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First post, by Procyon

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The 8-Bit Guy made a video about CGA graphics which I thought the members of VOGONS might find interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niKblgZupOc

Enjoy. 😀

Reply 1 of 17, by BSA Starfire

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Interesting video, but CGA better than commodore 64 and Atari 8-bit graphics, that I can't agree with at all.

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Reply 2 of 17, by Procyon

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BSA Starfire wrote:

Interesting video, but CGA better than commodore 64 and Atari 8-bit graphics, that I can't agree with at all.

I wouldn't really know but yeah this guy does can come across as oppinionated sometimes, like when he said Mac/OSX users were smarter than PC/Windows users in one video. 🤣

Reply 3 of 17, by BSA Starfire

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first time I have watched one of his video's, but personally I'd struggle to put CGA above a ZX Spectrum, never mind a Atari 800.

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Reply 4 of 17, by Skyscraper

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I dont mind that people have opionions, neither on Youtube nor in real life. It's much worse when people are afraid of stepping on anyones toes and only talk about specifications. 😁

I tend to stay away from Youtubes comment section though.

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Reply 5 of 17, by BSA Starfire

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I totally agree, it was worth a watch though if just to see that lovely old Tandy "Laptop", christ you'd need a bloody big lap for that monster! 🤣

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Reply 6 of 17, by Scali

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Yea, I pointed out that the C64's memory arrangement and graphics capabilities (sprites, hardware scrolling, custom characterset) make it far more efficient than CGA, allowing for 50/60 fps arcade action games, that CGA can't dream of producing.
I'm the one who wrote the scroller+sprite routine for 8088 MPH, so I hope that puts some validity to my opinion on the matter 😉
For me, that was the first time I actually saw 60 fps smooth scrolling and flicker-free sprite movement on an IBM 5160 with CGA. But I am duly aware of the limitations, and I know you can't build many of the games seen on C64 like that.

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Reply 7 of 17, by MusicallyInspired

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Were games like Arctic Adventure programmed for 16-colour composite graphics? Would DOSBox ever be able to simulate this effect somehow? Or can it already?

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Reply 8 of 17, by Scali

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DOSBox 0.74 has a sort-of-working composite mode. SVN builds have a properly emulated composite mode, which can be switched on-the-fly.

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Reply 10 of 17, by Great Hierophant

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I was waiting for him to say something silly, but other than the C64/Atari comment, there was nothing that really caught my notice.

The 1400LT is pretty impressive, the composite CGA colors look decent. The Tandy 1400LT has a switchable 7.16/4.77MHz CPU clock speed. However, given that it has a V20 inside it, I doubt it was able to play 8088MPH without flaw. Someone should let me borrow theirs so I can make a blog entry on it 😀 I wonder if it would work if you replaced the V20 with an 80C88.

If I were going to use Maniac Mansion, I would have chosen the low-resolution version. The low resolution version has official, if undocumented and lacking a bit, composite CGA support. The high resolution version really doesn't have intentional support.

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Reply 11 of 17, by Scali

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Another thing is that I doubt the Tandy has exactly the same artifact colours as the IBM cards have.
As we know, even old style and new style IBM CGA are different.
The two CGA clones I have, differ even more from the IBM CGA colours. In fact, in some modes the phase is completely off (similar to how PCjr's artifact colours are WAY off compared to CGA).
So I can't really say how representative the Tandy is in the first place. I suppose I'd have to find all those games and run them on my real IBM and see.
Why can't people just use real hardware? 😀

Speaking of which, I've been surprised by how many people tried to run 8088 MPH on their V20 systems...
It's not called V20 MPH, is it? Not sure how we could have made it any more obvious 😀

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Reply 12 of 17, by xjas

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I used to have a 1400LT just like that. Was a really cool little machine! I remember playing Alley Cat & Tapper on the big living room TV. Video out of any kind was kind of a novelty back then.
I eventually traded it for a SWEET SGI Indy setup... which I gave back to the same guy a year or so later when I moved overseas and needed to downsize.

In retrospect the Tandy would have been a good one to hang on to, but I just didn't (still don't) have much use for an 8088.

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Reply 13 of 17, by Great Hierophant

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Scali wrote:
Another thing is that I doubt the Tandy has exactly the same artifact colours as the IBM cards have. As we know, even old style […]
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Another thing is that I doubt the Tandy has exactly the same artifact colours as the IBM cards have.
As we know, even old style and new style IBM CGA are different.
The two CGA clones I have, differ even more from the IBM CGA colours. In fact, in some modes the phase is completely off (similar to how PCjr's artifact colours are WAY off compared to CGA).
So I can't really say how representative the Tandy is in the first place. I suppose I'd have to find all those games and run them on my real IBM and see.
Why can't people just use real hardware? 😀

Speaking of which, I've been surprised by how many people tried to run 8088 MPH on their V20 systems...
It's not called V20 MPH, is it? Not sure how we could have made it any more obvious 😀

If I were a little less lazy, I would have tried a V20 in my 5150. It looks like the Tandy is pretty close to CGA, judging by the reasonably appropriate colors shown in the demo in his video. I bet the Kefrens bars will not look right. The Tandy 1000s are not close, nor is the PCjr. (which doesn't run the demo anyway).

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Reply 14 of 17, by VileR

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Since this video apparently surprised John Carmack as well...

...CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. 😈

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Reply 15 of 17, by Scali

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Great Hierophant wrote:

The Tandy 1000s are not close, nor is the PCjr. (which doesn't run the demo anyway).

Bisqwit ran it on his Tandy 1000 (I think it was), and it did quite well (sadly he used a green mono screen, so we don't know about the colours).
Trixter has a PCjr expanded to 640KB, and the demo works remarkably well on that too, except for the Kefrens bars and the wrong artifact colours in some areas. And of course the loading screen freezes, because the floppy does not have DMA, so it steals the CPU during transfers.

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Reply 16 of 17, by keropi

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VileRancour wrote:

Since this video apparently surprised John Carmack as well...

...CHALLENGE ACCEPTED. 😈

keen4c16.png

what. is. this. 😳
please tell me this is a WIP and not a single shot 😊

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