From what I've heard regarding modern lenovo computers is that they suck. They are extremely cheaply made and often have hardware issues not like the old IBM computers. It's too bad IBM sold out of the home computer market.

Jorpho wrote:

Alas, your link is dead. (That sounds really, really weird.) […]
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WhatANerd wrote:

2) Linux totally messed up the automatic fan controller on my Lenovo Thinkpad L512 several years ago. TWICE. Reflashing the BIOS did not solve it; I had to send it in to Lenovo for a depot warranty repair both times! If you think I'm making this up, here's my post: http://forums.lenovo.com/t5/R-and-L-Series-Th … ing/td-p/644023 I soon discovered that installing LINUX caused the problem. Wonderful, more time wasted.

Alas, your link is dead. (That sounds really, really weird.)

5) The open source nVidia video drivers are terrible and slow on all systems

To be fair, the nouveau drivers that came out relatively recently are supposed to be a lot better, but isn't that what they always say? I read once that the closed-source nVidia drivers actually work by replacing large quantities of X, so I guess things might get better when X gets replaced – though that seems like a pie in the sky.

Hmm weird, the link seems to be working over here.

Ah, nouveau! It was always so easy to replace the open source drivers with the nVidia drivers prior to nouveau. That's another issue - now you have to drag nouveau out of the system kicking and screaming like a disobedient child. At least they make PulseAudio easier to rip out these days. I'm using openSUSE 13.1 and the nouveau drivers were still slow and buggy compared to what nVidia released.

Hopefully some day "Linux" will get it together, but I think it's too unstructured and there are too many people pulling in too many different directions. What a shame.

King_Corduroy wrote:

From what I've heard regarding modern lenovo computers is that they suck. They are extremely cheaply made and often have hardware issues not like the old IBM computers. It's too bad IBM sold out of the home computer market.

You're right, for the most part. It depends on the model. Right now I have a Thinkpad W520 (I call it Big Blue's Bruiser, because it's an absolute beast and has an amazing screen with a 95% color gamut + sensor as well) and it's every bit as tough as the old IBM Thinkpads I had in the '90s. But there's like 10 different types of Thinkpads, and yes, many of them are way below par. The "green" L series was one of them, but IIRC Linux does not play well with any of their hardware. As I said, Windows works just fine. To this day I am afraid to install Linux on my W520 because I don't want to send my baby in for a depot warranty repair.

Thinkpad toughness: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7cvi00OZDM

I have a good freind who uses Gentoo on an IBM Thinkpad R52 from 2005 it works great and he uses it like mad. So I know the older thinkpads work fine with linux, its just a matter of these new ones not being particulariliy designed well.

Also that's a pretty slow pour on that laptop don't you think? 🤣
I for one when I knock something over usually don't trickle it delicately over the keyboard. 😜

🤣

Life is too short for Gentoo. 🤣

That's why Arch Linux was made. 😉

Using CrunchBang 11 Waldorf with testing Debian repos here, pretty much full-time (except when I need something Windows-specific, damn you Microsoft for making your software so appealing! 🤣). I've never stepped out of the Debian universe, as I didn't feel the need to, I feel it's quite a comprehensive distro and all it's derivatives inherit that (perhaps except Ubuntu).

King_Corduroy wrote:

I agree completely, using linux resparks my interest in computers. It's like a new frontier! Like when windows 95 and 98 was a big deal! Being a linux user in this time is very exciting. 😁

+1

WhatANerd wrote:

Ah, nouveau! It was always so easy to replace the open source drivers with the nVidia drivers prior to nouveau. That's another issue - now you have to drag nouveau out of the system kicking and screaming like a disobedient child. At least they make PulseAudio easier to rip out these days.

Well not really, I've taken out Pulseaudio of my system, and that resulted in some programs not playing any sound because somewhere along the line libraries or back-ends that are pre-built were done with PulseAudio suppor. Say like in the case of libsdl, where some applications don't have any options on which sound back-end to choose at compile-time, so for that you'd have to build your own version of libsdl, which is quite annoying considering that there's a new update to libsdl every couple of weeks, especially when using the testing repos.

I use Linux on almost everything. Workstations, home computers, laptops, servers, virtual machines, whatever. It became my main OS in 1997 or so, and since then, I have used it on hundreds of devices. Linux is awesome.

King_Corduroy wrote:

Lol I pity you for not seeing the truth in this.

What "truth"? Explain qualitatively how Windows is a "toy".

King_Corduroy wrote:

There are plenty of open source alteratives for everything you want to do, seriously at this point there is no reason to not use linux.

Say that again after being in a non-IT-company job for 10 years.

To use my job as an example... I work at an engineering company. The only piece of software we have on our standard apps list that even has a Linux version is Matlab.

All our industry-standard engineering, analysis, drafting, modelling, document management, etc apps are Windows only.

(And before Blender or K3D get mentioned, no, not that kind of modelling.)

Of course, none of this is to say that I don't like Linux, or I think it's bad, or whatever. I think it's cool, and as I mentioned earlier I use it myself. But as with anything, horses for courses.

Word processing, spreadsheets, and simple 2D drawings aren't "serious work" in the scheme of things. That's not to diminish your work or effort, by the way, it's just to give some perspective. Computers are used all the way from a college student typing up their work, through to engineering and designing multi-billion dollar infrastructure. I speak from experience when I say that there certainly is not open source alternatives for "everything". They might get there some day, but certainly not in my lifetime.

Anyone Try SteamOS yet? Its Debian Linux based I think.
Haven't tried it yet myself, but I do hope it somehow becomes wildly popular with the PC gaming segment, who will then push it off to the casuals, and there will then be an actual alternative to Windows for gaming.
A dream, that I hope happens.

The excitement over SteamOS and steamboxes also seems to have diminished. But again, perhaps I'm looking in the wrong places.

(The Ouya sure doesn't seem to be doing too well.)

SquallStrife wrote:

Word processing, spreadsheets, and simple 2D drawings aren't "serious work" in the scheme of things. That's not to diminish your work or effort, by the way, it's just to give some perspective. Computers are used all the way from a college student typing up their work, through to engineering and designing multi-billion dollar infrastructure. I speak from experience when I say that there certainly is not open source alternatives for "everything". They might get there some day, but certainly not in my lifetime.

I realize where you are coming from, I'm a mechanical engineering student. I know how to use Solidworks, Inventor, Autocad, Revit, and Pro E (Creo Parametrics 2.0). But I have found for autocad (2D drafting work) I can easily use Draftsight. Now for the others I admit there really is not anything to compare for the time being.

Yet I still think linux is improving very rapidly. More and more opensource alternatives are being made and it is only a matter of time before it becomes a major player in the desktop OS industry. Now I have no idea what distro that will be but in my eyes it is most likely a distro backed by business and their tendancy to organize and structure things. That is to say I think Redhat linux and Fedora have the greatest chance of becoming the future of linux on desktops personally (not just because I use it). I mean look at canonical, it is a business and it knows how to advertise. They are getting the attention of the computer world (mainly these days because of how evil and shoddy Ubuntu is turning out to be) because they are targeting a specific audience. The same can be said of Linux Mint but unfortunately it's OS isn't much better for bugs. 🤣

Maybe not though, others I've spoke with think everything will continue like it is with many MANY linux distros all competing but all at the same time sharing knowledge and competing to be the best. Either way I think linux has a very bright future. 😀

King_Corduroy wrote:

SquallStrife wrote:

Word processing, spreadsheets, and simple 2D drawings aren't "serious work" in the scheme of things. That's not to diminish your work or effort, by the way, it's just to give some perspective. Computers are used all the way from a college student typing up their work, through to engineering and designing multi-billion dollar infrastructure. I speak from experience when I say that there certainly is not open source alternatives for "everything". They might get there some day, but certainly not in my lifetime.

Yet I still think linux is improving very rapidly. More and more opensource alternatives are being made and it is only a matter of time before it becomes a major player in the desktop OS industry. Now I have no idea what distro that will be but in my eyes it is most likely a distro backed by business and their tendancy to organize and structure things. That is to say I think Redhat linux and Fedora have the greatest chance of becoming the future of linux on desktops personally (not just because I use it). I mean look at canonical, it is a business and it knows how to advertise. They are getting the attention of the computer world (mainly these days because of how evil and shoddy Ubuntu is turning out to be) because they are targeting a specific audience. The same can be said of Linux Mint but unfortunately it's OS isn't much better for bugs. 🤣

Maybe not though, others I've spoke with think everything will continue like it is with many MANY linux distros all competing but all at the same time sharing knowledge and competing to be the best. Either way I think linux has a very bright future. 😀

Who have you spoken with? Are they other college students? See, we've been hearing this since at least the late '90s. It's the same old story - that's why we're jaded, so you'll have to excuse us for that. This was supposed to happen when Novell took over Suse. Then again with Ubuntu. It's the same old bologna. You'll get disillusioned with the hype, too. The problem is that all the nerdy coders think they know what is best, so they all work against each other or substantially alter things/start from scratch. I don't see the cycle being broken. There's no visionary to bring it all together like Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Ray Noorda, or the IBM suits. The Linux guys wouldn't listen anyway, it's like herding cats. Like SquallStrife said, it probably won't happen in our lifetime.

Novell was HUGE and yet.....the hype didn't come to pass. Sure, they made great improvements, but nothing like what we had been hearing back then. Linux did succeed in the server market, and for that I applaud them. I remember running three segments of the Netware Network at my middle school, and the CNA computer techs just laughing at me when I installed a Linux server (this must have been 1996/1997). It's nice to have the last laugh on that. 🤣

http://www.novell.com/news/press/2003/11/nove … suse_linux.html

2003, Novell expands its open source commitment and will become the first to offer comprehensive Linux solutions for the enterprise from the desktop to the server Novell will be the only $1 billion software company with a Linux distribution and the worldwide technical staff to support it Novell/SUSE LINUX to become the world's largest supplier of desktop-to-server Linux solutions and technical support

Just to add...

Canonical had revenues of $66 million in 2013, with losses amounting to $21 million.

Novell had revenues of $1.1 billion in 2003, with losses amounting to $162 million.

Wel personally I think canonical is in for a fall anyhow since their OS sucks and their practices haven't really agreed with the community. 🤣

But yeah I see what you are saying, doesn't mean I think linux is going to putt around doing nothing, but I see that maybe no large player will emerge and the community will continue to grow collectively as they have up till now.

I'm still curious to know what makes Windows a "toy", that isn't just personal preference or rhetoric.

Linux isn't "putting around doing nothing", it's powering a majority of the world's web servers. It runs on nearly all of the world's supercomputers. The Linux kernel is underneath Android, the most widely adopted smartphone OS right now.

Linux probably will never be the biggest player on the desktop, but it doesn't need to be. It's a different beast.

Ok I didn't notice he wrote "toy" on there but you have to admit it's WAAAAY over priced and it could certainly be better optimized. All the fluff for the general populace (Windows 8 I'm looking at you) is really annoying. The majority of people you run into running windows use it as a gaming platform it seems, I think that was what he was getting at (and probably just prodding you. 🤣).

Also I realize linux is mainly used for servers all over the world what I mean is the development towards everyday users and the desktop market. Also I realize android is linux at it's core (as crappy as android is in my opinion, but then again I really don't think much of the whole tablet or smartphone thing in general) and the whole smartphone thing is going on but since I only own one shitty polaroid tablet with android on it and I have no intention of buying a mobile phone I couldn't care less. 😜

I mean don't get me wrong it's wonderful and everything it's just not my thing. I'm a desktop user, my interest is in seeing linux as a desktop OS and personally I think it does this rather neatly these days. Just my opinion though.

Corduroy, I hope it doesn't seem like we're jumping on you. I respect your opinions and am not going to fault you for having them. You have some good points too.

Anyway, thought you guys might want to see this.....I had a killer mock OS X FreeBSD desktop years ago, back when Aqua copycat themes were very few in number and required lots of manual fiddling to work:

It took a lot of tweaking to get everything working, but this was even faster than Linux on the same machine. This was seriously snappy. I <3 BSD, even if usability sucks on the desktop as much as Linux, it was infinitely more stable. Maybe because I prefer to use ports instead of packages.

Hah...look what else I found. AIM edited for lameness... 😊

Very nice desktops. The mac one is kind of impressive though although personally I never went in for all the mac style shinies.

When was the last one taken? That looks pretty early. 🤣

Here's my personal setup, just bland old MATE. Nothing fancy but it looks clean and is easy to navigate.
Not sure why the Gnome devs ever abandoned the Gnome 2 look, in my opinion it's the best desktop environment available for linux today.