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Anyone use an old linux OS on an old PC?

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Reply 20 of 62, by Caluser2000

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oerk wrote:
dr.zeissler wrote:
Linux is shit, old or new version. There are always problems issues with drivers (video, audio) a and the 3Dsupport is SHIT. why […]
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Linux is shit, old or new version. There are always problems issues with drivers (video, audio) a
and the 3Dsupport is SHIT. why do I need to compile a new kernel in order to get 3Dsupport,
come on that's stupid. You have to move mountains to get 3D and then it's SLOW.

Linux = Shit

Well that's not a broad generalization at all, is it? 😵 And it has nothing to do with the initial question.

I quite happily use Linux as a desktop operating system, BTW, and am starting to prefer it over Windows.

Same here. My wife uses it as well for for her hobbies. This system has been very reliable. Obviously it's not to everyone's taste. If we all had the same set ups it would be quite a boring place. 🙄

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 21 of 62, by Caluser2000

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Malvineous wrote:
ynari wrote:

286s and below do not feature the protected flat memory model required by any modern Unix.

Then the fun part is getting Linux running on one of these machines with ELKS!

Personnally would prefer to use Dos on my 286. It networks etc just fine. The software library is quite vast as well. Hardware support is also good. Of course that contradicts my previous post but hell what do I know....

I hope the OP gives us an update on progress. Good or bad. It'd be nice if this thread didn't turn into one of those stupid OS flame wars as well.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 22 of 62, by Malvineous

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dr.zeissler wrote:

Linux is shit, old or new version. There are always problems issues with drivers (video, audio) a
and the 3Dsupport is SHIT. why do I need to compile a new kernel in order to get 3Dsupport,
come on that's stupid. You have to move mountains to get 3D and then it's SLOW.

You haven't had to do that for the last 10 years now. Modern Linux systems detect pretty much all hardware automatically, even devices which no longer work in recent Windows versions. Granted it sounds like you don't want to try Linux on principle, but for the rest of us, it's moved on and we couldn't go back to anything else.

I agree though DOS would be a better match for an old PC, but then getting TCP/IP working to transfer files can often be a pain, so I wouldn't mind being able to boot Linux so I can use that to maintain the DOS partition! That and having something that properly uses the 286's protected mode would be nice as well. I've read mixed reports about "no mainstream software uses 286 protected mode" and then that Windows 3 can apparently use it, so I'm not sure what the case is.

Reply 23 of 62, by Unknown_K

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If you do run an old version of Unix on an old PC what apps are you going to run with it? The only unix variants I currently run is A/UX 3 on a Apple network server (Quadra 950) and it pretty much collects dust and Sun OS for sparc.

Collector of old computers, hardware, and software

Reply 24 of 62, by Caluser2000

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Malvineous wrote:

[I agree though DOS would be a better match for an old PC, but then getting TCP/IP working to transfer files can often be a pain, so I wouldn't mind being able to boot Linux so I can use that to maintain the DOS partition! That and having something that properly uses the 286's protected mode would be nice as well. I've read mixed reports about "no mainstream software uses 286 protected mode" and then that Windows 3 can apparently use it, so I'm not sure what the case is.

Using the mTCP suite of programs is quite easy to set up and my 286/12 is capable of having 8megs of ran and runs Windows 3.1 in with nic packet driver, winpkt shim and trumpet winsock quite well so if I want transfer files via ftp windowed quite easily in that as well I can while using an IRC client. Try doing that in ELKS.

On the Linux front I'm using RH 7.3 on the P200mmx to make this post in Mozilla. As I mentioned earlier Vogons is one of the easiest forums to access using older graphical browsers that I've come across.. VCForums can be a pain due to all the crap that gets loaded. Also use this system to IRC.Play some mindless games such as xbill and generally just fart around. Being my first real system to get Linux how I wanted it at the time has a special place in my small selection of systems. Maxed out the ram and on board video from some cast off systems smoothed things out a bit. This whole system was in bits scattered around a wharehouse when I came across it.

Screeny of the desktop:

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Hopefully it'll encourage the OP a bit. IIRC Slackware 4 used KDE 1.x as it's default DE.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 25 of 62, by mr_bigmouth_502

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Malvineous wrote:
dr.zeissler wrote:

Linux is shit, old or new version. There are always problems issues with drivers (video, audio) a
and the 3Dsupport is SHIT. why do I need to compile a new kernel in order to get 3Dsupport,
come on that's stupid. You have to move mountains to get 3D and then it's SLOW.

You haven't had to do that for the last 10 years now. Modern Linux systems detect pretty much all hardware automatically, even devices which no longer work in recent Windows versions. Granted it sounds like you don't want to try Linux on principle, but for the rest of us, it's moved on and we couldn't go back to anything else.

I agree though DOS would be a better match for an old PC, but then getting TCP/IP working to transfer files can often be a pain, so I wouldn't mind being able to boot Linux so I can use that to maintain the DOS partition! That and having something that properly uses the 286's protected mode would be nice as well. I've read mixed reports about "no mainstream software uses 286 protected mode" and then that Windows 3 can apparently use it, so I'm not sure what the case is.

Ever tried to get Linux 3D support working on an older laptop? You really don't want to.

Reply 26 of 62, by ahendricks18

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Well, I tried installing Slack on my P133. It did not work out too well, it's kind of a pain in the ass to configure. Guess I'm going back to Windows!

Main: AMD FX 6300 six core 3.5ghz (OC 4ghz)
16gb DDR3, Nvidia Geforce GT740 4gb Gfx card, running Win7 Ultimate x64
Linux: AMD Athlon 64 4000+, 1.5GB DDR, Nvidia Quadro FX1700 running Debian Jessie 8.4.0

Reply 27 of 62, by calvin

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Slackware is very unforgiving.

Personally, I don't find old Linux interesting. Old Unix is pretty interesting, but extremely finicky. Try other OSes, IMHO. BeOS is better on P2, but it runs fine on a good Pentium Classic.

2xP2 450, 512 MB SDR, GeForce DDR, Asus P2B-D, Windows 2000
P3 866, 512 MB RDRAM, Radeon X1650, Dell Dimension XPS B866, Windows 7
M2 @ 250 MHz, 64 MB SDE, SiS5598, Compaq Presario 2286, Windows 98

Reply 28 of 62, by mbbrutman

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Malvineous wrote:
dr.zeissler wrote:

I agree though DOS would be a better match for an old PC, but then getting TCP/IP working to transfer files can often be a pain, so I wouldn't mind being able to boot Linux so I can use that to maintain the DOS partition! That and having something that properly uses the 286's protected mode would be nice as well. I've read mixed reports about "no mainstream software uses 286 protected mode" and then that Windows 3 can apparently use it, so I'm not sure what the case is.

I am going to echo what Caluser2000 wrote - getting TCP/IP setup on DOS does not have to be hard. You load the packet driver (a device driver in the form of a DOS TSR), you do some minor configuration, and you are running. The complicated parts are the parts that stink on all old ISA bus machines; making sure that you have the correct IRQ and I/O ports selected so that you don't conflict with other cards.

If you want a fairly thorough introduction to TCP/IP with DOS packet drivers, take a look at http://www.brutman.com/Dos_Networking/dos_networking.html . (Disclaimer: Yes, it is my page.) And the setup instructions for mTCP are pretty easy to follow too.

Reply 29 of 62, by Caluser2000

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calvin wrote:

Slackware is very unforgiving.

Personally, I don't find old Linux interesting. Old Unix is pretty interesting, but extremely finicky. Try other OSes, IMHO. BeOS is better on P2, but it runs fine on a good Pentium Classic.

OS/2 and NT are options as well. That's nice thing about Pentiums, there's plenty of OSs to play with. As usual with ANY OS make sure ALL your hardware is supported.

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There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 30 of 62, by ragnar-gd

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On the German site golem.de, there has just been a review of minimal Linux distros tailor-made for such hardware.

In German, sorry for that:

http://www.golem.de/news/alles-andere-als-sch … 510-116627.html

But here are the distros they tested and recommended, i copied the links to the corresponding home-page from the article for your convenience:

4MLinux
http://4mlinux.com/index.php?page=home

AntiX-Linux
http://antix.mepis.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

SalentOS
http://salentos.it/

Slitaz-Linux
http://www.slitaz.org/en/

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Ragnar G.D.

My posts on the subject of W98SE legacy are dedicated to Rudolph Loew, (+11/ 2019, *1952), as without his work my builds would not be possible.

Reply 31 of 62, by ynari

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I'd recommend using Salix over Slackware. It's modern and has dependency checking built in.

I'm quite happy to fiddle with NetBSD, for instance, but Slackware as-is is a step too far even for me.

Reply 32 of 62, by Caluser2000

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ragnar-gd wrote:
On the German site golem.de, there has just been a review of minimal Linux distros tailor-made for such hardware. […]
Show full quote

On the German site golem.de, there has just been a review of minimal Linux distros tailor-made for such hardware.

In German, sorry for that:

http://www.golem.de/news/alles-andere-als-sch … 510-116627.html

But here are the distros they tested and recommended, i copied the links to the corresponding home-page from the article for your convenience:

4MLinux
http://4mlinux.com/index.php?page=home

AntiX-Linux
http://antix.mepis.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

SalentOS
http://salentos.it/

Slitaz-Linux
http://www.slitaz.org/en/

Hope this helps.

Cheers, Ragnar G.D.

4MLinux is unable to install on my 200mmx so I dought it'll run on a classic P1 133. Moans about the cpu not having pae cmov on v13 trying to do a hdd installation. Is there a non pae version? Salix doesn't ship with a non pae kernal option now either. Slitaz is ok. Looks like the latest antiX requires at least a PII. I I'll try the non-pae 14.4. version of antiX which reqires a 3.5gig of hdd space and 192megs of ram.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 33 of 62, by pewpewpew

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Caluser2000 wrote:

Looks like the latest antiX requires at least a PII.

Checking my notes, antiX 15 took about 8 minutes to boot my P3 450 384MB MX440SE. "the system advice on antix's webpage is either badly out of date or absurdly generous." Lubuntu 14.04.4 took 5 minutes to boot, and was "slow but relaxed" compared to antiX "slow and troubled". What was all the more interesting is Lubuntu gives a modern mainstrean full-service GUI experience, rather than a soup of cut-down apps that lightweights, including antiX, tend to serve.

For possible interest, the hardinfo benchmarks under Lubuntu,
CPU Blowfish
84.428
CPU CryptoHash
13.468
CPU Fibonacci
25.224
CPU N-Queens
58.044
FPU FFT
85.573
FPU Raytracing
127.509

The OP asked about running old Linux on his Pentium 133. FWIW I've installed my 1999 Corel 1 to my 200MMX without issue, so you might try that for easy amusement.
https://old-linux.com/

Reply 34 of 62, by Caluser2000

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pewpewpew wrote:

The OP asked about running old Linux on his Pentium 133. FWIW I've installed my 1999 Corel 1 to my 200MMX without issue, so you might try that for easy amusement.
https://old-linux.com/

Yeah that's what this thread is all about old Linux on old systems 😉 Some of the commercial offerings were better in some respects, especially when it came to supported video cards.

antiX didn't go too well Grub didn't replace the SuSe 7.2 boot loader. Took forever to "install" as well. Pulled out my Xandros 2.0 just for shits n jiggles and will see how that goes. Although it states PII-4 on the box it'll install fine on P1 class systems.

Edit-The Xandros 2 install went rather well. Of course I had to fiddle.Put on Opera 10, which I'm using to post this paragraph, along with Window Maker and XFCE4. XFCE4 ran better than I expected. Screen drawing can be a bit odd but it recovers ok. Patience is the key. Window maker is snappier and obviously there are lighter window managers. The usb stick is mounted in a directory called /disk/removable. I also replaced the Xandrox Networks application with Synaptic. Removed all the dead repository links in the process and added a few Sarge repositories. An annoying thing is the default kernal doesn't have any type of power management support and gives you a horrible on screen prompt that it's ok to turn your system off. I put gdm on it as the default kdm login was rather sparse with just user name and password with no option to select a different DE or WM. Nothing startling but it works on this 200mmx box.

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Last edited by Caluser2000 on 2015-11-01, 01:44. Edited 9 times in total.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 35 of 62, by xjas

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I've used AntiX (15? the latest beta as of a few months ago) on a dual-P3/1000 and it was totally fine, but I don't know how much slower I'd want to go than that. 1.25 GB of RAM helps. I also prefer "bare" Fluxbox (or IceWM) over Rox-Fluxbox / Rox-IceWM. Rox itself seems to be fairly sluggish.

I like Damn Small Linux a lot too but it's not exactly kept bleeding edge up to date. I've run it on a P1-MMX acceptably. DSL has a few different sized distros available all the way down to a ~50 MB super barebones system. I usually use the full live-CD size though.

twitch.tv/oldskooljay - playing the obscure, forgotten & weird - most Tuesdays & Thursdays @ 6:30 PM PDT. Bonus streams elsewhen!

Reply 36 of 62, by shamino

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Back when it was current, I tried RedHat 6.whatever on a K6-3. I couldn't really do anything with it, and the GUI had an annoying habit of not even running programs. It would show the "loading" animation for the mouse and then nothing would actually happen. All these years later, I've even seen that on a modern Mint install sometimes.

I used Redhat 7.2 and later 7.3 on a Pentium Pro machine, but I was just using it as a basic web server, not a desktop PC. I liked it for that role. This is when I learned ipchains, which is unfortunate because they didn't stick with it. I got confused trying to learn iptables and for years, I would revert back to ipchains instead because it did what I needed it to do. Only recently did I finally start to get comfortable with iptables.
That machine was unable to handle later releases based on the 2.6 kernel. It ran but RAM usage was too high.

The only old linux I used very much as a desktop PC was Fedora Core 2 running on a P2 Xeon. I think that used Gnome 2. Back in those days, nVidia driver support was a somewhat manual process which required downloading something from nVidia, then running some sort of semi-compile process. I don't think it was a full compilation of anything, I'm not sure what it was doing. They also had a serious breakage with the nVidia driver when the linux kernel changed the size of some stack or whatever it was. In the end it was fixed and that machine worked out. Too bad Fedora had such a short support life, and I wasn't in the mood to upgrade it after that. However, I'm not the type to abandon an OS just because it's "unsupported", so I don't remember what the real reason was that I stopped using it. Maybe something else broke.

Other than that flirtation with Fedora 2, I generally did not like using Linux as a desktop GUI environment. I've never liked any of it's GUIs as well as Win2k/unthemed XP.
Recently, I've become at least somewhat comfortable with XFCE on Mint. XFCE is a lightweight GUI but I don't know if it's feasible for a Pentium.

I've had loads of frustration about user friendly configurability of linux distros. The best solution for that I've seen was in the 'yast' utility on SuSE. It has a text version so it was probably there even on much older releases.

I've had a pretty negative impression of linux support for even remotely anachronistic video hardware. It's not nearly as forgiving with this as the Windows world. Older video cards on newer linux get broken and never fixed. I doubt newer video cards on old linux will ever work either. I'm sure they have excuses for why this happens, maybe even good excuses, but it's a problem nonetheless.
Old linux with an old PC is probably a good idea from a hardware support point of view, besides it probably performs much better that way as well.

Reply 37 of 62, by Bullmecha

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I loaded Ubuntu 12.04 on my dual Pro200 system. Runs fine except for max loading the CPU's 🤣.

Just a guy with a bad tinkering habit.
i5 6600k Main Rig
too many to list old school rigs

Reply 38 of 62, by Caluser2000

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Couple more tries on this 200mmx. Lubutu 12.04 nope, 10 kernal actually loaded on that one, but stalled during installation. Gave antiX another shot, installed using frugal but not intelligent enough to take over the Xandros 2.5 boot loader. It is freaking slow as well as mentioned above. I know Fadora Core 3 will run but it's usb support is borked out of the box, this is quite well known.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 39 of 62, by pewpewpew

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Caluser2000, if you're having install-fever don't forget the Knoppix releases. I've kept 3.1 and 3.3 in my utility pack because they run well on PI and have USB with familar commands.

notes scrawled on my disks:
Needs >83MB RAM
Rightclick dev to change read/write
root:
# sudo su
# passwd

Less-traveled distros that memory is saying I used on PI are Dynabolic and Demundi. First was a hippie-distro; all free, all privacy, any old machine. Second was a music suite.

EDIT: my memory was just a pretty lie. I've got DeMuDi 1.2.1 Live trying to boot on the 200MMX and it's a slooow struggle. Which isn't unreasonable for a 2004/2005 distro on a 1995 VirgeDX.

dyne:bolic 0.5.1 booted lickity-split, but wouldn't recognize my mice. dyne:bolic 2.5 had good hardware detection but was too slow to use.