of anything you can. Most PC equipment from the 80s and 90s has already been destroyed, and the only ones who care about it are weirdos like us. Your vintage PC will break down eventually, and if you don't already have a parts machine you'll probably be SOL.

But yes, you have to balance that with life and space requirements. If you don't have the time and space to care for your collection and be organized, there's no point to keeping it. Don't be a horder. Focus on what you can do well, do it well, and be proud of it. For me, that means significant gaming platforms. No CPM machines, no UNIX boxes, no weirdo clones, etc.

Hatta wrote:

Yes, absolutely buy a spare of anything you can. Most PC equipment from the 80s and 90s has already been destroyed, and the only ones who care about it are weirdos like us. Your vintage PC will break down eventually, and if you don't already have a parts machine you'll probably be SOL.

But yes, you have to balance that with life and space requirements. If you don't have the time and space to care for your collection and be organized, there's no point to keeping it. Don't be a horder. Focus on what you can do well, do it well, and be proud of it. For me, that means significant gaming platforms. No CPM machines, no UNIX boxes, no weirdo clones, etc.

Yes, but then there's the problem of the idiots on Youtube who make "Watch me blow up my vintage PC or video game system" videos. If one of us buys the stuff before one of those morons gets their hands on it, then it's better for us all because those parts have been saved. Letting a part sit for too long on ebay pretty much insures it will meet a nasty fate whether at the hands of a "watch me blow stuff up" Youtuber or a gold scrapper.