Windows 11 works best with 32GB or more and NVME or SATA SSD as I found this memory size out even with NVME. Windows 10 works well with 16GB or more and SSD perferred, or use full platters (like 4 platters or more 7200 rpm or 10K or 15K SAS drives if using SAS controller. Also SAS SSD are available too.

Hard drive is for people who cared about noise and watch kettle boil for windows 10 and 11. 😀 Or have one with 1 head hard drive. 😁

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:35:

Windows 11 works best with 32GB or more and NVME or SATA SSD as I found this memory size out even with NVME. Windows 10 works well with 16GB or more and SSD perferred, or use full platters (like 4 platters or more 7200 rpm or 10K or 15K SAS drives if using SAS controller. Also SAS SSD are available too.

Hard drive is for people who cared about noise and watch kettle boil for windows 10 and 11. 😀 Or have one with 1 head hard drive. 😁

Cheers,

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable.
Thats why I am not going to spend allot of money on a New computer right now.
I am waiting for the dust to settle on the battle between hard drives and SSD cheap storage solutions.

My hard drives died in my WD MyCloud NAS so I had to find a cheap temporary storage solution until the price of large capacity SSD came down.

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:46:

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable. Thats why I am not […]
Show full quote

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:35:

Windows 11 works best with 32GB or more and NVME or SATA SSD as I found this memory size out even with NVME. Windows 10 works well with 16GB or more and SSD perferred, or use full platters (like 4 platters or more 7200 rpm or 10K or 15K SAS drives if using SAS controller. Also SAS SSD are available too.

Hard drive is for people who cared about noise and watch kettle boil for windows 10 and 11. 😀 Or have one with 1 head hard drive. 😁

Cheers,

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable.
Thats why I am not going to spend allot of money on a New computer right now.
I am waiting for the dust to settle on the battle between hard drives and SSD cheap storage solutions.

My hard drives died in my WD MyCloud NAS so I had to find a cheap temporary storage solution until the price of large capacity SSD came down.

The Western Digital NAS solutions aren't very good in my experience. I had one that died too. I prefer to go with a build your own solution with an enclosure from a reputable company.

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:35:

Windows 11 works best with 32GB or more

Why do you say this? What are you doing that requires that much mem usage?

My Win11 box has been perfectly happy with 16GB... 'idleing' (relativly speaking) uses ~6GB (VS2019, Firefox {youtube +3/4 other tabs}, MS Teams {you'd be surprised how much this uses at idle 😮} and Edge {3/4 tabs} all open...).

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:46:

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable. Thats why I am not […]
Show full quote

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:35:

Windows 11 works best with 32GB or more and NVME or SATA SSD as I found this memory size out even with NVME. Windows 10 works well with 16GB or more and SSD perferred, or use full platters (like 4 platters or more 7200 rpm or 10K or 15K SAS drives if using SAS controller. Also SAS SSD are available too.

Hard drive is for people who cared about noise and watch kettle boil for windows 10 and 11. 😀 Or have one with 1 head hard drive. 😁

Cheers,

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable.
Thats why I am not going to spend allot of money on a New computer right now.
I am waiting for the dust to settle on the battle between hard drives and SSD cheap storage solutions.

My hard drives died in my WD MyCloud NAS so I had to find a cheap temporary storage solution until the price of large capacity SSD came down.

Used SAS SSDs are not too expensive now that you have a SAS controller, why not do that?

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 22:31:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:46:

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable. Thats why I am not […]
Show full quote

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:35:

Windows 11 works best with 32GB or more and NVME or SATA SSD as I found this memory size out even with NVME. Windows 10 works well with 16GB or more and SSD perferred, or use full platters (like 4 platters or more 7200 rpm or 10K or 15K SAS drives if using SAS controller. Also SAS SSD are available too.

Hard drive is for people who cared about noise and watch kettle boil for windows 10 and 11. 😀 Or have one with 1 head hard drive. 😁

Cheers,

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable.
Thats why I am not going to spend allot of money on a New computer right now.
I am waiting for the dust to settle on the battle between hard drives and SSD cheap storage solutions.

My hard drives died in my WD MyCloud NAS so I had to find a cheap temporary storage solution until the price of large capacity SSD came down.

Used SAS SSDs are not too expensive now that you have a SAS controller, why not do that?

Cheers,

Yes, I think I am going to remove the internal 5.25” drive bay cage an add a 2.5” SSD drive cage.
Win-10 has 3 more years of support left so I only need this to last 3 years before I upgrade again.
I don’t know what the future of PC motherboards is. But the architecture is obsolete.
There maybe a complete redesign soon.
Graphic cards are too big and heavy, Sata ports are becoming obsolete, you can’t put Nvme slots all over the MB taking up space and running to HOT. CPU’s are also running to HOT and drawing to much power.
So I think the PC motherboard is in for a complete redesign soon.
Maybe the Intel NUC or mini PC is the future. Like the Mac mini.

spiroyster wrote on 2023-04-10, 20:15:

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:35:

Windows 11 works best with 32GB or more

Why do you say this? What are you doing that requires that much mem usage?

My Win11 box has been perfectly happy with 16GB... 'idleing' (relativly speaking) uses ~6GB (VS2019, Firefox {youtube +3/4 other tabs}, MS Teams {you'd be surprised how much this uses at idle 😮} and Edge {3/4 tabs} all open...).

I was doing computing builds and repair for nearly 35 years, as hobby and for money (worked at several shops and this current job not just for phones). My first 386 computer was 4MB and this was not enough ram with windows 3.11, had to be 8MB and I was poor late teens.

Typically a optimum build tend to be 2x more in ram than recommended and specific type of hard drive fully built up, (not the cheapie 1 head or 2 heads) or SSD was my best advice for anyone for 7 and 10, not anymore. If you find yourself that works well for early on eg: 8GB on a windows 7 but not too long later on, slows, then this not optimum, that exactly mirrors my experience. For this case that's 16GB is optimum for anyone, really, 8GB is old hat. Same with windows 10, 16GB was good early on from the initial release of windows 10 but with the bloat and need to be up to date and current releases of software over the years to this current stuff, you are on borderline with 16GB. The new current is now 32GB for windows 10 and 11 for normal use. When windows 11 get enforced in 2025, I'll be on 64GB, while users should be on 16GB and ideally 32GB.

Our family computer that my parents uses is good enough for them is 16GB and was this way for nearly 6 years, but I replaced hard drive for 1TB SSD awhile ago, upgraded to i7-4790K just weeks ago, to keep up with games that my father plays. The big mistake was my parents picked up the parts I recommended to them from computer store and the clerk didn't have the board I selected (4 memory slots) so they gave them a very cut down motherboard which is two memory slots meant stuck at 16GB. Plus I discovered several issues over the years due to cut down nature.

I have about 100 tabs and heavy web user, youtube and facebook. Facebook is very hard on computer and I have to take graphics heavy training courses by my work and apple's, which I'm studying right now to get my repair certification that our new franchise requires of us.

Cheers,

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2023-04-10, 22:47:

Yes, I think I am going to remove the internal 5.25” drive bay cage an add a 2.5” drive cage. Win-10 has 3 more years of support […]
Show full quote

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 22:31:

Intel486dx33 wrote on 2023-04-10, 19:46:

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable. Thats why I am not […]
Show full quote

Yes, I am going to ditch my hard drives as soon as larger capacity SSD become available and more affordable.
Thats why I am not going to spend allot of money on a New computer right now.
I am waiting for the dust to settle on the battle between hard drives and SSD cheap storage solutions.

My hard drives died in my WD MyCloud NAS so I had to find a cheap temporary storage solution until the price of large capacity SSD came down.

Used SAS SSDs are not too expensive now that you have a SAS controller, why not do that? Money are in Canadian.

Cheers,

Yes, I think I am going to remove the internal 5.25” drive bay cage an add a 2.5” drive cage.
Win-10 has 3 more years of support left so I only need this to last 3 years before I upgrade again.
I don’t know what the future of PC motherboards is. But the architecture is obsolete.
There maybe a complete redesign soon.
Graphic cards are too big and heavy, Sata ports are becoming obsolete, you can’t put Nvme slots all over the MB taking up space and running to HOT. CPU’s are also running to HOT and drawing to much power.
So I think the PC motherboard is in for a complete redesign soon.

No, less than 2 years. The EOL date is 2025 for windows 10. Save up for new computer preemptively starting now, recommended that you have at least 1,500 for normal user, for gamers, 2,500. Cheap days is over.

TRUST ME, really.

My mini computer is for learning windows 11 was 470 at initial purchase from ebay nearly a month ago, shipping included. HP Elitedesk 800 G5 mini: i5-9500, one module 16GB, 1TB spinner (now removed), includes power supply. I had to pay customs fee at pick up hence 470 total. Fits the windows 11 requirements and COA key is built into the computer so saved me 185 cdn plus taxes.
Further 60 dollars got second 16GB module (ebay) was exact part number to create matched set, and another 140 tax included locally, new 1TB NVME WD black SSD, and another 50 got me EK NVME heatsink.

I do not want to re-buy parts to convert the mini to 65w version so I was careful to find one already built, hence the bit more cash but this saved me much in the end. Needed to covert from common 35W mini is top cover (it is grille vent), motherboard (35W has 3 phase VRM with 4th phase pads empty, hence need 4 phase VRM for 65W, all copper heatsink. All these 3 parts are expensive with top cover nearly impossible to get.
35W vs 65W processors is large in performance difference.

That's not cheap these days. And they were best prices I can find remember, I was not in for paying too much, I find best deal all the time.

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 22:49:

I have about 100 tabs and heavy web user, youtube and facebook.

Well that explains. 😅

For almost three decades I've witnessed and assisted many people around me claiming "my computer/smartphone is slowing down and/or running out of storage space." Most situations were mixtures of installing bloatware, not clearing cache/recycle bin periodically, lacking basic knowledge of file management (example: many retail brands have a smaller C:, either SSD or logical, for OS and major programs only, while a larger HDD or logical D: for personal files; I've seen many people who have C: almost used up but still have an empty D: due to Microsoft has "My Documents" under C:), or not closing unused apps and simply having them in the background. Google Chrome even introduced a "Memory Saver" function recently for those users by dumping inactive tabs from RAM, which I personally find it disgusting (auto-reloading can cause a page to lose info, particularly if the site updates frequently e.g. a news media).

The majority of non-tech savvy population simply don't have the need of huge RAM; a browser (for streaming and SNS), an office suite, and a few leisure games can satisfy >80% of computer users. Computer and smartphone manufacturers keep their mouth shut on methods of maintaining and repairing their products so customers would purchase more expensive models with shorter cycles. I do know a few doctors with loaded wallets do "require" 12-gen Intel Core-i7 for office works and web browsing; they simply want to show off their superpowers:

I picked up a stack of Windows 7-11 keys/DVD's along with a ASRock itx 6th/7th Gen intel board, a Pentium 2c/4t, 8gb of ddr4 a SSD + Zotac GTX 960 free. Used the GTX in a freebie i7 rig. Rest is getting used to swap out a A8 ITX Fm2+ setup, to then replace a 2nd gen i5 that a family member has so they don't have to buy a new PC just for Windows 11 support.

dormcat wrote on 2023-04-11, 05:25:

Well that explains. :sweat_smile: […]
Show full quote

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-10, 22:49:

I have about 100 tabs and heavy web user, youtube and facebook.

Well that explains. 😅

For almost three decades I've witnessed and assisted many people around me claiming "my computer/smartphone is slowing down and/or running out of storage space." Most situations were mixtures of installing bloatware, not clearing cache/recycle bin periodically, lacking basic knowledge of file management (example: many retail brands have a smaller C:, either SSD or logical, for OS and major programs only, while a larger HDD or logical D: for personal files; I've seen many people who have C: almost used up but still have an empty D: due to Microsoft has "My Documents" under C:), or not closing unused apps and simply having them in the background. Google Chrome even introduced a "Memory Saver" function recently for those users by dumping inactive tabs from RAM, which I personally find it disgusting (auto-reloading can cause a page to lose info, particularly if the site updates frequently e.g. a news media).

The majority of non-tech savvy population simply don't have the need of huge RAM; a browser (for streaming and SNS), an office suite, and a few leisure games can satisfy >80% of computer users. Computer and smartphone manufacturers keep their mouth shut on methods of maintaining and repairing their products so customers would purchase more expensive models with shorter cycles. I do know a few doctors with loaded wallets do "require" 12-gen Intel Core-i7 for office works and web browsing; they simply want to show off their superpowers:

superpower.jpg

Not quite, I have seen light users slow down even there is minimal bloat due to not enough ram and hard drive. This was due to not enough ram and not fast enough storage let be either hard drive and SSD.
Majority of computers I seen were low end configurations. Mid end and high end that comes across my bench is very rare.

8GB is not enough to have acceptable performance. Even 16GB is not enough for windows 11.

This bears out from my working on computers for hobby and for work.

Cheers,

Yeah, despite disabling and uninstalling a bunch of Windows 10 bloat without resorting to custom scripts and patches on my main PC, I'm still using something like 4GB just on an idle desktop. And to think people often called it more light-weight than 7. Will not be touching 11.
I've been using Ubuntu (one of the heaviest distros, ironically) on my secondary PC that I use for work and light gaming for a couple of years now without problems. I have a feeling I should switch completely before Microsoft eventually leaks all the telemetry, passwords and other data for it to wind up for sale on same shady forum.

Not today, but I just installed a couple XEON E5-2699 V3 CPUs I bought a couple weeks ago into a Dell T7910.

Less than $50 a piece for CPUs that were over $4k when released.

Now I just need to get more RAM for this system which I plan on using as a GP-GPU programming system. Only have 64GB right now... Wanting to get another 256GB for now. The sust m can take a max of 2TB RAM.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-04-11, 14:04:

Not today, but I just installed a couple XEON E5-2699 V3 CPUs I bought a couple weeks ago into a Dell T7910.

Less than $50 a piece for CPUs that were over $4k when released.

Now I just need to get more RAM for this system which I plan on using as a GP-GPU programming system. Only have 64GB right now... Wanting to get another 256GB for now. The sust m can take a max of 2TB RAM.

You have available PCle lanes, get a x4 lane SAS 4 or 8 port controller card and gather 4 inexpensive SAS SSDs and watch your programming tasks fly.

What are you programming this time and what was your creations in past?

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-11, 21:59:

You have available PCle lanes, get a x4 lane SAS 4 or 8 port controller card and gather 4 inexpensive SAS SSDs and watch your pr […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-04-11, 14:04:

Not today, but I just installed a couple XEON E5-2699 V3 CPUs I bought a couple weeks ago into a Dell T7910.

Less than $50 a piece for CPUs that were over $4k when released.

Now I just need to get more RAM for this system which I plan on using as a GP-GPU programming system. Only have 64GB right now... Wanting to get another 256GB for now. The sust m can take a max of 2TB RAM.

You have available PCle lanes, get a x4 lane SAS 4 or 8 port controller card and gather 4 inexpensive SAS SSDs and watch your programming tasks fly.

What are you programming this time and what was your creations in past?

Cheers,

I don't need that much speed as far as storage goes. I will be using SATA SSDs though.

The system already has a built in SAS controller.

The PCIe slots will be filled up with either Quadro or Tesla cards.

I have a Primes number program I wrote that scales pretty perfectly with each thread added. Theoretically it could currently use up to 2^32-1 threads and that is only limited due to the thread number variable being a 32-bit INT.

It also only uses a single thread lock and that is only for a single thread that has to wait for all the others to finish before it does its thing.

I need to add a large number library to it so I can generate even larger primes. With that addition, I should be able to generate pretty infinitely large prime numbers.

Right now it is only using CPU, but I plan on adding OpenCL or CUDA support.

Past that, I am not exactly sure what I will use it for yet.

Bought an Intel ARC A770 GPU for a video editing rig, its a surprisingly nice GPU with the latest drivers. I couldn't resist the temptation to take it for a test drive with a few games just to see how it compares with the 3000 series GPU I have in my main rig. It handles gaming with little issue till you start hitting the 4k resolutions and stupid detail levels, but even then with a few tweaks it'll still give 30 - 40 FPS in most games so long as you don't want RT and are willing to sacrifice bells and whistles.

Its on a 13th gen rig so it also hooks up with the iGPU on the CPU and uses it to help boost performance, IIRC AMD had something similar at one point, I wonder if they will resurrect it now that they have iGPUs on their mainstream CPUs.

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-04-11, 23:35:

Bought an Intel ARC A770 GPU for a video editing rig, its a surprisingly nice GPU with the latest drivers. I couldn't resist the temptation to take it for a test drive with a few games just to see how it compares with the 3000 series GPU I have in my main rig. It handles gaming with little issue till you start hitting the 4k resolutions and stupid detail levels, but even then with a few tweaks it'll still give 30 - 40 FPS in most games so long as you don't want RT and are willing to sacrifice bells and whistles.

Its on a 13th gen rig so it also hooks up with the iGPU on the CPU and uses it to help boost performance, IIRC AMD had something similar at one point, I wonder if they will resurrect it now that they have iGPUs on their mainstream CPUs.

I'm very interested in knowing more about the Arc A770, Are you testing in 1080p? I'm not interested in 4K. Also raytracing on in 108op needed to know too.

Cheers,

pentiumspeed wrote on 2023-04-12, 00:37:

TrashPanda wrote on 2023-04-11, 23:35:

Bought an Intel ARC A770 GPU for a video editing rig, its a surprisingly nice GPU with the latest drivers. I couldn't resist the temptation to take it for a test drive with a few games just to see how it compares with the 3000 series GPU I have in my main rig. It handles gaming with little issue till you start hitting the 4k resolutions and stupid detail levels, but even then with a few tweaks it'll still give 30 - 40 FPS in most games so long as you don't want RT and are willing to sacrifice bells and whistles.

Its on a 13th gen rig so it also hooks up with the iGPU on the CPU and uses it to help boost performance, IIRC AMD had something similar at one point, I wonder if they will resurrect it now that they have iGPUs on their mainstream CPUs.

I'm very interested in knowing more about the Arc A770, Are you testing in 1080p? I'm not interested in 4K. Also raytracing on in 108op needed to know too.

Cheers,

There are a ton of reviews for the A770 1080p on Google, with and without RT same for XeSS for the games that support it, it would be faster to check them out since I don't have a ton of free time to run benchmarks. Most reviews pit it against the 3060ti which does beat it for anything needing RT/DLSS but its also a much more expensive GPU and here in Australia the nVidia GPUs are stupidly priced still ~$850 AUD for a 3060ti 8Gb where the A770 16Gb was only $550 AUD.

300 AUD less for a card with twice the Vram and within spitting distance of the 3060ti isn't a bad option, the budget end of the market seems to have been mostly forgotten by the big two with their stupid pricing and AMD options here right now are rather lacking with most 6k series cards not stocked or priced at a level anyone on a budget wouldn't be buying.

So Intel picking up that space is really good.

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-04-11, 14:04:

Not today, but I just installed a couple XEON E5-2699 V3 CPUs I bought a couple weeks ago into a Dell T7910.
Less than $50 a piece for CPUs that were over $4k when released.

Me just curious, how would these (single cpu that is) fare when gaming on an X99 chipset system I wonder ?
Compared to a 'normal ' 6850K Broadwell ?

Seems like the turbo speed is 3.6Ghz, almost the same as that 6850K has - not sure on how many cores that is though, or how the speed scales with cores numbers (4 cores at 3.3Ghz?).
(would be nice to have 18 cores to play with for some video encoding or whatnot else, besides gaming)

bestemor wrote on 2023-04-12, 01:04:

Me just curious, how would these (single cpu that is) fare when gaming on an X99 chipset system I wonder ? Compared to a 'normal […]
Show full quote

cyclone3d wrote on 2023-04-11, 14:04:

Not today, but I just installed a couple XEON E5-2699 V3 CPUs I bought a couple weeks ago into a Dell T7910.
Less than $50 a piece for CPUs that were over $4k when released.

Me just curious, how would these (single cpu that is) fare when gaming on an X99 chipset system I wonder ?
Compared to a 'normal ' 6850K Broadwell ?

Seems like the turbo speed is 3.6Ghz, almost the same as that 6850K has - not sure on how many cores that is though, or how the speed scales with cores numbers (4 cores at 3.3Ghz?).
(would be nice to have 18 cores to play with for some video encoding or whatnot else, besides gaming)

The base frequency of the 6850k is 3.6Ghz and the regular boost is 3.8Ghz with the max boost being 4.0.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/produ … ifications.html

With a motherboard that can overclock, you can also set the 6850k to have the same boost on all cores and also up the boost a bit as well.

The 2699 v3 and v4 are not going to be unlocked. Not sure if you can set the boost to be all core or not either as I haven't even thought about trying. I may have to pick up another and see how it does on one of my single socket boards.