Honestly it serves you right for not getting permission first. Your were told no and did it anyway. Not to mention public protesting hardly ever solves anything. I believe the only time it truly fixed anything was with the rights movement of the 60s in the USA.

If your truly upset about your government get off your butt and do something about the problem without braking your laws. Acting like a kid in a store who's parents will not buy him something doesn't fix anything, just makes the problem bigger.

Jade Falcon wrote:

Honestly it serves you right for not getting permission first. Your were told no and did it anyway. Not to mention protesting hardly ever solves anything. I believe the only time it fixed anything was with the rights movement of the 60s in the USA.

If your truly upset about your government get off your butt and do something. Acting like a kid in a store who's parents will not buy him something doesn't fix anything, just makes the problem bigger.

I should also mention that what we did was a flash mob, not some picket or meeting. No permission is needed for a flash mob, and it is illegal to detain for it. I had no any symbols with me or on me, and didn't say a damn thing. But in police they said "You were silent, but we think it was a meaningful silence."

Do you still think I were served right? What country do you live in? Do you need authorities' permission to go somewhere with a flashlight in your country?

To me it doesn't matter, call it what you want, piket, mod, silent sit in or protest. There all the same more or less, just some are more civil then others.

You were told not to protest and did it anyway. You now have to deal with the consequences. But jailing someone that asked permission is messed up.

There are better way of dealing with a corrupt government if you ask me, my town has a corrupt government and police force, if you tick off the mayor you get pulled over and fined for something you didn't do. Or put in jail for the night. I even herd of people getting pulled over out of town limits.
No one has yet to protest and the mayor is on its way out of office and one officer was kicked off the force after being jailed for pandering buy a higher authority.

I know Russia is not quite of simple of a problem, but protesting a corrupt government is just a bad idea.
A corrupt government is probably not going to have a problem doing something like this to its people to stay in power. My advice, find a better way to get rid of the corruption.

Jade Falcon wrote:

To me it doesn't matter, call it what you want, piket, mod, sit in or protest. There all the same more or less, just some are more civil then others.

Jade Falcon wrote:

protesting a corrupt government is just a bad idea.

Okay, I got it. You say that I cannot go anywhere (!) with a flashlight, or even poster, or even without anything just because I want to do so. According to you, I first have to convince YOU that it is a "good idea". And if I can't convince you, I should be prohibited my walk.

Jade Falcon wrote:

If your truly upset about your government

Then you shamelessly say that I am "falsely upset" with corrupted goverment.

Jade Falcon wrote:

Acting like a kid in a store who's parents will not buy him something

Here comes the culmination of your boundless wisdom: you liken protesting against incarceration of innocent people and "behaving like a whimsical kid in the store".

I've already consulted a lawyer, and it turned out that my actions were all legal and the authorities' actions were all illegal. But you don't care - you still blame the victim. Thus, you're a disciple of sword law. There are lots of them here in Russia: I am being told everyday that I "shouldn't go anywhere just because I were told not to". We who disagree with this were just few dozens of people in a half million city.

Jade Falcon wrote:

My advice, find a better way to get rid of the corruption.

Keep your wise advices to yourself.

Any other opinions?

I think it just sucks bristlehog , you can't just arrest flashlight holders (and by extend peaceful protectors) like that. They have been expecting you and they just wanted to make arrests, plain as the sun in the sky.
I don't know where the world is headed , it seems the governments are more away to the needs of the people than ever...

keropi wrote:

I don't know where the world is headed , it seems the governments are more away to the needs of the people than ever...

I can't speak on the world's behalf, but we here have stricken the bottom.

I heard that in Europe they don't treat you as livestock. Can you still go somewhere in Greece?

One of us, a 60 year old man, was beaten by the police for filming the moment of detaining; other, a student, was threatened like this: "I'll throw you into a fucking piss-covered chamber!" But the local policemen still think they are GOOD and KIND people. You know why? Because in Moscow and St. Petersbourg, authorities were even more brutish: hundreds of peaceful protesters were savagely beaten by riot police.

I watched dozens of videos of this protest and you know what? If you had "I'm against Putin" poster, they beat you and drag to the police wagon. If you had "I'm with Putin" poster, they beat you and drag to the wagon. If you had an empty poster, or no poster at all, or even had nothing to do with any political or civil actions and just rushed to a nearby McDonalds to pee - they still beat you and drag to the wagon!

So, if you're a Russian citizen in Russia, they beat you and drag to the wagon, like an animal.

Fuck them.

Our police force is the opposite here, see the news: there is burning and destroying almost daily in Athens in "anarchist places" and noone bats an eye. You can go out and protest as long as you are with the leftists and their minions, else you are a nazi and you can get beat up by the kind leftist/anarchist/antifascist people.
But Greece is a crappy country now, not even a sovereign one so you can't really do comparisons...

keropi wrote:

else you are a nazi and you can get beat up by the kind leftist/anarchist/antifascist people.

Can you expect police's protection if these leftist etc. people beat you?

Trying to figure out loopholes for protesting with cops just seems like a disaster in the making to me. If you're going to protest or whatever you want to call it then you have to accept the consequences of your actions if you get caught.

I've never seen the point of protesting seems it would be far more effective to do other things.:

Gathering evidence and sending to specific influential people in your country or everyone on the internet. (More effort than "protesting")
Infiltration of whatever is corrupted to make things better. (Alot more effort than "protesting")
etc

It also seems strange to me since protesting and getting arrested would likely get you on some sort of watch list, seems to me it would make more sense to stay off the radar and be more covert but again that takes effort.

People are mostly horrible. Best not to give them an excuse if you are in that kind of situation unless you are looking for some kind of statement to make. Filming when cops are around? Go ahead mabye you'll be fine and mabye not but considering how easy it is to covertly record it's more likely that someone wanted to be caught recording so they could get that in the recording.

Don't know what the law in Russia but in the US we can record in public spaces but if a cop is in your face and it's the heat of a moment then you don't want to play around unless again you are trying to make some sort of statement or you are willing to get that evidence on camera but shit can and does happen no matter if it's legal or not because people are people and when that testosterone kicks in all bets are off.

bristlehog wrote:

keropi wrote:

else you are a nazi and you can get beat up by the kind leftist/anarchist/antifascist people.

Can you expect police's protection if these leftist etc. people beat you?

You can expect them not being there or watch or drag you in after you've had enough... the whole thing is total bs for normal people. When normal people try to protest then the leftists/anarchists/whatever come and start trouble, police starts shooting tear gas and the protest is no more - peaceful or not doesn't make a difference.

DosFreak wrote:

you have to accept the consequences of your actions if you get caught.

Get "caught"? Like, for standing with a flashlight? What do you mean by this "caught"?

They can detain or even arrest me if I do something illegal. If I'm standing with a flashlight, which is perfectly legal, they still got right to "catch" me according to you?

When you are just standing and not breaking the law, and some people suddenly "catch" you and drag somewhere, how do you call them? I call them bandits.

DosFreak wrote:

Don't know what the law in Russia but in the US we can record in public spaces but if a cop is in your face and it's the heat of a moment then you don't want to play around unless again you are trying to make some sort of statement or you are willing to get that evidence on camera but shit can and does happen no matter if it's legal or not because people are people and when that testosterone kicks in all bets are off.

According to Russian law, you can record police, be that in public spaces or in police station. And yes, the police still can beat you up, destroy your camera or cellphone, and jail you for recording them. Because in Russia they don't give a single fuck about the law. Some of them don't even know the very basic statutory provisions regulating police work.

Don't think it too much bristlehog, they were told to arrest people and that's what they did. You could be group-hugging and still get arrested.

for one i'm with You on this, Bristlehog; however the point made here is just as well, you will not get far by opposing like that and getting beaten up;
i have similar but not that serious a problem with the sheep here - as long as it doesn't hurt people's own interests, all people who try to change something or point out how wrong something is being done are criminals or less than human; this works both on legal and societal levels - the problem are the 'people'; the tactics per se is just "divide et impera" and works pretty well in a society where you have to meet certain standards to have any human right;
people never really got 'freedom' as a term - they don't want to, because thats more work than just saying 'you're stupid, so we don't care';

as for the answers - gathering evidence and showing it - even here in poland you can get in real trouble for that;
infiltrating - becoming part of the problem as a solution? this just broadens your horizon, but will not serve as any strong point for the general public that votes;

That's just so sad to hear, bristlehog. In our country, the protests or march are normally held for want of social benefits, condemning rise in prices/crimes and such. Never had we witnessed one against corruption, as probably it had become part & parcel of our society. Normally in our country you would not get detained for asking such permission, but you may have to face indirect consequences later. Coming to the flash-light thing, it would have only attracted strange looks from the bystanders, as such forms of silent protests are not prevalent in our country.

Corruption is just everywhere and has come to become a 'close to perfect' vicious loop where the law-keepers have become the law-breakers due to misuse by those in power. There is no foreseeable cure to such vile traits of human nature, mostly observed in recent generations in a grand scale as an offshoot of modern society. You can't rid corruption in a society where all the checks and balances are corrupt too. A -ve feedback loop is conveniently missing between the government & the general public, or, if it is there then it is not effective for sure.

On a seemingly unrelated note, corruption has probably to do with the fact that we have 'advanced' to a 'level' where we need not worry much about food, water, shelter, transportation etc. as long as we posess money. Most of us don't have to do any physical labour to hard earn money, as now there are umpteen ways to earn it 'smartly'(read sophisticated jobs). As a result, building one's character is not so important nowadays, which is foremost in eradicating corruption at its root itself. That too, such characters should be in the majority in a society for a meaningful outcome.

On the subject of protesting and whether or not it gets you anywhere, on the short-term, it does not gain you much. Look at it on the long-term though and the gains become much more apparent. Never stop speaking your mind against anyone that feels that your freedom of speech should be contained.

I feel for you bristlehog, the situation in Greece is not much different. Police forces get to ambush and attack protests all the time with multiple arrests every time. Videos are out there if you want to see for yourself, although I believe most protests in the western world are treated in much the same way. It is definitely not an isolated incident and definitely not a perk of Russia.

The right to protest is one of the fundamental rights in a well functioning society. Many countries around the world are not that unfortunately. Here in Scandinavia you would not be arrested for anything like what is happening in Russia.

Big demonstrations have had huge effects in multiple countries throughout history and most if not all were illegal under the vurrent regime. Dont underestimate the power of the people.

You could try the Gandhi approach, just show'em the brutes they are.
Next time when you go on protest load yourself up with squibs filled with porkblood and when the police comes along to beat you up there will be so much blood it's like the vampire disco from Blade.
Off course you must have a newsteam from CNN close at hand.

This is an interesting conversation to me. I live in the US and I live very close to Ferguson, MO (only a few miles away in fact). I don't know if anyone recognizes the name but several years ago there was a lot of protesting around the shooting of a young black man by police. I am not going to express my opinion on that part of it, because frankly there is not enough details for me to make a judgement, but the court found that the policeman was justified in his actions. All throughout the process there was protesting and much of that protesting led to rioting where the people in the black neighborhood destroyed property and looted stores all throughout their own neighborhood.

There were peaceful protesters as well, but only a few aggressive protestors ended up escalating the situation until the police took crowd control action. To this day it's hard to tell exactly who is at fault in the end.

The bottom line is we absolutely have the ability to protest, however I also feel like as a country there are people here to just look for reasons to protest regardless if they are legitimate or not. And a few protesters acting inappropriately can escalate things to where peaceful protestors end up getting hurt. The way the media handles things it's less about what is right and wrong and more about what kind of story can be told abut injustice in the streets.

Now that Trump is president there is also much critiscim of him and a lot of people say he has ties to Russian government and business. Lots of people with theories that Russia somehow hacked our election and got Trump elected and things like that are going around.

Rhuwyn wrote:

much of that protesting led to rioting where the people in the black neighborhood destroyed property and looted stores all throughout their own neighborhood.

Policemen who beat up peaceful people and protesters who loot stores are to me just different sides of the same coin. They all are deceitful violent men hiding under plausible slogans. Some say "I want to serve the law!' to cover their urge to wield the power and abuse it at their own discretion. Others say "I want to protest!" to cover their urge to pillage.

Rhuwyn wrote:

Now that Trump is president there is also much critiscim of him and a lot of people say he has ties to Russian government and business. Lots of people with theories that Russia somehow hacked our election and got Trump elected and things like that are going around.

I personally don't care whether Russia hacked your election or not. What I know of Trump is that he is one of the business people, not some sage from an ivory tower, like Obama or Clinton. I believe he will be one of the best US presidents of all time due to his presence of common sense. And due to the same reason I don't think Trump will show much loyalty to Russia, since Russia has fallen beyond any common sense, and what happened here 12 June only proves it once more.