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Reply 480 of 673, by konc

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Cyrix200+ wrote on 2020-01-20, 10:56:
konc wrote on 2020-01-20, 10:03:

No one misses the text tool? (cursor not changing to "I"when hovering over text).

That's addressed in this post bij Snover: Re: Welcome to the updated VOGONS

Thanks, I've missed that one. So the changed cursor also has side effects.

Reply 481 of 673, by devius

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konc wrote on 2020-01-20, 10:03:

No one misses the text tool? (cursor not changing to "I"when hovering over text).

Just one more issue caused by the custom cursor.

Reply 482 of 673, by DracoNihil

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cde wrote on 2020-01-19, 09:10:
I personally don't care either, but I can understand how it would make the site harder to use for people with poor eyesight who […]
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maxtherabbit wrote on 2020-01-18, 22:45:

a website overloading the default system mouse cursor strikes me as a feature on par with background MIDI and spinning wordart gifs

but tbh I didn't even notice it until people got all fired up about it, so I don't actually care

I personally don't care either, but I can understand how it would make the site harder to use for people with poor eyesight who need a big cursor, or people who use hidpi screens.

By the way, you can disable custom cursors on all website with Firefox by putting the following in your chrome/userContent.css:

body * {
cursor: default !important;
}
body a {
cursor: pointer !important;
}
body input {
cursor: text !important;
}

This doesn't seem to completely "fix" the problem because, with this now some of them just show a regular system pointer rather than the intended pointer for that. (even more bizarrely if you hover around the absolute edge of a button it shows the "correct" cursor, but then goes back to the "incorrect" standard pointer)

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Reply 485 of 673, by Daniël Oosterhuis

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Paralel wrote on 2020-01-18, 22:00:

I can't possibly be the only person here who thinks this crosses the line into ludicrous, am I?

No, you're not. It's utterly bizarre that the response to a serious roadblock for accessibility by a self-admitted "silly feature" is "fix it yourself, I can't be bothered to just turn it off for the moment until I can find the time to make it an opt-in feature, or find another way to implement it". I can appreciate that making it opt-in will take time, but surely removing the line of code setting the cursor to a custom image can be removed within minutes?

It's said that it's supposedly able to be disabled in Chrome settings, but everything I tried doesn't work. So I'll just have to install an extension and set up a custom script to disable it. Now that is absurdly form over function. Someone with accessibility features needs to do all this crap just to be able to use a single site. This is like removing wheelchair enterances on buildings, and telling people using wheelchairs to just bring their own planks to put over hard to enter enterances in order to be able to enter.

And yeah, I know people have gotten bashed because they kept talking about the cursor, but I'll repeat it: I won't step down from talking about such an important accessibility roadblock. I really am thinking about just leaving VOGONS too, I'm utterly disgusted by how this is being handled, to be completely frank.

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Reply 486 of 673, by Dominus

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I agree that it is bad form to hijack the cursor, IMO.
But you are blowing this completely out of proportion and using people with disabilities as scapegoats for your own agenda.
Handling the cursor IS on Snover's list. So please back off and calm down.
Pushing the button again and again won't make an elevator go faster. And throwing insults at Snover is definitely not going to make HIM go faster.

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Reply 487 of 673, by Daniël Oosterhuis

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Dominus wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:07:

But you are blowing this completely out of proportion and using people with disabilities as scapegoats for your own agenda.

That's what you're making out of it. You don't know my intentions, I do, and I know that part of your post is utter rubbish.
And I did not "insult", I very meticulously made sure not to do so. If you think I did, I'd really rather see you quote said insult than just make the general statement I did.

If I was wrong on the cursor code being a 5 minute job to remove, I'll happily accept that.

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Reply 488 of 673, by Dominus

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Again, please calm down. It's a cursor. Only a cursor. No need to get your blood pressure up on this or try to get in a nasty fight over a CURSOR.

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Reply 489 of 673, by Daniël Oosterhuis

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Dominus wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:26:

Again, please calm down. It's a cursor. Only a cursor. No need to get your blood pressure up on this or try to get in a nasty fight over a CURSOR.

You're the one arguing in bad faith, not me.

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Reply 490 of 673, by appiah4

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Daniël Oosterhuis wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:27:
Dominus wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:26:

Again, please calm down. It's a cursor. Only a cursor. No need to get your blood pressure up on this or try to get in a nasty fight over a CURSOR.

You're the one arguing in bad faith, not me.

As someone outside looking in, it doesn't really seem that way..

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Reply 491 of 673, by Daniël Oosterhuis

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appiah4 wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:28:
Daniël Oosterhuis wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:27:
Dominus wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:26:

Again, please calm down. It's a cursor. Only a cursor. No need to get your blood pressure up on this or try to get in a nasty fight over a CURSOR.

You're the one arguing in bad faith, not me.

As someone outside looking in, it doesn't really seem that way..

Again, I'd love to hear why people think I'm some sort of boogeyman railing on mods to get my kicks while using disabled people as a shield. Because that's effectively what is being insinuated about me. Let me be clear: No, it doesn't bother me, the cursor change is a bit grating on some of my desktops, but I can access the site fine and would not be this vocal about it if that were it. I am again, willing to accept if any statements I made are false, but that's not what's happening. I'm being told I "scapegoat behind disabled people", and when I challenge it, it's just ignored. Anyways, given that's what I'm being taken for, I suppose I'll stop posting now, because it is now starting to affect my mood. You can disagree with me all you want, but when I'm being painted as something I'm not, that's where I have to draw the line.

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Reply 492 of 673, by appiah4

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Daniël Oosterhuis wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:44:
appiah4 wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:28:
Daniël Oosterhuis wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:27:

You're the one arguing in bad faith, not me.

As someone outside looking in, it doesn't really seem that way..

Again, I'd love to hear why people think I'm some sort of boogeyman railing on mods to get my kicks while using disabled people as a shield. Because that's effectively what is being insinuated about me. Let me be clear: No, it doesn't bother me, the cursor change is a bit grating on some of my desktops, but I can access the site fine and would not be this vocal about it if that were it. I am again, willing to accept if any statements I made are false, but that's not what's happening. I'm being told I "scapegoat behind disabled people", and when I challenge it, it's just ignored. Anyways, given that's what I'm being taken for, I suppose I'll stop posting now, because it is now starting to affect my mood. You can disagree with me all you want, but when I'm being painted as something I'm not, that's where I have to draw the line.

I did not mean to ruin your mood or tell you what you are doing, I just wanted to let you know that your persistence and attitude makes you look petty and entitled. I realize the cause of your argument and I think you are in the right, but you may want to reconsider your method and reasons, that's all.

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Reply 493 of 673, by Joseph_Joestar

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Dominus wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:26:

Again, please calm down. It's a cursor. Only a cursor. No need to get your blood pressure up on this or try to get in a nasty fight over a CURSOR.

While the cursor change doesn't bother me personally, I can see how it would be irritating to people who dislike it.

The cursor is what you navigate the forum with, you are constantly exposed to it. It's not some minor background element that you see on occasion, it's always front and center.

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Reply 494 of 673, by konc

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Basically the cursor is yours, this is what I believe irritates most people. I don't like many things on the site, but I didn't design it and it's not my choice. The cursor on the other hand is something I'm setting on my computer and to be honest most sites respect it. Hey I want my penis-shaped cursor back 😀

Reply 495 of 673, by bjwil1991

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Looks like the design changed where everything is more compact, even with the text size set to small. Looking pretty good so far.

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Reply 496 of 673, by dionb

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Snover wrote on 2020-01-17, 20:11:

[...]

dionb wrote on 2020-01-04, 00:00:

Afraid no different. Here's two screenshots, there's absolutely no difference in empty space between normal vs small line spacing, so much that even on my 1440p screen the index takes up over two full screens (where it previously comfortably fit on one):

Oh. I thought you were talking about the post text, not the topic lists. I’ve put that on my list to check.

Looks like you've done more than check:

Vogons_line_spacing_new.png
Filename
Vogons_line_spacing_new.png
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105.64 KiB
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212 views
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CC-BY-4.0

It's suddenly started looking *much* better on my bigger screens. Thank you 😀

Reply 498 of 673, by gdjacobs

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Dominus wrote on 2020-01-22, 09:07:
I agree that it is bad form to hijack the cursor, IMO. But you are blowing this completely out of proportion and using people wi […]
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I agree that it is bad form to hijack the cursor, IMO.
But you are blowing this completely out of proportion and using people with disabilities as scapegoats for your own agenda.
Handling the cursor IS on Snover's list. So please back off and calm down.
Pushing the button again and again won't make an elevator go faster. And throwing insults at Snover is definitely not going to make HIM go faster.

I don't have any skin in the game, one way or the other. I didn't even notice the cursor change until it was brought up in the forum. However, if custom cursors are causing accessibility problems, that's definitely a feature that should be disabled. I'm glad Snover is on it.

It can always be re-enabled later if a workaround can be designed, or maybe a toggle can be added to user settings down the road.

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