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First post, by ScrewB

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I don't know if this is the rite section our not.

I am looking for a high end windows 95/3.1 pc with period accurate parts, nothing missing, windows installed with all drivers, and backup disc in case i need to reinstall. I have looked everywhere i can think to look for this and have had no success. The systems on ebay are all formatted and impossible to find drivers for, cobbled together from mismatched parts, and severely yellowed.

If anyone has such a system they would be willing to sell i would be willing to pay any reasonable price.

Reply 1 of 29, by vetz

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Period accurate parts, give a year and we can come with suggestions 😀

Since you're mentioning Windows 95 I would guess 1997 as the target year?

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Reply 2 of 29, by kixs

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High end machine for Windows 95 would likely be something Pentium non-MMX based. P-133 or 166 would be great and 32MB memory. A good S3 or Matrox vga card. These also have drivers for Win 3.1. There are still many drivers on the internet - just use google. For sound I like Creative cards.

Requests are also possible... /msg kixs

Reply 5 of 29, by oerk

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If you want a Windows 95 system, you'll have to be able to set it up yourself. It may be buy a pre-built system that has everything you want, but setting it up yourself is a skill you _need_ to have with old machines. Something _will_ go wrong in the future.

Reply 6 of 29, by ScrewB

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vetz wrote:

Period accurate parts, give a year and we can come with suggestions 😀

Since you're mentioning Windows 95 I would guess 1997 as the target year?

I was thinking something like the old HP Pavilion 7280P i had as a kid. In fact if i could get the same exact system that would be optimal...

It had a 200 MHz Pentium, 24 MB ram, 1.96GB Bigfoot HD, and ran Windows 95C.

Reply 7 of 29, by obobskivich

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You'll probably be best off building the machine of your dreams yourself - it'll be easier (and likely cheaper) to source parts, and you'll learn about its inner workings and be better able to troubleshoot it (oerk makes a very good point about this). It may also be a good idea to approach this problem from the "other side" - that is, figure out what games you actually want to play, and what they require, and then go after hardware that will best support that.

Reply 9 of 29, by obobskivich

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Unless you're dealing with very obscure hardware, finding drivers isn't such a problem. If you stick to more typical hardware, finding drivers and applications is really no different than working with more modern systems. However, it sounds like you want a more turnkey/spoonfed solution - depending on the games you want to play, DOSbox may be a much friendlier alternative (and this is partly why I suggest you identify what games you actually want to run, especially as it sounds like hardware isn't what you're after).

As far as old parts working or not working - buying a complete system is no guarantee, nor is buying hardware that is listed as working/tested. Most of the parts we're talking about here are approaching twenty years old, and a lot of this stuff was not designed with a multi-decade lifecycle in mind. Stuff breaks. IME its usually better to go piece-by-piece, as you have more granular control, and usually better knowledge of the condition the piece is coming in before-hand. A lot of complete systems online rarely have internal pictures in the listings, and a lot of shops don't like you popping computers open to "take a look" either. By contrast, individual parts usually give you a pretty good picture of what you're looking at, so you can at least screen (to some extent) for things like broken connectors, bad caps, leaking batteries, damaged traces, etc.

Last edited by obobskivich on 2015-05-26, 10:45. Edited 2 times in total.

Reply 10 of 29, by vetz

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ScrewB wrote:
vetz wrote:

Period accurate parts, give a year and we can come with suggestions 😀

Since you're mentioning Windows 95 I would guess 1997 as the target year?

I was thinking something like the old HP Pavilion 7280P i had as a kid. In fact if i could get the same exact system that would be optimal...

It had a 200 MHz Pentium, 24 MB ram, 1.96GB Bigfoot HD, and ran Windows 95C.

You're looking for a highend 1996 system then. Here are my suggestions:

  • Intel Pentium 200mhz (not mmx as it was introduced in jan 1997)
  • Socket 7 Intel 430HX based motherboard (ASUS XP55P2T4 is an ATX board from 1996 that would fit excellent for this build as it avoids having to use an AT case!)
  • 64MB EDO RAM
  • Matrox Millennium/Mystique or highend S3 Virge as 2D card
  • Orchid or Diamond Voodoo Graphics card (those two were the released cards in late 1996)
  • Creative Soundblaster AWE64 Gold (must own in 1996) with Roland SC55mkII external MIDI device.
  • 68pin or 50pin SCSI harddrive (it's allowed to cheat on the storage solution in my opinion incase you want to go with newer drives) with PCI Adaptec controller.
  • CD-ROM (24x I think were available)

When I read that list I cry a bit inside knowing how outdated it would be by 1998 when Unreal and Half-Life came along.... 🤣 The industry moved quickly back then.

Last edited by vetz on 2015-05-26, 10:53. Edited 1 time in total.

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Reply 11 of 29, by chinny22

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If you want an OEM system like HP, Compaq, IBM, etc it doesn't really change anything as they are all based on standard hardware, but you will have to treat it as a homebuilt PC. most manufacturers wont have a central driver page.
Quick google found that the Pavilion 7280P uses a S3 Virge for Video, That driver is easy to get. More digging round you could find what video, etc, etc is used, but you will have to dig around.
In someways building a PC from scratch is more easy as you know what the sound card, video card, etc is cause you pit it in. BUT again there will be no central location to download everything.

Reply 13 of 29, by Jorpho

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Always, the most important question is: what, exactly, do you want to do? If you approach this with the intent of finding something that will do "Everything!" then you will spend far more time mucking with hardware than you ever will playing retro games.

Pick something you particularly want to play, and then find hardware that will play it. (Windows 95 might not even be the best solution.)

ScrewB wrote:

cobbled together from mismatched parts

Many people have systems "cobbled together from mismatched parts" and are entirely happy with them.

and severely yellowed.

ATX cases haven't changed much. You can stick the parts in pretty much any case you can find anywhere and everything will work fine. If you want to de-yellow a case, peroxide-based treatments are popular lately.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retr0bright

ScrewB wrote:

I already know how to build a PC just finding old working parts and there drivers is a whore.

Do you have a particular component that you have not been able to find drivers for?

Reply 14 of 29, by ScrewB

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Jorpho wrote:

Always, the most important question is: what, exactly, do you want to do? If you approach this with the intent of finding something that will do "Everything!" then you will spend far more time mucking with hardware than you ever will playing retro games.

Shitposting, Gaming, and Nostalgia.

Pick something you particularly want to play, and then find hardware that will play it. (Windows 95 might not even be the best solution.)

If my goal was only to play i would just use dosbox our a VM.

Many people have systems "cobbled together from mismatched parts" and are entirely happy with them.

But that isn't what i am looking for. I am looking for a bit of a display piece. If i only wanted something that would work i could have cobbled together a pentium 2 shitbox.

ATX cases haven't changed much. You can stick the parts in pretty much any case you can find anywhere and everything will work fine. If you want to de-yellow a case, peroxide-based treatments are popular lately.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retr0bright

I will look into that.

ScrewB wrote:

Do you have a particular component that you have not been able to find drivers for?

Motherboards and Ethernet cards mostly.

Reply 15 of 29, by ScrewB

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bjt wrote:

I'm thinking about selling this machine, it might fit what you're looking for.
Where are you located?

Crusty Desktop AT Pentium

Looks interesting. I am in the US.

How much you want for it?

Reply 16 of 29, by Jorpho

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ScrewB wrote:

If my goal was only to play i would just use dosbox our a VM.

Well, you know, you did write "for retro gaming" in your subject line.

But that isn't what i am looking for. I am looking for a bit of a display piece. If i only wanted something that would work i could have cobbled together a pentium 2 shitbox.

Okay, so you want a nice case. In that case I would think that it wouldn't matter if the system was "all formatted and impossible to find drivers for".

Motherboards and Ethernet cards mostly.

Any Ethernet card you can't easily find drivers for right now was probably never a very good Ethernet card, and a good Ethernet card isn't at all hard to find. (A "period correct" system intended for use with Windows 95C probably would have come with a modem instead of an Ethernet card anyway.)

And motherboards didn't generally require drivers back then. I suppose some of them might have come with onboard sound, but back then you were probably much, much better off disabling it and getting a proper Sound Blaster card.

Reply 17 of 29, by luckybob

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The problem with "high-end" is there is no limit to how high it goes.

Case in point, my windows 98 machine: A long time coming, yet another V2 setup I built the machine to play glide enabled games from 98-2000. It worked wonderful for like 3 weeks before I went to another project. its a glorious machine and I loved to build it. Sad part is, I decided to use the case for another build, but I do still have all the actual hardware in a box. Basically you can buy your own case anywhere and go nuts. Part of me wants to sell it, but I know I want WAY too much for it. Overall, I've spent about $400 on the parts and about 3 years of time watching ebay. So, words of advice. Research what you want to do, see what others have built here, then do your own thing.

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems just with potatoes.

Reply 18 of 29, by oerk

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ScrewB wrote:

Motherboards and Ethernet cards mostly.

Like Jorpho said, motherboards didn't need drivers back then, except for onboard devices that are better left turned off anyway.

Ethernet cards that work with every conceivable operating system are a dime a dozen. Almost any 10/100 3Com, Intel, or Realtek card will do, just look at the driver availability before buying one.

Reply 19 of 29, by obobskivich

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Agreed with Jorpho and oerk. The only drivers I've ever seen an old motherboard really "need" are for AGP or some onboard device. Old AGP may or may not work very well; depends on the chipset and the board. Most other onboard devices, barring a quality ATA controller or something, should be turned off as previously stated. If you go with a fairly well known motherboard you shouldn't have problems finding whatever it needs, and it shouldn't be too hard to find someone else who has owned (or maybe currently owns) one to help you with information.

On the NIC - agreed on 3Com or Intel (I haven't spent much time with Realtek devices in general, oddly enough). I've got some older Etherlink PCI cards that work out of the box with most versions of Windows, and other operating systems, and provide good performance to boot. I know there are ISA variants of some of those cards as well (some even have thin-net connectors).