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Reply 520 of 564, by Jed118

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konc wrote on 2021-04-16, 19:30:

But I don't bite on the individual's responsibility and that this is happening to protect the environment. They should have started restricting other things polluting thousand times more than a V8 to make me reconsider my car because of the environment.

This. I would consider an electric car because of fuel cost and insurance savings. Most people I know think this way too. We're not environment haters, but budget is taken into consideration first. As it stands, over the last year, we've put something like 5,000 KM on all our cars. The main family car is on its 5th or 6th tank fill up since we bought it in late September of last year. Working from home is a direct contributor to that, and it looks like that's going to be a thing for quite some time. Even if that changes, my 800cc Matiz gets 5.5L/100 km and most of our driving is done within our city to get food. There's no need to use the larger sedan for that kind of thing. In essence, my carbon footprint has plummeted due to working from home. Why the hell would I seriously consider an electric car under these conditions? Many in my industry are in the same position.

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Reply 521 of 564, by sf78

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Jed118 wrote on 2021-04-16, 19:48:

Why the hell would I seriously consider an electric car under these conditions? Many in my industry are in the same position.

I don't think the environment is the main thing with electrics. It's the immediate throttle response and very low maintenance costs compared to combustion engine. The technology is also very simple (not many moving parts) so it will most likely last longer if engineered properly. Optional extras also give you neat functions to control your car with a phone app that hasn't been available in normal cars.

When it comes to V8 and government forcing people to switch, I think it's more about the fuel being too cheap in the US to force anyone to switch to a more efficient engines. I like large cars as much as anyone, but I also realize it's silly to burn up your cash filling up if you can get the same amount of power (and more) for a lot less.

Reply 522 of 564, by konc

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sf78 wrote on 2021-04-17, 07:36:

...but I also realize it's silly to burn up your cash filling up if you can get the same amount of power (and more) for a lot less.

Electric cars are not yet suitable for car enthusiasts. Yes they can be (very) fast, but power is not everything. Some still prefer lighter, agile, manual, heel-and-toe capable, loud, cars with character and involving for pure enjoyment even if they are slower. But this is an edge case of course. I do realize that electric cars are the future and that even such people would be ok driving a mini electric car with small running costs for their daily commute, as long as they can still take for a ride their project car on the weekend.

Reply 524 of 564, by Jed118

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sf78 wrote on 2021-04-17, 07:36:

I don't think the environment is the main thing with electrics. It's the immediate throttle response and very low maintenance costs compared to combustion engine. The technology is also very simple (not many moving parts) so it will most likely last longer if engineered properly. Optional extras also give you neat functions to control your car with a phone app that hasn't been available in normal cars.

Having all the torques in the world immediately is not something I would consider safe - there's going to have to be sensors and logic to control wheelspin, especially where I live in the winter. We're trading moving parts complexity for soft-switches, logic, and more processors. As we all know today, computers are infallible and silicon lasts forever! 😜 But seriously, wiring corrodes. If an ABS sensor goes on my ICE car, yeah OK not the greatest, but if some sensor is not getting a pulse to the wheel control module on an electric car, the car will likely just shut down, period. I'm not advocating driving a car in a deteriorated state, but in an emergency, the choice should be there. I had to drive my car off country roads in a snowstorm after I hit a 2x4 (or something) and it pinched and crushed my brake lines. I knew what happened, but there's NO WAY a tow would get out to where I was if the car shut down due to the problem. I had full control of the engine, and the front brakes ( 50/50 split front rear dual master cylinder on a RWD car, not the typical X circuit on FWD cars) and the knowledge of how the car performs in this state, and slowly and carefully, got out to a main road. After checking the brake fluid reservoir, the front half of the circuit was still full, so I decided to drive it home like this, where I replaced a $15 section of the brake line. I somehow doubt (and don't want to find out on the back of my own skin) that a sensor-studded EV would allow me to limp home, and if so, in a crippled state that might inhibit full control of the car, it itself making the software choice to limit the hardware for "safety". What am I gonna do on the side of the road? Bust out my Pii and hack it? The point here is that modern cars, more and more, relinquish control to presets and silicon - you are no longer an operator, but a passenger with suggestions, which don't have to be followed.

Furthermore, those "optional extras" that allow me to control my car with my phone is something pointless, and borders on safety concerns. If I can control it with my phone, tell me, assure me, it is 100% safe and that no one can ever control it with their phone?

No, the only control of my car I want is with my hands and feet, and then, as directly to the car as possible. Either that, or no control at all and the car drives me around, and this is mandated for all on a redundant network and everything is monitored, insurance is standardized, vehicle power is classified, and otherwise stratified in such a way as to ensure uniformity (and blandness - sounds.... very Marxist:P) . Remove all autonomy and replace it with a input-less mode of transport. This kills privacy, and puts our lives even more in the hands of gov't and corporations. With the way my gov't is handling the COVID situation, (and previous IT endeavours - google Phoenix Pay 🤣, not to mention SNC Lavalin) they have a long way to go before they get my trust. I'll be dead before they get it, and until then, I'll keep cars I can control, service, and maintain myself, be it ICE or electric (eventually, when I have to)

(proceeds to die in a car accident 😜 )

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Reply 525 of 564, by sf78

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Jed118 wrote on 2021-04-20, 14:12:

Having all the torques in the world immediately is not something I would consider safe - there's going to have to be sensors and logic to control wheelspin, especially where I live in the winter.

I had an E-class diesel wagon which had enough torque to move it quite briskly and lots of different computers controlling wheel spin, traction etc. and it was a 14 year old car.

We're trading moving parts complexity for soft-switches, logic, and more processors. As we all know today, computers are infallible and silicon lasts forever! 😜 But seriously, wiring corrodes.

They sure do, but it has nothing to do with EV or ICE technology. Age and time are the main culprits. Computers have been in cars for decades already.

If an ABS sensor goes on my ICE car, yeah OK not the greatest, but if some sensor is not getting a pulse to the wheel control module on an electric car, the car will likely just shut down, period. I'm not advocating driving a car in a deteriorated state, but in an emergency, the choice should be there.

Again, not a power train issue. Different cars take different action depending on the fault. A Merc or a BMW might stop all together when the on-board computer realizes the brakes are gone. In other circumstances, a faulty sensor and the car goes in to a limp mode and you are limited to a low speed.

Furthermore, those "optional extras" that allow me to control my car with my phone is something pointless, and borders on safety concerns. If I can control it with my phone, tell me, assure me, it is 100% safe and that no one can ever control it with their phone?

I was mainly referring to different ways you can control the car when it's stationary. Like the new S class that let's you close the doors remotely with your phone (and check if they were left open). Preheat/cool the car, check the available range or the charging time before full etc. All very convenient info on a device you have with you all the time anyway. Like I said, some of these are available to ICE models too, but most are aimed at EV's because you can use the large battery for all these functions instead of the rapidly depleting 12V or burn fuel to operate a heater.

Not trying to start a war between EV and ICE, just saying that one technology has come to an end and a new one is taking it's place and once the battery and charging issues have been ironed out I'm sure most users don't have any trouble migrating to EV's. And enthusiast can still take their Sunday drives in a Camaro if they like.

Reply 526 of 564, by Jed118

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Those are good points, however you keep bringing up high end cars such as BMW and Mercedes. Those cars do not interest me, I have no need of such opulence 😜 You'll find that many people do not care about stuff like that. Even if I won the lottery, I likely wouldn't splurge on something like that. Also, those cars fall into the "if you can't afford the maintenance, you can't afford the car" category: I neither have the desire, time, or funds to keep one of those cash pits going. I'm a simple commoner that requires basic transport and no frills. I'm not advocating for a return to carburetion and points ignition, but I have a friend who is so devoted to keeping old Mercs up that he somewhat traded his life for it - parts cars, expensive repairs, constantly keeping it going. I've known a few guys over the years like that, and if they didn't give up their hobby, it consumed them. Ironocally ALL of them were German car owners (quite a few started and "ended" on the MKII Jetta 🤣). I feel that to keep up with the pace of change and the ability to tune up your own car, you'll require a BA in computer science. There's also a flourishing DIY and maker scene, combined with channels on YouTube devoted to this stuff. There's also anti-repair legislation by the gov't. Nice conflicts there.

Either way, I understand change is coming, I've been expecting it for 20 years now. I was looking at a way to convert a Pony into a rudimentary EV, now Hyundai themselves have done it mass-market. I'll wait until I need a new car, the price goes down for EVs, and the requirements for one are ripe. For now it seems to me that they're throwing gadgets and useless crap at EVs (and you're right, cars in general) in order to appeal to "nerds", and that's putting me off.

We'll see in 10 years 😉

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Reply 527 of 564, by DaveJustDave

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recently picked this up. I don't think i've ever owned anything that revved to 9k RPM. A lot of little things to work on, but I do like a project.

BfyiHedh.jpg

I have no clue what I'm doing! If you want to watch me fumble through all my retro projects, you can watch here: https://www.youtube.com/user/MrDavejustdave

Reply 528 of 564, by bjwil1991

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Rolls-Royce Phantom II. 4.3 litre, 30 horsepower, six cylinder engine, with Stromberg downdraft carburettor, can go from zero to 100 kilometres an hour in 12.5 seconds. And I even like the color.

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Jk

We got a used 2019 Chevrolet Equinox 1.5L Turbocharged 4 cylinder engine for my mom since the 2007 Chevrolet Uplander lost its radiator support (died at 160,300).

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Reply 529 of 564, by konc

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DaveJustDave wrote on 2021-04-22, 05:02:

recently picked this up. I don't think i've ever owned anything that revved to 9k RPM. A lot of little things to work on, but I do like a project.

The sound up there is haunting! That's another special car for few, and they become rarer and rarer. Enjoy it!
(and if it's not the facelift be careful until you get used to the the kick, this thing can loose the rear even on high gears unexpectedly)
I was looking for one also, but they had already become too expensive at that point and couldn't find one in good condition.

Reply 530 of 564, by DaveJustDave

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it's a pre-facelift AP1. the post facelift AP2 models didn't redline quite so high.

the AP1 was prone to snap oversteer at the limit. I plan on revamping the whole suspension to dial out this behavior. Still though, it has less than half the power of my other car, and doesn't feel like it's always trying to kill me 😀

I can't believe it's almost as old as the Pentium 4!

lXuUhukh.jpg

konc wrote on 2021-04-22, 06:20:
The sound up there is haunting! That's another special car for few, and they become rarer and rarer. Enjoy it! (and if it's not […]
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DaveJustDave wrote on 2021-04-22, 05:02:

recently picked this up. I don't think i've ever owned anything that revved to 9k RPM. A lot of little things to work on, but I do like a project.

The sound up there is haunting! That's another special car for few, and they become rarer and rarer. Enjoy it!
(and if it's not the facelift be careful until you get used to the the kick, this thing can loose the rear even on high gears unexpectedly)
I was looking for one also, but they had already become too expensive at that point and couldn't find one in good condition.

I have no clue what I'm doing! If you want to watch me fumble through all my retro projects, you can watch here: https://www.youtube.com/user/MrDavejustdave

Reply 531 of 564, by Intel486dx33

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Elon Musk said the Germans are the leaders in Green energy but they lack electric Vehicles. Germany said they are going GREEN and are going to flood the American market with Green German products including cars and trucks.

Reply 532 of 564, by Jed118

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DaveJustDave wrote on 2021-04-22, 05:02:
recently picked this up. I don't think i've ever owned anything that revved to 9k RPM. A lot of little things to work on, but […]
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recently picked this up. I don't think i've ever owned anything that revved to 9k RPM. A lot of little things to work on, but I do like a project.

BfyiHedh.jpg

S2000?

*edit And nevermind, I scrolled down. A friend of mine has had both the first gen with the smaller engine which revs higher, and currently the facelifted one with the slightly larger engine (what are they, 2.2 and 2.3? Something like that?) This guy shifts at 7K RPM all day. He's older, so it's funny to hear him drive: He'll take first to 6-7k, smoothly accelerating, then take a year to shift from 1st to 2nd, then take 2nd to the speed limit (usually 50 or 60 KMh) and stay in 2nd. He loves his S. 😉

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What's for sale? my eBay!

Reply 533 of 564, by Jed118

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2021-04-22, 19:12:

Elon Musk said the Germans are the leaders in Green energy but they lack electric Vehicles. Germany said they are going GREEN and are going to flood the American market with Green German products including cars and trucks.

The Germans lost the war, and we're going to get flooded by VAG products. Just great 😜 I'm not a proponent of BUY DOMESTIC, but I would be if they made decent small cars...

Last edited by Stiletto on 2021-04-26, 04:06. Edited 1 time in total.

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What's for sale? my eBay!

Reply 534 of 564, by gerry

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about electric vehicles and the possible longevity advantages I read that Nissan warrants that its electric car batteries will last eight years or 100,000 miles

that's pretty good, but also I know of many cars where the engine is good for 200k+, however the cost is all about whether replacing the battery after 8 years (at an estimate cost of say $4000) is still a saving on 8 years of gas engine servicing v electric motor servicing, plus the possibility that battery tech will improve in the next years so the placement will be better

it may be a moot point in 10-20 years anyway as the majority give up on owning cars (see various cars as a service predictions) and we just use them as self drive taxis; "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace"

Reply 535 of 564, by digger

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gerry wrote on 2021-04-23, 09:13:

about electric vehicles and the possible longevity advantages I read that Nissan warrants that its electric car batteries will last eight years or 100,000 miles

that's pretty good, but also I know of many cars where the engine is good for 200k+, however the cost is all about whether replacing the battery after 8 years (at an estimate cost of say $4000) is still a saving on 8 years of gas engine servicing v electric motor servicing, plus the possibility that battery tech will improve in the next years so the placement will be better

it may be a moot point in 10-20 years anyway as the majority give up on owning cars (see various cars as a service predictions) and we just use them as self drive taxis; "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace"

Since both the Nissan Leaf and the Tesla Model S have already been around for a decade at this point, we can now evaluate how well the batteries have held up. And it turns out that, with the exception of certain hot regions such as the US state of Arizona, the batteries in these early mainstream EV models have held up surprisingly well. In most cases, they seem to last a lot longer and further than the 8 years or 100000 miles that Nissan gave them warranty over. The average range loss seems to be occurring at a much lower rate than many had expected.

The trick with Lithium-ion batteries is that you should avoid completely depleting them or charging them fully. Keeping the battery state between, say 20% and 80%, is the best, and tends to extend the lifetime of the battery considerably. And the battery management systems (BMS) in newer EVs have gotten much batter at managing this for you if you leave your vehicle plugged in.

Also, even if the range diminishes over time, that doesn't automatically mean the vehicle becomes useless to everyone. For city cars you don't require that much range, and even if the range becomes unacceptably limited (say less than 70% than how it was brand new), EV batteries can serve an excellent second life as storage batteries.

The Johan Cruyff Arena in Amsterdam (the biggest sports stadium in the city) currently uses an array of repurposed former Leaf batteries as an electricity storage buffer for the solar panels on the roof of the stadium. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/nissan-lea … terdam-stadium/

And lastly, as batteries become cheaper and cheaper and the energy storage density increases, eventually people will want to upgrade the batteries in their old EVs anyway. Even if Nissan won't offer them at a reasonable price, auto repair shops will likely fill that void by offering more affordable aftermarket solutions. 🙂 They'll have to, since they'll be making less money from regular maintenance, since EVs have a lot less parts than ICE vehicles, and therefore require much less maintenance in general.

Reply 536 of 564, by sf78

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Jed118 wrote on 2021-04-21, 14:01:

Those are good points, however you keep bringing up high end cars such as BMW and Mercedes. Those cars do not interest me, I have no need of such opulence 😜 You'll find that many people do not care about stuff like that. Even if I won the lottery, I likely wouldn't splurge on something like that. Also, those cars fall into the "if you can't afford the maintenance, you can't afford the car" category: I neither have the desire, time, or funds to keep one of those cash pits going.

Understandable, but you can get a used one for pennies that still has good service history and if you Google a bit you can find which engine and model year to buy that doesn't have major issues. I've never had anything big break down, mostly shocks and brake pads and what not. The lates Merc I had had over 300k (km) on it and everything worked just fine. It does take an effort to read about the typical faults these cars have, but you really can get a tremendous car for a few thousand.

My main problem is that EV's still have quite a limited range and I'm really not going to spend more than 15 minutes charging a battery. And by that I mean it has to go from 10% to 90-100% in that time. You are still limited by what type of charger you come across or you have to plan your route to take advantage of the fast chargers.

Reply 537 of 564, by wiretap

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gerry wrote on 2021-04-23, 09:13:

it may be a moot point in 10-20 years anyway as the majority give up on owning cars (see various cars as a service predictions) and we just use them as self drive taxis; "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace"

That would likely vary by region. I don't see it happening in 10-20 years in the US, as too many people like driving themselves and like owning a car. But, maybe I'm wrong since the next millennial generation of "just rent everything" kids are a much different breed. Myself, I would not want a self driving car, nor would I want to depend on a taxi/shuttle service if I needed to go somewhere. It would however be a good service if you lived in a big city where people already depend on public and private transportation services. Even then, in the US big cities, a lot of people still own cars because everything is very spread out here and public transportation lines only go so far.

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Reply 538 of 564, by Woody72

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This my current ride, a 2014 Seat Leon FR with the 184PS 2.0 turbodiesel. It's my other hobby, I do all the maintenance on her:

IMG-20200912-163214.jpg

Modern PC: i7-9700KF, 16GB memory, RTX 3060. Proper PC: Pentium 200 MMX, 128MB EDO memory, GeForce2 MX(200).

Reply 539 of 564, by Jed118

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Woody72 wrote on 2021-04-24, 13:07:
This my current ride, a 2014 Seat Leon FR with the 184PS 2.0 turbodiesel. It's my other hobby, I do all the maintenance on her: […]
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This my current ride, a 2014 Seat Leon FR with the 184PS 2.0 turbodiesel. It's my other hobby, I do all the maintenance on her:

IMG-20200912-163214.jpg

Thought that was a Scirocco for a second.

Youtube channel- The Kombinator
What's for sale? my eBay!