There's also a space sim called Starlancer.
http://www.mobygames.com/game/windows/starlancer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlancer

So The list above should serve its own purpose, at least for me. Then there is a question too: Which of these games give the best play experience for a newcomer? Which mods and or fixes are a must to improve that experience?

Personally I have not played any of these games before past week. Past days I decided to install the following:

Wing Commander (V) Secret Ops + OpenGL patch
Small install size, so easy to take a quick look. I like the Graphics and the Techno/Rock music. This game is, unlike the others in the series, just an action game without much story. But that fits me having a lack of spare time. The enemy hitboxes are quite large which makes scoring a lot easier. The action is pretty good, but I don't like the insect-like enemy ship design. The executable remains resident after exit, so I made a Taskkill batch file for the game. [Edit: Just tried this game using the Intel HD Graphics instead of the Radeon: Executable closes correctly, briefing animation looks clearer. What else...]

FreeSpace 2 with FSOpen 3.7.4 and MediaVP 2014
The Graphics Improvements are impressive. Even shooting asteriods is fun to look at. The new 'shadows' option locks up my XP system with Radeon driver from 2011, the other options work fine. The Text to speech engine is interesting, but it sounds crappy and I mostly disabled it. The enemy hitboxes are small, probably fair, which makes the game more difficult. The joystick rudder function is very sensitive, and that is actually annoying , as I tend to spin in circles when I chase an opponent. I don't know wheter I will get used to it or wheter I can disable/reduce it somewhere.

Privateer - Gemini Gold 1.03 SVN version (2012) + Privateer - Gemini Gold Fix Pack 3.01 (2015)
Just installed this yesterday. But as I like open world games, I feel like giving this a try most of all. I am not enterily sure if the remake is the way to go, but I am also reluctant to play a space shooter in 320x200 (=original Privateer). Actually the remake appears to be mainly solid. It is just the little things that make me wonder: Hard to find out what is the best version to play. Small text in HD resolution. No way to quit the game when not in space.

I'd say the Wing Commander series for a newcomer to the genre. Lots of story and action, great music, and short learning curve. The main series is:
WCI
WCII
WCIII
WCIV
WC: Prophecy

I'd play them in order for maximum story and character immersion.

Do you intend to play these on period correct hardware, or emulation?

clueless1 wrote:

I'd say the Wing Commander series for a newcomer to the genre. ... Do you intend to play these on period correct hardware, or emulation?

Both yes and no... As for WC 1 and 2, Is it true that currently the only way to really enjoy them is on slow hardware? I read the DOS verion is temperamental on DOSBox and Windows 95 version has issues of its own. I would prefer to start off with WC III, as that one has SVGA graphics. I don't mind 320x200 normally but for space shooters it seems like such a handicap. But, I will reconsider.

skitters wrote:

There's also a space sim called Starlancer.

Thanks. added it to the list. Is it good?

gerwin wrote:

Both yes and no... As for WC 1 and 2, Is it true that currently the only way to really enjoy them is on slow hardware? I read the DOS verion is temperamental on DOSBox and Windows 95 version has issues of its own. I would prefer to start off with WC III, as that one has SVGA graphics. I don't mind 320x200 normally but for space shooters it seems like such a handicap. But, I will reconsider.

IMO WC1 and 2 are way ahead of their time graphically and musically. The story is topnotch too. When I re-played them, it was on a POD 200MMX with L1/L2 disabled. They played fine. I have not tried them in DOSBox, so can't speak for that. Maybe watch a few minutes of Let's Plays on YouTube to get a feel for the graphics. Phil's done some videos on various speeds of real hardware:
https://www.youtube.com/user/philscomputerlab … =wing+commander

gerwin wrote:

skitters wrote:

There's also a space sim called Starlancer.

Thanks. added it to the list. Is it good?

It's not bad, but it wouldn't be my top choice.

My favorite is actually Wing Commander: Privateer from 1993.
That's the one I had the most fun with.

Hmm, tricky one. I feel that you should start off with Wing Commander II. That game adjust for faster speeds, you can also manually override frame times if you want. It is more main streamed than Wing Commander 1. Wing Commander can be seen as a bit more hard core. So playing Wing Commander II will capture that early Wing Commander 320 x 200 feeling pretty well. It also has richer sound effects and digital speech, which was amazing back in the days.

All of them play fine in DOSBox, so those rumours are not true, in fact Wing Commander 1 runs arguably the best under DOSBox because it's so finicky with the speed and in DOSBox you can adjust the speed on the fly.

Privateer is also great, but it's much deeper, inspired by Elite with trading and missions and all of that. For any Wing Commander fan, it is often seen as the pinnacle of the series.

Personally I think that not counting Lucas Arts titles, Freespace games are the best from gameplay standpoint and Wing Commander series from "cinematic story showcase" standpoint. I mean that if it weren't for between-mission-coutscenes and story-building, Wing Commander games would be just dull. Think about it, did you enjoyed Wing Commander Academy much? It's basically Wing Commander 2 mission editor without the story.

Personally I enjoyed most of them - WC1, WC2, WC3, 4 & 5 with FMV's that were very good and watchable even now, Privateer (the first one), both Freespace games were awesome.

There were also Independence War 1 and 2. They had more realistic physics but I didn't played them much.

From mods I recommend Wing Commander Saga - The Darkest Dawn (I was a beta tester for this one) and Diaspora - Shattered Armistice - very impressive Battlestar Galactica mod based also on FS2Open engine.

For all things Wing Commander, check out the Wing Commander Combat Information Center:

http://www.wcnews.com/

Additional titles to add to your confusion:

NovaLogic's Tachyon: The Fringe
HD Interactive's Nexus: The Jupiter Incident
Merscom LLC Space Interceptor: Project Freedom

Embrace the confusion!

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Hmm, tricky one. I feel that you should start off with Wing Commander II. That game adjust for faster speeds, you can also manually override frame times if you want. It is more main streamed than Wing Commander 1. Wing Commander can be seen as a bit more hard core. So playing Wing Commander II will capture that early Wing Commander 320 x 200 feeling pretty well. It also has richer sound effects and digital speech, which was amazing back in the days.

All of them play fine in DOSBox, so those rumours are not true, in fact Wing Commander 1 runs arguably the best under DOSBox because it's so finicky with the speed and in DOSBox you can adjust the speed on the fly.

That sounds like good advise. Will try to start with WC2 then. Thanks.
So as clueless pointed out, you did quite a few youtube video's on configuring these early WC games, which will come in handy.
By the way. The complaint about WC1, which I read about, was that DOSbox speed had to be manually changed according to what was happening in a mission. I wonder if I ever had a game like that before, maybe 'Quarantine'? But I should first watch your video's anyways.

damson wrote:

There were also Independence War 1 and 2. They had more realistic physics but I didn't played them much.
From mods I recommend Wing Commander Saga - The Darkest Dawn (I was a beta tester for this one) and Diaspora - Shattered Armistice - very impressive Battlestar Galactica mod based also on FS2Open engine.

I will look up Independence War for completeness then. Realistic physics... Like no drag in space you mean?

Cool that you Beta Tested WC Saga, it is a small world. It seems as solid a production as FSopen. Though they did not change anything about it in the last 4 years and there aren't any add-on missions/mods either. However the tools section with a mission editor etc is dated may 2016, so maybe that will result in some additional user missions later.

Edit, Typo: Releastic -> Realistic

akula65 points out a great site. When I played through WC1-4 recently, I used that site a lot for help. At my age, I just want to enjoy the game and not be frustrated, so I'm happy to follow walkthroughs and hint guides and play on easy settings. The storyline is what interests me, not hand-eye coordination. 😊

I still have to play WC: Prophecy to complete the series. I'm a little side-tracked right now with Ultima VII: Serpent Isle, though!

gerwin wrote:

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

By the way. The complaint about WC1, which I read about, was that DOSbox speed had to be manually changed according to what was happening in a mission. I wonder if I ever had a game like that before, maybe 'Quarantine'? But I should first watch your video's anyways.

Wing Commander running well, it's quite subjective. Personally I like it to chug a bit. A 25 MHz 386 or so seems ideal. The game is much easier at that slow speed, and there is even music that won't fully play on faster machines.

If you use a faster machine, like a 40 MHz 386, then the game can be too fast when you are down to the last enemy. The joystick controls fall apart, feeling more "digital" than analog, making small corrections difficult.

So yea, I like to play that game quite choppy / low FPS because it's much easier that way 😀 I think a cycle speed of around 4000 or so worked well for me.

Wing Commander 2 auto adjust frame times, and you can even manually override them. So it's a much smoother experience.

PhilsComputerLab wrote:

Wing Commander running well, it's quite subjective. Personally I like it to chug a bit. A 25 MHz 386 or so seems ideal. The game is much easier at that slow speed, and there is even music that won't fully play on faster machines.

If you use a faster machine, like a 40 MHz 386, then the game can be too fast when you are down to the last enemy. The joystick controls fall apart, feeling more "digital" than analog, making small corrections difficult.

If that is the case why does Wing Command Kilrathi Saga (which is WC 1+2+3) require Pentium 75Mhz (this is according to the box text)? Is it because they have re-written the games for Win95 and they require more resources?

vladstamate wrote:

If that is the case why does Wing Command Kilrathi Saga (which is WC 1+2+3) require Pentium 75Mhz (this is according to the box text)? Is it because they have re-written the games for Win95 and they require more resources?

You just asked and answered your own question 🤣

I'm slowly playing through WC series. Even the first game looks really cool and is pretty easy to learn. Not a fan of its sound design, but the music is pretty great, too. Kilrathi Saga is a great way to enjoy the game if you don't have a dedicated 386 build and MT-32. I also enjoy the little things about its game design — it's pretty impressive to me that even the first game had branching storyline (the story changes if you fail a mission), AI companions and many great features.

There is also Elite/Frontier series. Played a lot of Elite 2 back in the day. However, Elite is more about trade/exploration than dogfighting and frankly, WC aged much better than those games and is definitely more accessible for a newcomer.

Elite: Dangerous, however, is a superb game. It's really beautiful and the ship controls and look'n'feel are awesome — especially if you own a HOTAS. Unlike X games it has a fairly straightforward interface and doesn't look like an Excel simulator. However, it does take a little time to master docking, mining fuel from stars and navigating within the star systems. Also, it doesn't have a plot or campaign — just a set of randomly generated missions. So for me it was a kind of game where you set your favorite playlist and just enjoy the journey — it's definitely not a space opera.

vladstamate wrote:

If that is the case why does Wing Command Kilrathi Saga (which is WC 1+2+3) require Pentium 75Mhz (this is according to the box text)? Is it because they have re-written the games for Win95 and they require more resources?

The bundle lists requirements for all games that are erm, bundled. So, WC3 is a much more advanced game and it does need a Pentium.

X-Wing vs. TIE Fighter was years and years of fun to play competitively against other players, and X-Wing Alliance was one of the best cinematic single player Star Wars experiences.

The biggest series that doesn't get enough recognition is Independence War (I-War) 1 and 2, very cool space combat sims with a Newtonian physics feel. Sort of the final form of what started with Warhead on the Amiga and its PC remake XF5700 Mantis.

I did a test run to play Wing Commander 1 on a Pentium 133 machine, and managed to run it smoothly, as how it played in my then 286 20MHz.

Unfortunately I couldn't see the images I posted there : The Pentium P54c, the Turbo Buton and the Internal Cache. And Wing Commander I is Happy!

Nowadays, I prefer to play it in Dosbox because I could control the speed across the series in a single laptop/desktop with MUNT as the icing.

I'll second the underrated Independance War 2 (haven't played the first). I had a HOTAS setup with foot pedals, and I had a permanent grin on my face trying to master the physics with that game. I really enjoyed its controls and dogfights.