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First post, by dr_st

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Probably everyone was at one point excited about some technology, that we thought was cool and had potential, but due to various reasons it never took off / flopped.

Mine is DVD-RAM.

When I first got introduced to the world of optical media burning, the limitations of -R/RW media seemed to me very inconvenient to be used for backup. R is single-write, RW can be written multiple times, but basically you have to manually erase/reformat each time, or use the insanely slow, incompatible and unreliable "packet writing" method, which basically cheats to get you to feel as if you are doing random writes, while really it does the same sequential stuff behind your back (until it is out of space and you have to format).

So DVD-RAM looked really awesome. a 4.7GB disk that you can truly write to using random access, like a huge floppy or a small hard drive. It is supported almost natively by any modern OS (XP requires you to install a driver, Vista+ have support built in), works seamlessly, and is said to survive many more rewrite cycles than RW media. The "official" numbers are 100,000 cycles (versus 1,000 on RW), and while I am sure they are bogus, I've had some RW media become unreliable after fewer than 10 rewrites, so as long as DVD-RAM was more durable than that (and it is), I thought I was set.

But the format never really took off. First, I guess that the media is relatively complex to manufacture. There were only a handful of providers. It has always been very rare on store shelves. As a result it was significantly more expensive (in some cases 10 times as much as similar capacity RW media). Prices did go down eventually, and online you can find the media fairly cheap, but then you hit the other problem:

It's slow. Dreadfully slow. The standard supports 12x and 16x media, but I have never seen anything higher than 5x in the mass market, and a lot was even slower than that. Not to mention that DVD-RAM has built-in forced verification after every write, which is a nice thing for reliability, but means that the actual speed is half the formal speed. Given the inherent penalty when writing small files, it can literally take more than an hour to fill a single disk. It it much more efficient to use cheap expendable 16x -R media, and then throw it in the trash and burn a new one each time you need to modify a backup archive. In many cases cheaper too, and you are less likely to hit compatibility issues (DVD-RAM media is rarely read by anything other than PC optical drives and professional racks, and not even by all of them).

And, of course, today, with the age of fast, cheap, huge-capacity random access rewritable flash/magnetic media, all optical disks are all but obsolete, and DVD-RAM just follows the pack.

But I still have a warm place for it in my heart, and I still have about 20 disks which I use as another layer of backup (in addition to hard drives in various locations), mostly for personal archives that change rarely and infrequently. But at this point it is more a fetish than useful practice.

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Reply 1 of 129, by Tertz

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Nvidia 3D Vision. Ghosting kills everything, especially in 1st revision. 60 Hz is few. Artifacts and issues in stereo 3D in most games. Unrealistic parallax for comfort play. Games look uglier in stereo.
Also not much good movies in stereo 3D, especially at the moment of appearance.

dr_st wrote:

And, of course, today, with the age of fast, cheap, huge-capacity random access rewritable flash/magnetic media, all optical disks are all but obsolete

Optic media is more steady to environment. A flash may get data corrupted when it's close to magnetic field or electromagnetic oscillations. A working cell phone, acoustic systems, microwave, ... - are factors of risk. Also I doubt a flash has longer time of guaranteed data keep than DVD-RW.

DOSBox CPU Benchmark
Yamaha YMF7x4 Guide

Reply 2 of 129, by Dominus

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Dos emulators!

Windows 3.1x guide for DOSBox
60 seconds guide to DOSBox
DOSBox SVN snapshot for macOS (10.4-11.x ppc/intel 32/64bit) notarized for gatekeeper

Reply 3 of 129, by dexter311

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The Sega Dreamcast. Probably one of my favourite consoles, it had some absolutely fantastic, ground-breaking games, and was probably the closest thing to a home arcade machine at the time in terms of the ports that it received. Jet Set Radio, Metropolis Street Racer, F355 Challenge, Grandia II, Phantasy Star Online, Soul Calibur, Capcom vs SNK, Crazy Taxi, Marvel vs Capcom, Powerstone, the 2K Sports games, Resident Evil... damn this system had some excellent games.

Then there was the innovations - first online console either through modem or broadband, VGA output, the VMU (memory card with a screen and buttons on it), first console with analog triggers... not to mention it was very powerful back in its day.

There's probably a few reasons for it's failure in the marketplace though. Piracy was rampant since it was so easy to run copied games (the GD-ROM didn't do a thing to stop it). The PS2 could play DVDs, while the Dreamcast had a semi-proprietary format. Next to no proper marketing, at least where I'm from anyway.

Reply 6 of 129, by Zup

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Those floppy disk things.

I received my first computer in 1985 (a Sinclair ZX Spectrum +) and I used tapes to play games. Everybody was saying that floppy disks were the future. And now, more than thirty years later, floppies are almost extinct but tapes are still used on cutting edge computers 😉

I have traveled across the universe and through the years to find Her.
Sometimes going all the way is just a start...

I'm selling some stuff!

Reply 7 of 129, by VileR

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FED (Field emission display) and SED (Surface-conduction Electron-emitter display) panels. We could've had the advantages of CRT combined with those of the flat panel by now.

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Reply 8 of 129, by vladstamate

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dexter311 wrote:

The Sega Dreamcast. Probably one of my favourite consoles, it had some absolutely fantastic, ground-breaking games, and was probably the closest thing to a home arcade machine at the time in terms of the ports that it received. Jet Set Radio, Metropolis Street Racer, F355 Challenge, Grandia II, Phantasy Star Online, Soul Calibur, Capcom vs SNK, Crazy Taxi, Marvel vs Capcom, Powerstone, the 2K Sports games, Resident Evil... damn this system had some excellent games.

Then there was the innovations - first online console either through modem or broadband, VGA output, the VMU (memory card with a screen and buttons on it), first console with analog triggers... not to mention it was very powerful back in its day.

There's probably a few reasons for it's failure in the marketplace though. Piracy was rampant since it was so easy to run copied games (the GD-ROM didn't do a thing to stop it). The PS2 could play DVDs, while the Dreamcast had a semi-proprietary format. Next to no proper marketing, at least where I'm from anyway.

When I worked at Imagination Technologies, just after Dreamcast went under there was a lot bad feeling about Sony. "Sony killed Dreamcast!" some used to say, more or less jokingly. Then years later when I left to work for Sony, on PlayStation 3, I got a lot of "what?! why would you do that?" 😀

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Reply 9 of 129, by Scali

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The Commodore Amiga is one.
PowerVR and its tile-based deferred rendering is another (although, it has managed to cut out a niche in the mobile market, so only a failure for desktops/consoles).
Larrabee is yet another. I really like the idea of a GPGPU that is so generic that it's really just a multi-core CPU with some SIMD units on steroids. I think we'll get to that point eventually, but Larrabee was perhaps just a few years too soon, and perhaps also not executed as well as it could have been.

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Reply 10 of 129, by jesolo

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PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Sony Mini Disc 😢

When it came out, I thought it was actually a very nice technology (being a replacement for all my cassette tapes).
I even went as far as to buy a portable Sony Mini Disc player and paid a fortune for it back in 2000 (I still have it).
However, I think that when portable media players (iPod, etc.) became more popular with consumers, the Mini Disc lost its appeal.
It is just much more convenient to just store all our music on a digital storage device and listen to it than having to carry around a whole bunch of discs or tapes.

Reply 11 of 129, by JayCeeBee64

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RCA SelectaVision VideoDisc.

http://www.cedmagic.com/home/cedfaq.html

Here is a link showing the inside of an RCA CED player:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XoTc9l7ObHY

And here is a link with a sales promo from 1980. A bit boring, but the player and disc show up near the end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bekfDV23rGM

I remember seeing this same promo at Sears back in 1981 with a couple of high school buddies, and was intrigued by the idea of using a stylus to play movies from something the size of an LP record; too bad my parents couldn't afford it then and no one I knew ever bought one. By 1986 it was all over, RCA had thrown in the towel and gave up on CED. It's ironic that VCRs and videotapes, which contributed to its demise, have almost disappeared from the current consumer market as well.

Ooohh, the pain......

Reply 12 of 129, by konc

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Nice thread 😀

Sony's MD for me also, got and paid for one back then only to never see things I was interested into getting released in this format. Used it as a "lossless" recorder for a while before I moved on.

But since the thread is kind of open judging from its title, I'd add Windows phones. Really loved them (yeah I know, I'm alone in this!), apparently they never managed to become mainstream/widely used.

Reply 13 of 129, by Scali

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konc wrote:

Used it as a "lossless" recorder for a while before I moved on.

It uses lossy ATRAC encoding though 😀
Similar to mp3.

konc wrote:

I'd add Windows phones.

I think it's a bit too soon for that though? I would say that for a product to have 'flopped', by definition it should no longer be available on the market. Windows Phones are still alive and well, new hardware and software is still being released periodically.

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Reply 15 of 129, by realnc

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Scali wrote:

The Commodore Amiga is one.

That didn't flop. It was a huge success and dominated the computer gaming market for years.

What was a flop was the Amiga CD32. I bought one back then. Oh boy, the biggest waste of money still until this day.

Reply 16 of 129, by jesolo

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Scali wrote:
konc wrote:

I'd add Windows phones.

I think it's a bit too soon for that though? I would say that for a product to have 'flopped', by definition it should no longer be available on the market. Windows Phones are still alive and well, new hardware and software is still being released periodically.

I agree. I'm typing this post right now on my Windows Phone (Lumia device).
I haven't seen any indication of Microsoft exiting the mobile phone market very soon.

Reply 17 of 129, by dexter311

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konc wrote:

But since the thread is kind of open judging from its title, I'd add Windows phones. Really loved them (yeah I know, I'm alone in this!), apparently they never managed to become mainstream/widely used.

Windows Phone is getting big in business so I've heard.

Reply 18 of 129, by Scali

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realnc wrote:

That didn't flop. It was a huge success and dominated the computer gaming market for years.

I wouldn't say it was a huge success, nor that it 'dominated' the gaming market.
Initially the Amiga 1000 was a dud. It took them 2 years to figure out that you need a low-cost machine (like the C64 was), and they finally launched the Amiga 500 to fill that niche.
By that time they had already lost quite some terrain in that market to the Atari ST. As a result, a lot of early Amiga games were poor Atari ST ports and/or 'lowest common denominator' products. So a lot of games on Amiga weren't quite as good as they could and should have been.

Commodore also completely neglected to design a roadmap for the future. So even though the Amiga had some success for a few years, there was nowhere to go from there. The Atari 1200 arrived way too late, and was not competitive enough with the cheap multimedia PC clones that were now flooding the market.

Given the incredible technology that the Amiga housed, I would say it was the biggest flop ever. This thing should have taken the market by storm, destroying everything in its path, based on its technical merits. Instead, it struggled to compete with the Atari ST and PC clones, which were both considerably less advanced on a technical level.

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Reply 19 of 129, by konc

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Scali wrote:
konc wrote:

Used it as a "lossless" recorder for a while before I moved on.

It uses lossy ATRAC encoding though 😀
Similar to mp3.

Absolutely correct, this is what quotes were for. I remember their ads promoting the perfect/100% digital (of course, even 8kbps mp3s are 100% digital 🤣 ) /crystal clear etc sound, while everything was degraded compared to the source.
Probably a very unfortunate use of the word "lossless", but we do agree on the essence.