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Reply 140 of 197, by Intel486dx33

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The people in America who speak the clearest form of english are Bi-lingual ( Spanish / English )
The people of California speak the most precise english with out an accent. Everyone else speaks english with some sort of accent or variant form of english.

Reply 141 of 197, by brostenen

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:00:

The people in America who speak the clearest form of english are Bi-lingual ( Spanish / English )
The people of California speak the most precise english with out an accent. Everyone else speaks english with some sort of accent or variant form of english.

So. The British people speaks English with accent? One must wonder if it is not the people of California who speaks English with an accent?
And what English are we talking about at all? Is it American-English, British-English, Australian-English or perhaps Canadian-English?

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

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Reply 142 of 197, by Intel486dx33

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brostenen wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:07:
Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:00:

The people in America who speak the clearest form of english are Bi-lingual ( Spanish / English )
The people of California speak the most precise english with out an accent. Everyone else speaks english with some sort of accent or variant form of english.

So. The British people speaks English with accent? One must wonder if it is not the people of California who speaks English with an accent?
And what English are we talking about at all? Is it American-English, British-English, Australian-English or perhaps Canadian-English?

Yes, Californians speak english without an accent. Its not UK english. And even Americans have there own keyboard layout as opposed to UK english.

Reply 143 of 197, by brostenen

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:13:
brostenen wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:07:
Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:00:

The people in America who speak the clearest form of english are Bi-lingual ( Spanish / English )
The people of California speak the most precise english with out an accent. Everyone else speaks english with some sort of accent or variant form of english.

So. The British people speaks English with accent? One must wonder if it is not the people of California who speaks English with an accent?
And what English are we talking about at all? Is it American-English, British-English, Australian-English or perhaps Canadian-English?

Yes, Californians speak english without an accent. Its not UK english. And even Americans have there own keyboard layout as opposed to UK english.

If you are talking about American-English, then there is clearly an accent in California. If we are talking about real English without clearly stating what type it is, then it is automatically British-English we are talking about. So in a way, people do not speak English in USA. People in USA speak American-English also known as American. It is not that simple and straight forward to call it English. Without digging into correct accents, then I presume that it is in England as it is in Denmark, that the queen is talking the correct type of language. Everyone not talking as the queen in England, is talking with an accent. The same goes for Denmark. Anyone not speaking like the queen, are speaking with an accent.

And no. Californians speak with an accent as well. What you refer to, might be how "white" people speak in California. However they represent under 40% of the population of California. What about people in the countryside of California? People with African roots? People with Asian roots? And all other non-european ethnic groups in California? By your logic, all speak the exact same no matter if they come from the northern or southern parts of California. And you can not just say that the way people talk in California, are how people with european roots speak. There are still under 40% so called whites. Big cities like Los Angeles or San Francisco sounds really close and nearly the same, however looking at videoes on youtube about people from rural areas of California, gives a completely different picture.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 144 of 197, by Intel486dx33

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Well, I am just basing my answer on observations of people in California and television and radio.
Americans raised and educated in California usually speak english with-out an accent including Latinos, Hispanics, Asians, Africans and Pacific Islanders.

Its Not like any other place in America.

On the east coast they have there New York accents, in Texas they have there cowboy accent, in Florida they have there Caribbean accents, and Cuban accents. In Wisconsin they speak like Canadians.

But in California people try to speak english clearly and precise. I think it has to do with the education system and proper grammar.

Reply 145 of 197, by Errius

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jesolo wrote on 2020-11-23, 11:36:
Errius wrote on 2020-11-22, 21:10:

How do you say "old computer user" in other languages?

In English this is an ambiguous phrase. It can mean both "old user of computers" and "user of old computers". You have to decide which meaning is correct from the context (on this forum both are probably appropriate...)

In my native language, it will have the same ambiguous meaning, if I were translate "old computer user" directly.
There are many phrases (and sometimes single words) like that across different languages - it depends on the context in which you use it.

English originally developed as a rough patois for people of diverse nationalities trying to communicate and cooperate in a dangerous new country. This is probably why it dropped things like noun gender and inflected adjectives present in its parent languages. I would guess that something similar happened when Dutch turned into Afrikaans.

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 146 of 197, by henryVK

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:00:

The people in America who speak the clearest form of english are Bi-lingual ( Spanish / English )
The people of California speak the most precise english with out an accent. Everyone else speaks english with some sort of accent or variant form of english.

What Brostenen is trying to tell you is that, technically, there is no accent-free speech. Everything is an accent, even the perceived absence of an accent. California is probably an interesting case-in-point as it is one of the most diverse places in the US and the most recently "settled".

Reply 147 of 197, by brostenen

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:48:
Well, I am just basing my answer on observations of people in California and television and radio. Americans raised and educated […]
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Well, I am just basing my answer on observations of people in California and television and radio.
Americans raised and educated in California usually speak english with-out an accent including Latinos, Hispanics, Asians, Africans and Pacific Islanders.

Its Not like any other place in America.

On the east coast they have there New York accents, in Texas they have there cowboy accent, in Florida they have there Caribbean accents, and Cuban accents. In Wisconsin they speak like Canadians.

But in California people try to speak english clearly and precise. I think it has to do with the education system and proper grammar.

Yes, there are other places. Like England. And Californians do not speak the most clear English. They might speak the most clear American/American-English.
I still state, that if you are talking about English as a specific language, then you are talking about British-English.
And what you hear on television from California, are still the way that under 40% of Californians talk.

I did a little searching on the topic, and there are a indeed a difference throughout California.
The first one is the most easy to dig in to, as it is a Youtube clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80xMoaAiHfI

And then there are the more in dept find, that you need to read, if you think you have the time....

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/august/ca … ics-080612.html

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 148 of 197, by henryVK

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Errius wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:52:

How do you say "old computer user" in other languages?

In English this is an ambiguous phrase. It can mean both "old user of computers" and "user of old computers". You have to decide which meaning is correct from the context (on this forum both are probably appropriate...)

A very good example. The German language often lacks this ambiguity. If you literally say "old computer user" the phrasing already dictates the meaning: an old person that uses computers. If you want it to mean anything else you need to be more descriptive which is something German does (tediously?) well.

Reply 149 of 197, by Intel486dx33

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brostenen wrote on 2020-11-23, 16:02:
Yes, there are other places. Like England. And Californians do not speak the most clear English. They might speak the most clear […]
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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:48:
Well, I am just basing my answer on observations of people in California and television and radio. Americans raised and educated […]
Show full quote

Well, I am just basing my answer on observations of people in California and television and radio.
Americans raised and educated in California usually speak english with-out an accent including Latinos, Hispanics, Asians, Africans and Pacific Islanders.

Its Not like any other place in America.

On the east coast they have there New York accents, in Texas they have there cowboy accent, in Florida they have there Caribbean accents, and Cuban accents. In Wisconsin they speak like Canadians.

But in California people try to speak english clearly and precise. I think it has to do with the education system and proper grammar.

Yes, there are other places. Like England. And Californians do not speak the most clear English. They might speak the most clear American/American-English.
I still state, that if you are talking about English as a specific language, then you are talking about British-English.
And what you hear on television from California, are still the way that under 40% of Californians talk.

I did a little searching on the topic, and there are a indeed a difference throughout California.
The first one is the most easy to dig in to, as it is a Youtube clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80xMoaAiHfI

And then there are the more in dept find, that you need to read, if you think you have the time....

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/august/ca … ics-080612.html

These forms of slag derive from Americans who migrated to California from other parts of America and injecting there way of speaking
In Radio and TV. But this is not from the California education system or the way children are educated to speak in California.

Reply 150 of 197, by brostenen

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henryVK wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:55:

Everything is an accent, even the perceived absence of an accent.

So true.... So true....
In Denmark there is a term called "Bonde-sprog", that can roughly be translated to "Peasent language". Correct/official Danish is called "Rigs-Dansk" and can be roughly translated to "National Danish". Those that talk mostly with the official and correct Danish, are those that come from the city of Aarhus. However they do not have the same accent as our queen. Basically, the ones that speak with an Copenhagen accent, speak peasent-language. It is fun to poke at people from Copenhagen, and tell them that. 😁

For me. I speak with an accent that can not be placed. I speak with a mix of the accents from all over. A bit from Jutland, a bit from Fuen and a tiny bit from Zealand.
My X's grandfather who was raised in the same city as I, and that had been living in Aalborg for over 40 years, was in no way able to pinpoint were I came from. 😁

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 151 of 197, by Errius

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Intel486dx33 does have a point in that Californians don't seem to have a distinct regional accent. It's just generic 'American'. The east coast has several distinctive accents, as does the south and west. I can also usually tell Canadians from Americans by their accents. But there doesn't seem to be a specific 'west coast' accent. At least it's nothing I can recognize.

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 152 of 197, by brostenen

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 16:14:
brostenen wrote on 2020-11-23, 16:02:
Yes, there are other places. Like England. And Californians do not speak the most clear English. They might speak the most clear […]
Show full quote
Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-23, 15:48:
Well, I am just basing my answer on observations of people in California and television and radio. Americans raised and educated […]
Show full quote

Well, I am just basing my answer on observations of people in California and television and radio.
Americans raised and educated in California usually speak english with-out an accent including Latinos, Hispanics, Asians, Africans and Pacific Islanders.

Its Not like any other place in America.

On the east coast they have there New York accents, in Texas they have there cowboy accent, in Florida they have there Caribbean accents, and Cuban accents. In Wisconsin they speak like Canadians.

But in California people try to speak english clearly and precise. I think it has to do with the education system and proper grammar.

Yes, there are other places. Like England. And Californians do not speak the most clear English. They might speak the most clear American/American-English.
I still state, that if you are talking about English as a specific language, then you are talking about British-English.
And what you hear on television from California, are still the way that under 40% of Californians talk.

I did a little searching on the topic, and there are a indeed a difference throughout California.
The first one is the most easy to dig in to, as it is a Youtube clip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80xMoaAiHfI

And then there are the more in dept find, that you need to read, if you think you have the time....

https://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/august/ca … ics-080612.html

These forms of slag derive from Americans who migrated to California from other parts of America and injecting there way of speaking
In Radio and TV. But this is not from the California education system or the way children are educated to speak in California.

Well yes. Some migrated from other parts of America, were they had lived for generations. Other migrants came from Europe directly.
Like my great grandfather, that migrated from Denmark to California, only to have a small stop in NY-City on Ellis Island.
He setteled in California in 1899, with the help of friends that had previously migrated from Denmark
He worked at a farm at Big Dry Creek, then suffered heatstroke during the summer and then started to work in the mountains to cut down redwood's.
In 1905 he bought a small farm close to Fresno, and entered the Raisin production. He became part of the company that are called Sun Maid.
The land he bought, was Number 31, section 23 in township 13. That is in Eggers county.
Yup... He saved enough to buy land, in aprox 6 years of time.

So...
Some people who migrated to California, was already natural born citizens, others were migrants from Europe or other places.
I guess it was the gold, lumber and good farming land that drove people.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

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Reply 153 of 197, by brostenen

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Errius wrote on 2020-11-23, 16:27:

Intel486dx33 does have a point in that Californians don't seem to have a distinct regional accent. It's just generic 'American'. The east coast has several distinctive accents, as does the south and west. I can also usually tell Canadians from Americans by their accents. But there doesn't seem to be a specific 'west coast' accent. At least it's nothing I can recognize.

Yes. If we are talking about American. Yet American on its own, is English with an accent. Yet the data, as posted in the link, tell a way different story. There is indeed no such thing as Californian English, as the accents vary from northern California to southern California. Tv and movies are not a real representation of how people actually speak in the real world.

Don't eat stuff off a 15 year old never cleaned cpu cooler.
Those cakes make you sick....

My blog: http://to9xct.blogspot.dk
My YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/user/brostenen

001100 010010 011110 100001 101101 110011

Reply 154 of 197, by Intel486dx33

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brostenen wrote on 2020-11-23, 16:48:
Errius wrote on 2020-11-23, 16:27:

Intel486dx33 does have a point in that Californians don't seem to have a distinct regional accent. It's just generic 'American'. The east coast has several distinctive accents, as does the south and west. I can also usually tell Canadians from Americans by their accents. But there doesn't seem to be a specific 'west coast' accent. At least it's nothing I can recognize.

Yes. If we are talking about American. Yet American on its own, is English with an accent. Yet the data, as posted in the link, tell a way different story. There is indeed no such thing as Californian English, as the accents vary from northern California to southern California. Tv and movies are not a real representation of how people actually speak in the real world.

Well, In the San Francisco Bay Area ( Silicon Valley ) English is pretty much spoken the same and it is without an accent.
American - English.

Reply 155 of 197, by henryVK

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Errius wrote on 2020-11-23, 16:27:

Intel486dx33 does have a point in that Californians don't seem to have a distinct regional accent. It's just generic 'American'. The east coast has several distinctive accents, as does the south and west. I can also usually tell Canadians from Americans by their accents. But there doesn't seem to be a specific 'west coast' accent. At least it's nothing I can recognize.

It does have at least one very recognisable accent:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valleyspeak

Wikipedia lists a number of distinct vowel characteristics and a rural/urban divide as well, with inland rural accents more similar to southern twang.

Reply 156 of 197, by Errius

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Right. I immediately thought of Frank Zappa after making that post. How common is it really, though? Teenagers everywhere like to invent new ways of talking to distinguish themselves from their parents.

“Your mission is to attack and destroy the Apple Computer manufacturing plant. You are allotted 35 bombs and 60 lasers."

Reply 157 of 197, by Intel486dx33

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henryVK wrote on 2020-11-23, 17:53:
It does have at least one very recognisable accent: […]
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Errius wrote on 2020-11-23, 16:27:

Intel486dx33 does have a point in that Californians don't seem to have a distinct regional accent. It's just generic 'American'. The east coast has several distinctive accents, as does the south and west. I can also usually tell Canadians from Americans by their accents. But there doesn't seem to be a specific 'west coast' accent. At least it's nothing I can recognize.

It does have at least one very recognisable accent:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valleyspeak

Wikipedia lists a number of distinct vowel characteristics and a rural/urban divide as well, with inland rural accents more similar to southern twang.

I think this has more to to with Hollywood exaggerating the talk in Southern California.
However I don’t think it is as reverent today with the youth.
But it could have to do with how Ocean surfers differentiate themselves from everyone else in California.
In fact some of my relatives who live in Northern California beach town of Santa Cruz also noticed this tone of speaking.
I think it has to do with the beach community surfers.

But these are a small percentage of people that want to differentiate themselves from everyone else.

Reply 158 of 197, by henryVK

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Any accent is aquired one way or another and it'll always function as social demarcation and die out sooner or later, so I'm not sure you can dismiss Valleyspeak on those grounds. But I get where you guys are coming from. California English is very close to the dominant American accent. But the closer you look at it the fuzzier it gets because language is a continuum.

Reply 159 of 197, by digger

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Intel486dx33 wrote on 2020-11-22, 17:13:

Growing up with the Imperial systems of measurement it is easy for me to visualize these units of measurement.
It is not so easy to visualize units of measurement in metric.

I often hear that excuse from Americans who defend their archaic units of measurement.

First of all, that still doesn't explain Fahrenheit. Celcius is much easier: zero degrees is the melting temperature of water, 100 degrees is the cooking temperature of water. How does it get easier to comprehend than that? (To be fair, if we really wanted to stick to the proper SI units worldwide, we'd all be using Kelvins instead.)

Secondly, is that really true? I can visualize a centimeter perfectly well, to be honest. Just as easily as I can visualize an inch.

Also, a meter is about the same as a yard (just a few inches more). Is that so hard to visualize instead?

And lastly, I get what you're trying to say: an inch is roughly like the top of your thumb, a foot is like, well, a foot, etc. But how much advantage does that really give you in the practical sense?

I'll hand you one thing, though: having distances and speeds in miles when driving on the highway does make it easy to roughly calculate your travel time in your head. Your average speed in the US is about 60mph, and there are also 60 minutes in an hour. So the distance to your destination as shown on the signs roughly corresponds with the number of minutes before you get there, provided that most of your route goes over highways and there isn't any traffic to slow you down.

But here's a counter argument: how quickly can you tell me how many inches there are in a mile? Without grabbing a calculator? I can immediately tell you how many centimeters there are in a kilometer: 100000 (one hundred thousand).

However, maybe we can compromise on at least one thing: let's meet each other half way when it comes to the date format. Let's all agree on year-month-day. Most significant first, least significant last, just like with numbers. Easier to sort in a computer table as well. And hey, the day will still come after the month, just as you folks are used too. 😉

One more thing: you're really missing out with your paper formats, such as US Letter, etc. The cool thing about A4 and such is the fact that the ratio is 1:√2 (one to the square root of two). What's so cool about that, you might ask? Well, when you fold it in two, you get a half-sized format with exactly the same ratio (A5). Fold it again, and you still have the same ratio (A6). Pretty cool. US Letter doesn't have that. As you start folding it, you start getting weirder and weirder ratios. Seriously, if you're going to adopt anything from the rest of the world, go for the A4 paper format. On the other hand, people are printing less and less these days (thankfully), so that might be less relevant an issue than it used to be. 😄