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Reply 100 of 159, by mihai

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chinny22 wrote on 2021-03-25, 09:56:

I've made a list I've shared with my wife and brother as I have a lot of money sitting in these boxes, explain what to do should anything happen to me.
The S478 for example would be lucky to sell for £100. it's GF6800 Ultra alone could probably sell for the same price.

That's generous. I will insist to be buried together with my 3dfx Voodoo2 in an ESD bag and my original disk of Splinter Cell - Chaos Theory (with Starforce).

The Voodoo card is to screw with archeologists after 2000 years and let them devise stupid theories about burial rituals.

The game - maybe to finish it eventually.

Spoiler

it's a joke!

Reply 101 of 159, by feipoa

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gerry wrote on 2021-06-16, 16:44:

I think what I'm saying is that if hardware x and hardware y give just about the same performance and experience but x is more expensive then why would an enthusiast choose x? in that case it isn't to experience it in use unless of course if its because of specific enthusiasm for hardware

The hobby is largely about the hardware these days, obsessively ogling over it like some old car that you occasionally take out for a drive. If you think about it too much, it starts to seem quite silly. For some people, I think it can be equated to an obsession or addiction disorder. Then Youtube took off and now those with an addiction disorder can say it is a viable business. Voila, addiction resolved!

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 102 of 159, by Caluser2000

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I use my 1978 Honda CB550F motorcycle a regular basis. As well as this 32-bit P4 system by gollie(I hope no one is offended by that word). They do exactly what they were designed to do when they left the show room floor..

So does my 1990 Zenith 286LP Plus now that I think of it.

There's a glitch in the matrix.
A founding member of the 286 appreciation society.
Apparently 32-bit is dead and nobody likes P4s.
Of course, as always, I'm open to correction...😉

Reply 103 of 159, by creepingnet

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cyclone3d wrote on 2018-04-16, 06:29:

I think it would devolve into the eBay sellers having a place to go to find a list of prices so they could try marking them up even more instead of doing their own research to find what they should sell stuff for.

And then when the stuff doesn't sell for what they think it should sell for, they cancel the sale and say it was because the item was damaged/whatever. And then you see the same exact item from the same exact seller pop up with an even higher starting price a few days later. No, I'm not bitter about some of the jerks that sell on eBay.. not one bit.

I agree with this, and it already kind of has with a lot of other people outside e-bay looking up the prices on these systems and then wondering why in the hell their generic 486 laptop on another site won't sell for 3 1/2 years because they are asking $450 for it. Then mentally deficient people make it worse by paying that much for these old systems which then justifies the cost to the seller so it becomes standard even if there's nothing particularly interesting or different about the system from another of the same vintage that can be had for less.

TBH, I'm really finicky about discussing prices of hardware because I got into this because it WAS cheap. It used to be I could buy up piles and piles of vintage Pentium and older hardware at thrift stores for pennies on the dollar, and that was part of the appeal to me in the 2000's. On one hand I feel like it's doing us a MAJOR disservice because we already have the sellers, shoppers, and the mainstream media (all those articles and clickbait crap about "This man found an old computer in his attic and now has $100,000" or "100 things in your basement that might be worth a lot of money!"). But on the other hand, I think maybe setting a standard, officiated list of values could also help us because then we'd be setting a limit that would prove that people are overcharging massively for stuff on the market.

I could literally write a book on this one.....my methods, how I Shop, how I sell.....in short though.....

I try to be a responsible shopper and a responsible merchant when I do sell my vintage PC stuff.

When I buy/bid, I set a SET price limit on myself, and I don't waver at all. If on e-bay, I'll watch the item in question for months upon months, even years, to see if the seller ever gets a clue to lower the Buy It Now - and sometimes they never do, and fine, then I don't buy their obnoxiously priced hardware. I rarely ever make offers because I find most of the slimeballs on there won't even respond, even if it's $5 under. I think it's absolutely ridiculous that almost everything now is treated like some kind of super-rare, hard-to-find, difficult to obtain Clockmond Diamond in the rough. Especially when said device is AS/IS, untested, or is obviously broken and despite pictures the user is trying to gloss over it, or did not provide enough decent pictures to even know if the thing was not dug out of a swamp, hosed off with a garden hose, and then put on e-bay as "untested - for parts - RARE - $450.99". Honestly we don't NEED these computers, but I also don't want to be the one contributing to the problem by paying $150+ on some old computer because it keeps new people from getting into the joy of the hardware. Unless it's extremely historically significant, and in limited supply - I find it ridiculous to charge over $150 for anything - especially untested/asis.

When I sell - which is RARE - I'll test the whole machine out, post pictures, even video - and give a decent starting price I know someone starting out can afford, and usually the system goes to someone who - at least by seller comments - is very happy with the transaction because they got a fair price, I make a small profit. I also often don't give a Buy It Now price because there's just too many politics involved in that - including what's bringing us this thread, because I honestly can't say what anything is worth. If I put a price over $75, I feel like I'm ripping people off because that's my set maximum price - but if I put it for $75 B.I.N. I'm limiting myself from someone who REALLY wants the machine enough to pay more. I try my hardest to be as fair as possible - and that's one reason I don't sell much. It just puts too much stress on my conscience.

If we really want to get serious about pricing, as a vintage computing community, then we will, someday, need to establish standard prices for various machines just like vintage guitars or classic cars. And it would need to be something officiated to keep people from getting ripped off, and publicized enough to raise awareness that THIS is the going rate for blah blah blah, and this is too much, and this is too little - and based on what condition, completeness, and whatnot. A good thing is we will see less "garbage" being touted as "vintage PC, RARE, Untested, AS/IS" that way - like a certain XT Clone I've seen on E-bay with a busted off faceplate, lots of rust, banged up case, and the thing is going for $150.00 - I would not charege more than $25.00 for that. We also will need to stop being so nice and be allowed by parts of the community where it's often banned, to point out when someone selling hardware or software is being ridiculous or not.

~The Creeping Network~
My Website - https://sites.google.com/site/thecreepingnetwork/home - ending 9/2021
My Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/creepingnet
NEW WEBSITE - 9/2021 https://creepingnet.neocities.org/

Reply 104 of 159, by creepingnet

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feipoa wrote on 2021-06-16, 20:52:

The hobby is largely about the hardware these days, obsessively ogling over it like some old car that you occasionally take out for a drive. If you think about it too much, it starts to seem quite silly. For some people, I think it can be equated to an obsession or addiction disorder. Then Youtube took off and now those with an addiction disorder can say it is a viable business. Voila, addiction resolved!

And it's really easy for it to become that, especially when I Started out in the 2000's - at one point I had over 40 machines at my mom's house in my room and in our shed - that's ridiculous. Thankfully I sold almost all of them and they're hopefully all still out there giving someone else some joy. Those computers sold for no more than $55/ea and I made a cool grand - enough to move out on my own, get an apartment 3000 miles away in Seattle at the time, and start my adult life.

You really know when you hit the hoarding status on these things when you have at least a few machines hanging around you hardly ever run at all (I'm almost walking that borderline myself - hence planning another downsize) and have little-to-no interest in maintaining actively. I have to wonder about some of the more famous youtubers and other people we don't know of who have to have storage facilities for this stuff and how they ever expect to actually fix all that stuff. No Judgement meant but you can only have so many "Rainy day" projects - computers or otherwise - because you're overwhelming yourself. I would not be surprised if Vintage hardware get's it's own "Garage Find" thing going on. I already kinda end-up doing that with old computers co-workers and friends give me - like some kind of Computer VIce Grip Garage of sorts.

~The Creeping Network~
My Website - https://sites.google.com/site/thecreepingnetwork/home - ending 9/2021
My Youtube Channel - https://www.youtube.com/creepingnet
NEW WEBSITE - 9/2021 https://creepingnet.neocities.org/

Reply 105 of 159, by feipoa

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WTF? Gainbery with IBM 5x86-100HF marketed for 75 MHz sells for $168 USD.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/324673858591

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 106 of 159, by Anonymous Coward

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It’s new in box. Loose maybe $50?

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 107 of 159, by feipoa

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I was thinking its maximum value might be $60.

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 108 of 159, by kixs

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Like with everything... prices go only up (for now). For some things I've never considered to pay more then 50€ a few years ago, I'm paying 200€++ now 🤣

My Amibay: SALE | BUY - Updated on 2021-07-06 | Requests also possible

Reply 109 of 159, by JohnBourno

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gerry wrote on 2021-06-15, 10:05:

I don't want to be a killjoy, but is terms of user experience - once its installed and set up and the buyer is facing a monitor with keyboard at the ready - what's the experience available to them that isn't also available to someone with a far cheaper 486 or (dare i say it) some other later machine with the same OS, video, sound card etc?

To me the joy of building a fast 386 system is about the question "what could have been". I got my first 386-40 in 1992 and quickly realized that it was too slow for many games in '93 and later. So I bit the bullet and sold most of the main parts and upgraded to a 486 DX2-66.

A couple of years ago, I bought the exact same 386 machine I used to own and started to push its limits. More RAM, faster RAM, BIOS swap, more cache etc. And now I would like to know how far I could have gotten in 1993 without swapping for a 486.

Reply 110 of 159, by Anonymous Coward

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Sometimes I still want to believe my 486 could be faster than a Pentium if only I had the right upgrades...

"Will the highways on the internets become more few?" -Gee Dubya
V'Ger XT|Upgraded AT|Ultimate 386|Super VL/EISA 486|SMP VL/EISA Pentium

Reply 111 of 159, by gerry

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JohnBourno wrote on 2021-09-09, 11:54:
gerry wrote on 2021-06-15, 10:05:

I don't want to be a killjoy, but is terms of user experience - once its installed and set up and the buyer is facing a monitor with keyboard at the ready - what's the experience available to them that isn't also available to someone with a far cheaper 486 or (dare i say it) some other later machine with the same OS, video, sound card etc?

To me the joy of building a fast 386 system is about the question "what could have been". I got my first 386-40 in 1992 and quickly realized that it was too slow for many games in '93 and later. So I bit the bullet and sold most of the main parts and upgraded to a 486 DX2-66.

A couple of years ago, I bought the exact same 386 machine I used to own and started to push its limits. More RAM, faster RAM, BIOS swap, more cache etc. And now I would like to know how far I could have gotten in 1993 without swapping for a 486.

"it's the journey not the destination" - that kind of thing, yes i can understand that

Reply 112 of 159, by BitWrangler

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At least we're not as weird as the antique clock and watch guys, everything they mess with runs at the same speed whenever it was made 😉

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 113 of 159, by feipoa

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AMD K6-III+ 550 sells for 530 GBP, that is $729+$14 shipping = $742 USD.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/313670712902
18 Sept. 2021
7 bidders and 30 bids total

They went for $70 usd on CPU-World earlier this year, so that's a nice 10-fold return on investment.

I find this sale one of the more shocking ones because the more plentiful and cheaper K6-III+ 400 ATZ chip, which also runs at a much lower voltage, can clock to 600 MHz just as easy, if not easier, than the 550 MHz chips. Because of this, it is most likely that the buyer of this auction is wanting the 550 for its rarity and collection value rather than its overclocking potential.

Last edited by feipoa on 2021-09-19, 04:11. Edited 1 time in total.

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 114 of 159, by BitWrangler

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Pheweee....

old man ramble

there's some kind of magnetism to those K6-III+ ... and of course I've got a magnetic personality, 😉 but seems to be the same polarity as those CPUs because I have been trying to lay hands on one (On and off, and not for a stupid price) since 2001ish and they get repelled or something. Twice I find them in stock at Tiger Direct back in the day, (Well maybe a few times more often, but when I was flat broke) and the one time my wife was out with my card, because the strip had got worn off on hers, so I had to wait for her to get in.... and they were then gone... then months later we finally remember to order new cards because mine is flakey by now too, and I find them in stock again, but guess what.. forgot to activate the new cards, doh, by the time that is all sorted, out of frigging stock again. Then I went through a period of getting sniped on eBay for a dozen or two listings, then sniping for myself and not getting anywhere, in desperation I ran one up to $80 once, which was ridiculous then really, but prior bidder must have set $100 max or something. Then there's several times I appeared to miss them by mere minutes on various classified listings, I tell yah, somehow I'm not meant to have one... Oh there was a "successful" purchase, I spent $15 on a "K6-2 mobile" crossing my fingers but it turned out to be a 1.8V regular K6-2 mobile when it turned up. Ah yeah, then there was the time I lowballed a job lot, that the only good thing in it was a plus, was mildly surprised when the seller accepted, and it arrived... and no plus, seller was like "Yah I sold that separate the day before." gah.

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 115 of 159, by HangarAte2nds!

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I think just because some people are whiny children is no reason to avoid discussing difficult topics, like religion or hardware prices. I would imagine the 5x86 133 is very rare. Sometimes people buy things for more than they should because their want is disproportionately high. A lot of times, this is driven by nostalgia. I have considered that, assuming I could really just burn a few hundred bucks at once, I would buy a Gravis Ultrasound because I had one growing up. But in the face of a recession, global pandemic and political unrest, I have adopted a wartime mentality and I am lowering myself to using such components as: Opti sound cards, WD video cards, non-intel motherboards and I even bought my first Am486, a DX4-120. Those are pretty rare. I think they typically sell for around $150 but I got it with a Pine MB and 48MB RAM for $80 on an eBay auction because the seller didn't list it very well and probably didn't know how uncommon they were. If I hadn't lucked into it, I would be looking at a DX2-66 or DX4-100.
I think I would pay $414 for an intel Overdrive ES if I were a serious CPU collector. Can't be too many of those floating around. Lucky for me, I want things I lusted after as a kid and a lot of those are actually pretty reasonable in price. I sourced a NOS Tx486SLC/E recently for $15 and an IIT 3c87 for $20 on eBay, both upgrades I tried to talk my dad into in 1993 when Doom was released. He didn't think it would be worth it. And he may have been right. I'll find out. Back in '93, that probably would have been a $400 upgrade. We got a P90 the following year so I am glad we didn't upgrade the 386. I also never got a PII. Looks like I can still build one cheaply, though I don't really need it. I am building an overclocked MMX and PIII 600.

Reply 116 of 159, by feipoa

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With the continuing rise in price for these items, it got me wondering: are the capital gains from the sale of old computer parts reportable on one's income tax return? If so, what if you don't know your cost basis?

Ultimate 486 Benchmark | Ultimate 686 Benchmark | Cyrix 5x86 Enhancements | 486 Overkill Graphics | Worlds Fastest 486

Reply 117 of 159, by BitWrangler

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I think you go by fair market value at the time you received it. I know that's true for gifts say, if you got given a hockey card or painting for your birthday years back when it was only worth $50, then it gets to be worth thousands later. Thing is that you need some rational/logical method of determining it that you can explain to the taxman later, and it needs to be consistent, no cherrypicking high value by one method for one item then using a different method that results in higher value for another. As for reporting, I think you fly under the radar at below ~$10,000 a year, (and I think your bank tips them off if they see cashflows of $2000 a month from undisclosed sources, ie not your paycheck) but then if taxman decides your hobby is a business anyway, that's when you claim all the electricity ever used to run and fix everything, tools, storage space (20% of the running costs of your house maybe), shipping fees, and admin costs as deductions. I are not an accountant or tax lawyer though.

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 118 of 159, by BitWrangler

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Is it me or did the price of Voodoo Banshees just explode, I got one last month and thought, "cool I got a $40 card for cheap" now I don't see any NEAR that price... they gone jumped to where V3s were.

2017: Basement full of ancient PC stuff, starting to go through it. 2021: Still starting, heh, many setbacks. So what's this BitWrangler guy's deal ??? >>> Taming the pile, specs to target?

Reply 119 of 159, by cyclone3d

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Nope, they have been expensive for quite a while. You got a "great deal" at only $40.

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